Look, I was never "attacking" anybody today. If I wanted to attack Cait, then I would have called her something like "Satan's whore" or "dyke." Remember that one from the dynamic duo of Glen and Al? No, I was trying to make my points in a robust fashion. If I personally offended anybody, then I beg your pardon. And I'm not pulling up any quotes out of context, I'm showing you the context. That's what she said. Anyway, let's just drop it. I'm sorry I brought it up. It's just that in my opinion, by referring to them as a "community" one basically lends that cult a legitimacy that they do not deserve. But I understand the reasoning behind it.

The Dude Abides!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 07:08AM by zeuszor.

It's just that I try and make my posts as short and to the point as possible. Sometime people perceive this style as blunt, or rude, and I understand. Such is not my intention. In person, I would present much differently; I would be much less direct in my manner of presenting my message, and much more reticent. In these forums, though, I aim for maximum communication with minimum verbiage. Today I was not "attacking" Cait.

Dear Cait,

Thank you for the corrections in relations to the depth of Glenn's involvement with the JC's....I was only aware of a comment that he had made sometime ago in one of his own postings, concerning a meeting with McKay...and I have obviously not kept up to date with his involvement since that time.... yes it sounds very much like he was on "close terms" with them, however that would not seem to invalidate my previous remarks that:

Glenn takes McKays word as "gospel truth"

and that he RARELY stands up against them (the vast majority of his postings(say 80-90% if not higher), concuring with then and "egging them on")

and that he ridicules the experiences of those who were defrauded by McKay....

Personally, I would support the position of Cait, that "Glenn" and others of his ilk, should still be free to contribute to this forum .... however I doubt that Glenn, really is a "champion" of more reasonable debate and I have to say that I also doubt that he has "frequently taken a stand against David".....

....that it is a relativistic impression, that occurs only because there is ABSOLUTELY NO DISSENT on the JC forum and hence on the odd occasion that Glenn has spoken up, it appears that he is a "voice of reason", "frequently speaking out"....when I would suggest that that not to be the case, overall.

Glenn was briefly posting on the xjcs,jcs site......that record still exists(it is unclear what still "exists" or will continue to be allowed to "exist" on the JC site) could you provide, a couple of examples, Cait of something remotely edifying that Glenn posted there....all I can recall where the subtle and not so subtle attempts to discredit the testimony of Davids' critics....perhaps I missed something...

Your impression of Glenn, Cait, is more a reflection of your own underlying "goodness" (trying to be positive and look for the best in something...for which I credit you), than I suspect it is of any major "goodness" in Glenn.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2010 09:02AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Oh, pardon me.....I will certainly acknowledge that Glenns' observations about Littlerose (which clearly antagonized David) were obviously stated by him, in the (forlorn!) hope of persuading McKay to "see reason".....

I didn't know Glenn was so close to them either.....wonder what has kept him from joining up except that deep down he KNOWS that it would be a life of misery at some point. I don't have any idea why he wants to be Dave's patsy but I guess it's the old needing affirmation thing. As Malcolm pointed out yesterday there are a multitude of legitimate groups and communities that would love volunteers but perhaps Glenn only really wants to talk instead of do. Up to him of course.

I hope the forums can all be places of support. Brian led me to the ex site after my first go round with Dave when I felt so shocked and so very hurt to be treated like I was. I found awesome support at the ex site and appreciate the work of those who take the time to operate it. The person who operates the site has been maligned something fierce but he does what he feels is right for the greater good, he doesn't back off and just feel content that his own situation is better now. There were fallings out between Brian and I but there has been healing and I'm glad of that. Brian has done lots of research and has recorded a great deal of valuable insights on the Jesus Christian's Visual Archives. The way that Dave alters FACTS shows us how important it is to have everything preserved so that there can be no denial as is Dave's want to do. I know Brian means well and has suffered as a scapegoat. I have been guilty of blaming him for things that I now believe DID come from another source who wanted to blacken Brian's name and to hurt me at the same time. This is not just my opinion, it was proven to me by a trusted person who located the exact unheard of vile terms used against me are posted elsewhere on the internet and the author signed his name to them so I believe he was the source and Brian only maybe repeated things but was not the author of the lies and ugliness. Anyway it is past and all is forgiven on all sides with Brian and I.

Malcolm has been invaluable as far as posting information based on his true life experiences and that will do a great deal to educate innocent new comers. Mal has a big and forgiving heart when someone genuinely apologizes to him. I wronged him, verbally mocking and bashing him when we didn't agree and that was cruel and heartless of me and no excuse holds. I was VERY unchristian and unkind. Mal forgave me without hesitation and I count him as a friend. What a contrast to Dave McKay who holds grudges and demands groveling, Mal forgave with ease and caused me no worse shame than I felt.

The people at the ex site do what they can to share their own personal experiences and Kevin McKay will always be a hero to me as he too could have walked away and likely had some better relationship with Dave but because Kevin is a man of principle, he sacrificed that comfort and has stood up and spoke the truth at a heavy cost to him. Look how he has been treated! Called the DEVIL by his own dad???? For buying some jc lads a meal? He's been libeled horribly by his own father. He doesn't need any flak from anyone else and he doesn't owe any explanations either. I maintain he has suffered plenty and he never fails to stand up when he sees someone being bullied or attacked and he is an honest man. Craig and Tony have been lied about and vilified and they continue to stand tall. All the ex members joined the group with high ideals and it's not their faults that Dave morphed into something negative. It's by all the brave heroic ex members speaking out, that new victims will hopefully be prevented from making a HUGE mistake of getting mixed up with the jc's. We can also count on Dave to spit on newcomers pretty quickly as he did with Apollo and thus send another person away from the cult.

Rick Ross deserves credit for his efforts and for maintaining a safe forum for people to talk. He's had his personal life attacked too yet he keeps on fighting against oppression and abuses. Blackhat has been treated shamefully when it seems she was actually open to trying to understand the whole jc concept.

Families like Nick and Cait have been kind, brave and supportive too and we need to appreciate that every ex member, every family member of a current or ex jc and every person visiting the jc forum COULD have simply walked away after their negative experience with McKay but instead they have chosen to put them selves out there and expose themselves to the abuses and ridicule of people like McKay and his pit bull of the week. The Johnson family has been victimized over and over, their apologies rejected as not good enough yet they persevere trying to communicate with their boy who hides behind McKay and let's himself be dangled as bait to extort co-operation from his own parents. God bless them for refusing to take that bait and meet McKay and for refusing to lie about Rick Ross even though they will be "punished" by Joe.

There is strength in numbers and in unity we are far more likely to be deemed credible by outsiders looking in. There should be room for everyone, support for everyone and there should be all the kindness, compassion, forgiveness and understanding among us, if nothing else but to tweek Dave's conscience and cause him to self examine why his cult is shrinking and why he is despised by so many---- he offers NONE of these mercies to anyone and his treatment of ALL people is finally coming down upon his head as people flee his grasp and he is left with playing simpleminded games with the likes of little rose.

I do love you all in the Christian sense. I pray we can all come together and work together as Dave continues to pitch sulks and try to get some reactions with his latest anti climatic scam of disbanding. Whatever next?

Now I wonder if the current members would want to join another group.....bloody hell some of them have gotten very mean....I find it hard to believe they were all so cold and negative when they joined. I can see Joe is just trying to be a Dave knock off and it looks sad on a boy. Look at the way he speaks to his parents online.....I swear to God Dave is writing sometimes...it's THAT offensive. I also wonder whatever other group could stomach the current personalities that have developed under Dave's tutelage. I mean they don't play well with others so I think rehoming any malcontents of Dave's will be hard.

Agur

Hmmm...well in some way they ARE joining another group when the opt to go out of their own (Roland, Sue and Danny), although I suspect that it largely just a "David McKay" less Jesus Christians variant, which would still have a lot of the administrative justice issues that we have highlighted in the current JC's (no proprietory rights, no joint bank accounts, no financial transparency or independent auditing)...

I would actually suspect that the current membership are all too "damaged" as individuals, to be able to even conceive of a non-Jesus Christian universe for themselves, and that as Zeuszor has observed they have become routinely hostile and "predatory" individuals in order to be able to "survive" in the JC's....they would all need substantial time for recovery now....

Yes....however,

I was thinking more of those still external to the group but attracted to "work for love/live by faith" sugar coating, packaging the JC cyanide capsule....

Yes, Kevin has consistently spoken up over the years, at at great deal of personal cost to him, when he only had to "shut up", in order for "friendly" Dave to magically appear on the horizon....(looking for a free meal and board?). He (and Apostate and Tony) deserve to be acknowledged for this.

The (...(rubs his eyes)..."yawn"...!) disbanding stunt, that is dragging on at the moment, may or may not be McKays "last hurrah"....however the "last hurrah" IS certainly on the way....we need to be looking "post-McKay" now.

How long ago did McKay decide to split the cult into smaller groups of 2-3 people?

Do you think McKay felt by splitting into several smaller groups they would appeal to a wider audience?

Was there ever a time when all 20-30 of them travelled around together as one group?

It must be a nightmare if you're in a small group of 2-3 guys. I'm guessing they're not allowed outside relationships so if there's no females in your group then what chance do you ever have of finding a partner? I mean surely the likes of Joe and Alf would at some point in the future like to find a partner and maybe even have kids. Roland had a wife and son so it's obviously allowed. Are there some guys like Reinhard for example who have been in the group for years without ever having any sort of female attention? It's not very appealing for potential members.

I just wonder if McKay maybe feels enough is enough. It may be time to rebrand the cult as one travelling 'community' (no offence Brian). One last throw of the dice if you will! The cult is probably at it's lowest numbers for years and the small groups obviously hasn't helped their case. McKay's not getting any younger and he may feel this is his one last chance to really rebuild this faltering cult..

Hi Everyone,

I seldom participate on this forum for personal reasons but I am very impressed with the love and resilience of every distinct personality. Dave McKay has been guilty of hate, deception and a litany of offensive behaviors. Now as there group has dispersed we can ban together to educate people about destructive groups that use the bible to enslave the innocents. We have all been negatively impacted by this monster. However, I often think about ways to benefit from such a heinous creature. Now he is hiding like the coward that he is. He's running like the criminal that he is.

We must remain vigilant and alert because although Dave has vanished off the scene he continues to be a threat to society. The few members that have been in servitude to Dave have yet to be accounted for. They will need lots of support and assistance, if they have indeed left the group. However, if they have gone underground with Dave they are still his subjects.

Despite, the horrors of Dave McKay I must say that so many of you have grown in character. We must continue to reach out to one another with love and respect. Many of you
are guilty of evil acts but you have turned from them. Perhaps Dave and his followers will make the necessary changes before it's too late.

Who can tell what good can come from all of this?