Quote
Apollo
I don't know how anyone can have the slightest bit of sympathy for Dave. He himself is constantly going on about how people should be held accountable for their own actions. There's so many negative aspects of the Jesus Christians but certainly the main one for me is how they target naive teenagers and completely destroy any relationaship they have with their parents. That alone is enough for me to have absolutely no sympathy for this man. He has shattered far too many lives. Sheila Johnson is just one mother in a very long line whose lives have been turned upside down by Dave and his cult. This man goes out his way to build divisions between children and their parents, he almost thrives on it.

Me neither, I don't know how anybody can look at "the bright side" of DM. Apollo, I'd love for you to you register at XJCs and ask them about some of these things. Let's see what kind of answers they give you. After all, they welcome free discussion there and I am certain that they'd be glad to field all of your queries. Do you know their address? If not, here it is:

[jcs.xjcs.org]

It'll take some time for the admin to approve you, but it'd be good for you to interact with that crew if you want to involve yourself in the broader campaign, so to speak.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2010 05:45AM by zeuszor.

Zeuszor i don't want to get involved in any grievances you have with the other site. I'm quite happy to post on here.

Any queiries i've had regarding the group have always been sufficiently answered on here. You should maybe consider joining the other site yourself if you're interested to find out their opinions on such matters.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2010 05:56AM by Apollo.

Oh I would, but I'm banned from there over some mistakes that I'd made. Anyway, that's history. I just thought that the forum over there might be worth it for you to get involved in.

I previously considered joining and was told i would be accepted but i've decided to decline. I just feel there's other issues over there. There's alot of emotional ties due to family reasons. I feel that site is best left to ex members and people who have family ties to the group, that's just my opinion. For people like myself whose only experience of the group is what we've encountered online then i feel this forum is better suited.

Yes, you are probably right.

Both forums have their good points and people can post in both or just one as they please. There shouldn't be anger at anyone as a result. To give into bickering only pleases Dave McKay who loves to talk about "infighting" between the forums and I don't really see that as much as just different ways of expressing thoughts. To some people, I am annoying with my long posts, to other people profanity upsets them, to others they feel slighted if someone disagrees with their thought and they take it as a put down.

Just recently Blackhat explained the cultural differences in the term "raving" showing how it can be either meant as positive or negative and we can all see how hard feelings can occur if there is a misunderstanding in terms.

I think every single person who posts must post because they CARE for some decent reason. No one is going to stay posting too long over just being personally peeved off. Many care that no other people are sucked in.....others have people in that they want out.....others know the inner workings and are sharing and explaining to people who might not have any idea how bad it was to live under Dave's rule. Others offer valuable research data and go to the trouble of analyzing and triple checking facts. Some people are very analytical and others more emotional. Some days I want to really BLAST Dave over issues and fights he picks and other days, yes I do find him PITIFUL and that is NOT to say I have sympathy for him, unless it's the sympathy one would feel for a rattlesnake. I guess you are sorry they bite everyone for no good reason and spend their time belly crawling but it doesn't mean you want to hug the snake....it means you might not go out of your way to run it over....you would just avoid personal contact with it like the plague, you'd shoo others to safety and no matter how many times the snake told you he's a kitten, you'd remember the bites you had witnessed and you'd wait to see. Point being, I might not always use the right words but I don't feel "sympathy" for Dave but I also still know he's someone to God. Of almost anyone I know Dave DESERVES the chance to make right with people. Not with me....but with people he has REALLY hurt like his members, ex members and his family and other families.

Can't we all just let people post in the way they see fit and I include myself in that. I just finished putting my foot in my mouth by telling someone how to post and I see I was wrong to judge them as they have their reasons and they are valid reasons however when I did it, it was not to sympathize with Dave, it was to protect and love my friend as I didn't like for them, whom I know to be a good person to get dragged down. My intention was good but I was wrong. I think we do a pretty good job on all sites of letting people express themselves as there is only one person who wants to play "BossMan" and right now, we don't know if little rose has him stowed in some back closet or if he's run off to save the COG flirty fisher people or for all we know he's playing Twister on a luxury cruise ship. He could be in a cave somewhere hiding......

I love you all and I respect your feelings and your rights to express them as YOU see fit.

PS Some one needs to let Glenn know he has duct tape on his forehead......*grin*

I've got my own personal reasons for not wanting to post on the other forum but i certainly don't have a problem with anyone who does. People are free to post what they want (within reason) where they want, that's just one of the luxuries of not being in a cult. :-)

Good minds think alike Agur. I was literally just about to make a post regarding Glenn believe it not. What is his situation, is he a current or former member and what the hell is that on his head? i thought it was a tattoo but surely not! lol

It's duct tape with writing on it. I can make out the first 2 numbers............. 6.................. 6............. and then I think it says--------- 3.5.....? Weird. Always a bridesmaid never a bride I guess. OH JOKING JOKING.....

Its some stunt of his to show his solidarity to the jc's......they stuck barcodes on their heads at some point or something.....to make a statement about blah blah blah.

Here's another thought on Glenn.....maybe it says "Left Behind"..................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2010 12:13PM by Agur.

Dear Apollo,

Glen is not a former member, however on the basis of a single meeting with McKay in the flesh, he has decided that David is a "genuine and caring individual" who has been "unfairly maligned" by his "ignoble critics"...(myself for example)....hence he (voyeuristically?) haunts the JC site, where he expresses "solidarity" with David and the other JC's, in the postings he makes...for which he is "recognized"....!

...my own take on the matter, is that Glenn is someone whose life lacks a great deal of "personal affirmation" which like Littlerose, makes him vulnerable to McKay who has "bought" Glenn with the "loving acceptance" that he would otherwise lack. McKay is aware that Glenn lacks what it takes to become a full member of his cult, but for relatively little trouble on McKay's part, Glenn has his "uses"....(e.g. providing much needed "legitimacy" for Mckay's cult from a "disinterested third party"). I acknowledge that on rare occasions Glenn HAS briefly questioned McKays' dissembling....but;


Glenn has never met any of McKays critics, in person

Glenn has (largely) never gone to the the trouble to verify whatever version of "reality" McKay presents to him.

Glenn has frequently ridiculed those who suffered years of servitude under McKay.


Now that the JC website is down, I guess we should really forward the names of some of the other cult leaders on this forum (Mr Chris Butler for example), and Glenn can then alternatively "contribute" to another site altogether, where he can claim that those who have been defrauded in the "Science of Identity" scam, are really just "losers" who have jealously libelled the good Mr Butler....and be "patted" on the head for it!

Very well explained and aptly expressed Mal.
The jc site being down is going to cause some of the poor lost souls that haunted it, to look for "help" elsewhere. Almost perfect victims in many ways as what you say is so true, they need affirmation....we all look for that but most of us get that in our personal lives through work, church, family, friends etc but not everyone has those resources so they look elsewhere. I'm not mocking that. Mind you some who don't have real people in their lives have likely driven the people away with their personality disorders but still they should not be used and abused especially by someone who holds himself out as a Christ-like leader. Sadly a few of those who looked at McKay's "friendly" site, didn't content themselves with just joining in the discussions there, they had to come at the rest of us like pit bulls on the attack. Mal is right...they lack whatever it takes to join but they felt good being a part of "something" controversial or radical (to them) and they soon learned that the way to get attention over there is to be ON SIDE with the MASTER. To fight his battles. To put him on a pedestal. To NEVER question him or hold him accountable for his lies or behaviors or else you will be shunned.....and you must crawl back like a beaten dog and lick his hand to get "accepted" again......a vicious cycle repeated over and over and LOOK where it took some people....Look at Kirstie who said publicly that DAVE had driven her to thoughts of taking her own life....now why was that? Because he would be kind, then vicious, kind then vicious, he would be "father" then devil. Until she broke. And when she did break...she ended up on the ex site and got awesome support and kindness only to turn on us and run back to Dave, "blaming" us for her problems when if you looked at the jc site or the posts she made on the jc site anyone would see that SHE sought US out and we only offered the normal kindness you would to anyone who felt like she did and had taken the public abuse that we all saw visited on her by her GOOD JC FRIENDS ALL LED BY DAVE....Psalms 36, Verses 1-4 The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes. For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful. The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good. He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil.

That describes the man these peripheral people have supported who let them down time and time again.


This is a clip from what Kirstie posted under her own name on the ex site. Read in and see if you don’t feel her agony….how could ANY so called CHRISTIANS turn their back on this hurting soul???? Or WORSE keep hurting her?????? By the way, her great friend was SUE the same person who was MY GREAT FRIEND, who happily frog marched me along and DROPPED me in the snake pit when DAVE attacked me.

Here are Kristie’s words:
This is what she said to Dave-

“You serve no purpose in my life and if i continue a relationship with you i have no doubt that i will end up ending my life. I have thought about it over the last couple of weeks. Yes you pushed me that far Dave! “

This is what she posted on the ex site:

I have just had Dave come on-line to me and start talking to me.

I just cannot take it any more. He just keeps wanting to hurt me. I tried to speak to Sue about it just now and told her that i feel Dave is bullying me she would not listen to me and told me that i was "murmering" about Dave. I explained that i was not that i was just telling her how he and her were making me feel. Why do they keep doing this to me? My head hurts so much, they are making it so bad. Please someone help me. I cant take thier bullying an longer. Its hurting me so much. Its breaking my heart. I have asked them to leave me alone. But then Dave comes on line to talk to me again! I dont know how he knew i was on-line because i thought i had blocked him. Dave if you ae reading this... please just STOP! I dont want anything to do with you or any of the Jesus Christians. Please stop hurting me! You are pushing me too far!

Heartbreaking-----you can see the whole ugly thing here----including the poison discussions Dave had with her. [jcs.xjcs.org]

EVERYONE at the ex site supported her and had words of encouragement……

Kevin said :
Dear Kirsty,

I feel awful for you and am sorry that my father won't respect your desire to cease communication.

My experience has been that my father after hurting someone and cutting them adrift, likes to reel them back in for some more of the same and unfortunately you can't expect him to do the right thing for you. Dave is interested in Dave and you need to do the right thing for you……….

Apostate said:
……During my difficult times of mental anguish in the early days I found the music of John Michael Talbot’s “Come to the quiet” (vocal or instrumental) if you can get your hands on it to be soothing, quickly taking me to a place of peace. Giving yourself some mediation/prayer time will work wonders for you. Dave is very good at pulling people away from their spiritual communion or things that strengthen. The fact is, you can walk away from Dave. He really does have no power whatsoever apart from what he cons out of people through using their fear of displeasing the object of their worship. I will stop here for now, so that I do not add to your troubles. Take care and enjoy the pommy summer.

Blackhat, Tony Cait…everyone I think offered words of support but still after all that Kirstie went back there to be mistreated some more. THAT was the person I was speaking of who had mentioned ending her life…..that insipid little rose “decided” it was her I was speaking of when I mentioned this case and she is using THAT WRONG ASSUMPTION for her “blob” that is landing her in court. This woman looks for trouble and inserts herself in situations DESPERATELY wanting to be “important” so Dave used her and still uses her to announce that the jc have disbanded. She actually doesn't even KNOW much of the past history but she makes her insane reactions based on whatever Dave has told her despite the fact, it's all there for the reading but she would prefer to just lash out and be WRONG again. How important she must have felt sharing this big news……but what she failed to “get” is that few if any would believe her if she said the sky is blue…? I’d double check the fact myself and that’s why I suspect this whole disbanding is some stupid stunt or at best a regrouping and maybe a new name to avoid all the past bad press---declaring bankruptcy----moral bankruptcy in the case of the cult leaders.

But people like Kirstie, Glenn and Al are just ripe for the picking and then they do things, in their need to be accepted, they commit such ugliness on others that “we” are wary of them and just can’t be friends because you can’t trust them. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone hurts people but when a good person does this, they apologize, they don’t make excuses and they feel HONESTLY BAD inside themselves. It shows in their ways after they have apologized and trust and friendship are rebuilt in time. But some people won’t apologize, people like little rose just blame others for “making” them act crazy. So like Dave, they rewrite history to show themselves in a better light but the forums stand, everything is documented so those investigating can easily see who said what. Thank God.


But THAT'S why there is an issue with some of the hangers on to the jc’s.....not because they were people looking for something....wanting to be a part of something good....BUT McKay, in his present form, is NOT good for anyone not even good for himself as he has damaged his own name and he has offended God in so many ways.....and he used these searching and sometimes sad souls to attack McKay critics in ways HE himself could not be seen to do and they let him use them even after they each had their own bust ups with him…they let him use them again and again- cheerfully. He could not risk losing what "face" he still has (doubtfully much) but he also would not risk his cults $$$ as people DO sue. People DO take legal action against the worst slanderers and libelers...just ask little rose. The things she has done have now caused lawyers from 2 countries and 2 USA states to be involved in her messes and this is confirmed as BigPigWeeds mentioned he/she had some communications over the matter so this is not just my say so or some bluff. I know of 3 professionals that she called at their offices and went on tirades against just because she found they knew someone she had one of her raging vendettas against. Acting as Dave's hitman will prove to be costly and thankless, going after people in completely unacceptable insane ways, making phone calls, sending videos to their job, calling associates, sending emails, adding innocent people’s names to her vicious videos so now she is in a world of trouble and Big Man McKay is "gone" from the internet but surely still in touch with little rose otherwise she would turn on him again and HE NEEDS HER....He doesn't LIKE HER AND HE SURELY DOESN'T RESPECT HER. He has labeled her a mentally unstable, mentally ill but he sure is willing to use her and give her the much needed "atta girls" when she continues to try to hurt people HE doesn't like. Right now I am sure her days are spent adding to her "blob" and also collecting and forwarding anything said on the critics forums, to her Master McKay so she can be "in"---you know he will keep using her as long as she is willing and when someone has the kind of hatred in them that she has shown--the potential for the most crazy and low down malicious attacking, she will use her so called alliance with the jc's to vent on the world...if it was not the jc's she would be back attacking Home Depot, Tupperware or eBay with the same ferocity so her words are really quite meaningless but she is not going to be allowed to libel people just because she is off the rails..I'm GLAD someone else is standing up to her legally...I wonder where McKay will be when she ends up in court? Will he end up on the visitors list once the cases are decided? Because the kind of things she is guilty of doing to people are going to land her in one of two places and neither is on a cruise ship sailing off with Dave and the jc's.

And McKay is just laughing and laughing and laughing.......when they are left in worse shape than they were when they came looking for "love"..........the shame is that they hurt people so badly that other decent human beings CANNOT "love" them after their attacks....so as a result they become filled with MORE HATRED MORE LOATHING for society, the society they feel has rejected them and mistreated them and then they become the PERFECT VICTIMS for some depraved cult leader. And the cycle will happen all over again.....and that is so so so sad. THAT is something cult leaders are going to have to answer for someday.....even if only to God who will ask them why they chose to hurt and use and violate and poison a child of His like this?

McKay COULD have likely had an awesome outreach mission to hurting souls via the internet but like all the trust placed in him, he was UNWORTHY of the trust and he ABUSED the chance he was given.

When you hurt someone’s child, you risk life and limb because it’s inside every creature to protect their children with every fiber of their being……a mother bear will kill a human for simply standing between her cubs and her…. A tiny female robin will dive bomb a person who she feels is too near her little nest of babies---she might not really stand a chance against the big human but she won’t back down-she will try with unrivaled fury and with passion even though it’s only a perceived threat-she takes no chances with her little ones…… a human mother will lose her own life to save her child who is in the way of a speeding car…..it’s in every creature God made to protect their own….I believe it’s in us from God. He is a God that loves His children with a mighty and powerful love, He knows their frailties and their weaknesses and their hearts desires……perish forbid someone deliberately hurt His children and to do so in His name must infuriate God so I believe cult leaders who knowingly use, abuse, hurt and damage God’s children are going to have HELL to pay on judgment day!