You may well be right Zeuszor, although David will likely find life without a cult of his very own to boast of, to himself, difficult to take for long...

I still suspect some strategy of "crisis" perpetuation, though.... David would have been aware of the dissatisfaction brewing against in the ranks, and that even with the limited access to the world external to the JC's, that is permitted the membership of the JC's, he was coming off a distinct "second"(to Peter Strong, or Apollo or in light of his beloved Littlerose's "contributions" to their site).....hence David engineers a "tribulation crisis"....the JC's simply go underground(cease the most public of their activities) , and pretend that they are disbanding, .... David uses the time to focus on reconsolidating his "legitimacy".....with the membership EVEN MORE isolated from any external contact that might give them cause to question McKay.

They will then reappear at a suitable moment (even if re branded ever so slightly), with McKay once more wielding unquestioned authority.

McKay simply grasping for power yet again, is as likely an explanation, I suspect,.....as any nonsense that they may have employed to shake off "Littlerose" is hardly credible unless authenticated elsewhere....

Their forum is still up....it can be "re-activated" any time, once McKay, has shored up his leadership sufficiently..... Where is the server for the JC website? The UK is the ISP address isn't it? Their site states that it was last updated on November the 3rd.....that's only three days ago!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2010 09:43PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Quote
zeuszor
In reality, they did really not disband, they merely reorganized in a more sophisticated manner and were underground for a while. But not all members knew this, some really were led to believe that the COG had broken up; the supposed disbanding was also a pretext for purging the group of certain members, but getting them to leave on peaceful terms with no potential conflict.

This could be some RNR type of thing in which they are "disbanding" as a strategic pretext so that they might reorganize and try and maintain a lower public profile, but my gut tells me that DM is trying to drive his camper off into some golden sunset through ditching the cult and attempting to live the life of what we Americans would call a "snowbird," that is, a retiree who travels the country with the seasons, from location to location. Take the money and run, huh David?

[www.youtube.com]

Later, I'll rewrite this song and make it about the McKays. For now though, I have homework to do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2010 12:21AM by zeuszor.

Mal said:hence David engineers a "tribulation crisis"....the JC's simply go underground(cease the most public of their activities) , and pretend that they are disbanding, .... David uses the time to focus on reconsolidating his "legitimacy".....with the membership EVEN MORE isolated from any external contact that might give them cause to question McKay.

They will then reappear at a suitable moment (even if re branded ever so slightly), with McKay once more wielding unquestioned authority.

This could be very true.

I also agree little rose was not important enough for them to bother going to all this to simply dump her. She could easily be banned and be done with it. No, this has nothing to do with her craziness. *speaking of which, I know her blog was looked at already by authorities as she is really close to the line of issuing physical threats now with her Clint Eastwood "make my day comments"....it seems she is wanting to be arrested...perhaps this is some cry for help?* But to Dave little rose is utterly insignificant as he doesn't need her now and since all along, he labeled her as mentally ill so it's not like she didn't know that her opinions and ravings didn't hold much water with them. She just needed a place to vent her rage at the world and now she has her "blob" of crap....I don't think she even cares that no one will be reading her rages except people who take legal action against her. I find it so pathetic that she claims she started her "blob" because we were talking about HER being a suicide risk....she quotes where I mentioned about someone else who had said Dave was driving them to suicide.....I had quoted where the person had said this and of course this nutjob self important sap decided I was talking about her when all she needed to do was to connect the dots and discover the post I referred to was made by KIRSTIE and it was well discussed all over the place.....so the fool actually started a blog based on her own stupid mistakes again.....just like her jumping on the wrong person and naming the music therapist---another "Oooopsie".....as little rose labeled her hideous libelous assault. Oooopsie.....maybe that's a good name for the next budgie....I really do not know how that woman sleeps at night and isn't just ashamed of herself over all her mistakes that she NEVER corrects.

The one ridiculous thing that comes out of her naming the wrong Susan Summers is that now she is trying pathetically to convince her readership (3) that there are so many people with the same name as her (haha ya right) that she is not the freakish one...she is the good one and she has been tarred because she has the same name as these weirdos......LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL......so so so pathetic and desperate as once you read 3 lines of her "blob" it's clear she is the nutcase who's smut is all over the internet. Almost hilarious....I wonder if McLean's is holding a room?

I am hopeful that the genuine ex jc's are safe, warm and fed and that they all just go their seperate ways, reconnect with their families and not get into some crazy hiding out scheme......get out into the world and enjoy life and people.....you can preach if you want but don't get under the thumb of another cult leader.

Anyway I think your post was good Mal and bears thinking about.

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
Their site states that it was last updated on November the 3rd.....that's only three days ago!

yes, and now the Introduce Yourself thread is empty. I wonder why? Are the threads going to be cleared of content one by one?

Although, I note a kind of slow dissolve. One wondered whether the luxury cruise might have been a last hurrah for a group in steady decline. If they enjoyed the close company on the ship, it didn't last long afterwards, with everyone breaking up into isolated teams to rough it on the streets. Perhaps this just reflects the fact that people are more comfortable working in smaller teams, and the idea of a community operating as one big happy family does not always live up to that expectation.

The appointment of Joe and Alf as joint group leaders did not seem to alter Dave still behaving as the executive, although there seemed to be a tendency toward hiving off activities, with Dave viewing the forum as his "little project". The announcement that Rols and Sue were returning to the UK to work on their own formalised the fact that they are happier when they are not working under Dave's direction. Jayme and Jeremy soon followed suite. The newsletter made it sound like even the two man team of Ross and Barry was split for a while with Barry squatting in an abandoned house.

The decision to not apply for new passports would mean the teams would become isolated in their countries of origin. And the move toward ending their use of money altogether would effectively end their dependency on Dave's literature as the core of their activity.

Good points, very good points. Very well put.

"Slow dissolve," I like that. It's true. Their numbers had dropped by (at least) about half over the last four years or so.

If they're going to try and use less cash, then why sell the books?

Without passports, a lot of their activities would have been curtailed. But, I'll bet you that DM and his consort will use theirs anyway.

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
You may well be right Zeuszor, although David will likely find life without a cult of his very own to boast of, to himself, difficult to take for long...

I still suspect some strategy of "crisis" perpetuation, though.... David would have been aware of the dissatisfaction brewing against in the ranks, and that even with the limited access to the world external to the JC's, that is permitted the membership of the JC's, he was coming off a distinct "second"(to Peter Strong, or Apollo or in light of his beloved Littlerose's "contributions" to their site).....hence David engineers a "tribulation crisis"....the JC's simply go underground(cease the most public of their activities) , and pretend that they are disbanding, .... David uses the time to focus on reconsolidating his "legitimacy".....with the membership EVEN MORE isolated from any external contact that might give them cause to question McKay.

They will then reappear at a suitable moment (even if re branded ever so slightly), with McKay once more wielding unquestioned authority.

McKay simply grasping for power yet again, is as likely an explanation, I suspect,.....as any nonsense that they may have employed to shake off "Littlerose" is hardly credible unless authenticated elsewhere....

Their forum is still up....it can be "re-activated" any time, once McKay, has shored up his leadership sufficiently..... Where is the server for the JC website? The UK is the ISP address isn't it? Their site states that it was last updated on November the 3rd.....that's only three days ago!

After all, the JCs themselves have communicated nothing on the matter. And why not do it themselves, for that matter? Why would they leave it up to somebody like her, to tell the world that the JCs have disbanded? This makes little sense.

It's hard to think of him living like David the Snowbird Pensioner, inactive and without a group of some kind around him for the first time in many years. This has to be some kind of pretext, or else a fiction. We'll see.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2010 06:52AM by zeuszor.

Malcolm I think you have said a mouthful in your post.

Interesting Cait that you mention some posts are disappearing....why on earth would those innocent introduction ones be any of concern???? Good heavens....we need Agatha Christie. I am just very hesitant to bank on any announcement made by little rose because we all know what a fool she is and how she gets things so twisted and muddled....I am not sure if that is just because she is scrambled in her thinking or she just lies for fun but I would like to get some form of confirmation from someone reliable before I feel too pleased to think the cult is over.

I do wish every member peace but my husband has pointed out to me that it will take more than a "disbanding" to get this type of mentality to change in someone. This is where someone like Rick Ross comes in I assume.

I'm not an expert my any means on how deprogramming works etc except I have seen proof it does work. If someone that was formerly a cult member reaches out for help, I expect there is help to get them through the hard parts of getting back into society. The hard part I expect would be getting them to ever trust anyone who could help them since they have been fed so much about "cult busters". It would be awesome if some ex members got back in touch with their families and perhaps the families would be willing to assist in arranging such help when the member is ready. I feel it could be key to them healing.

Mal do you mind my asking if you did it alone or if you had the assistance of a councilor? If that is too personal, forgive me and ignore me. I admire those who have the guts to ask for help and I admire those who found ways to heal alone. Real heroes in my books. Hats off to those who help ex members too. I am sure much good has been done and lives have been saved. Regardless of where we all stand on religion etc every life is worthy and precious and every person deserves to have peace and to be FREE to do as they please even if we don't agree with them or want to do the same thing.

I'm so hopeful something GOOD is on the way for the ex members but I am also a little worried that there is more to this whole thing than I am thinking.....any updates or confirmations of news would be great.

Thanks all for your thoughtful input!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2010 07:26AM by Agur.

You was what?

(Disregard above. Agur changed post.)

No credible professional calls what they do "deprogramming" anymore. That's a pretty antiquated term, dating to the '70s. Those in the field typically refer to their work as "intervention" or "exit counseling."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2010 07:58AM by zeuszor.

Dear Agur,

Zeuszor may well disagree with me, however I believe the most helpful "environment" for recovery is the long term "neutral" company of those engaged in a "cause" with which the former cult member can identify, and in company that is UNAWARE of the previous cult environment. "Exit counselling" I personally believe has minimal benefit for the actual former cult member, (however I imagine it is of considerable benefit for friends and family)....

Once out of a cult, someone needs to be able to find the "space" to be able to recover their personality. Every encounter with "supporting family and friends" reminds them, of the behaviour they once engaged in and of which they are now secretly ashamed....it's an unavoidable difficulty and yes one needs to "re-engage" with family and friends, however it's a traumatic process of gradually overcoming the guilt and shame, anyone would feel due to your former life....

It is possible to "relax" with new acquaintances, particularly those with whom someone might share some goals of "activism" (the environment, world peace, feeding the starving millions, etc).....individuals frequently join cults with a lot of initial idealism (in my opinion)....the idealism just needs to be "channelled" into healthy pursuits...hour and hours of sad brooding, alone in a room, are still to an extent probably unavoidable, but to avoid a completely downward cycle of depression...some external "socialization" is crucial in my opinion, where I am free to reinvent myself...

There is a confusing turmoil of feelings that repetitively assail one,

Elation - to be out,
Sense of bereavement - having just lost all your former "family"
Isolation - the world "threatens" the faith you hold, and it's just you against the rest of society now,
Guilt - at the behaviour you once engaged in and justified to yourself


Finally, a lot of individuals escape cults, due to "collateral discordance" (they haven't actually come to the conclusion that the teachings were in any way mistaken, they simply "fell out" with the leader or someone powerful, or "circumstances" led to their departure)....hence they depart with all the ideological underpinnings that they held while in the cult....it takes some years to "reorientate" your personal universe, with paradigms that are not subliminally the paradigms of the "cult"....certainly I remember clearly thinking for years, once outside the JC's that it was society who was "sick" not me, and I would have refused to countenance any nature of "exit counselling" whatsoever....in someways I still think as much!

I'm not a "credible professional" zeusie....I'm an incredible cookie maker.....;) Don't be a nitpicker.

Anyway sorry no offense made with my term. I thought it was the term used. Think I might have heard the jc's use it anyway sorry I meant no offense.

Oh the "You was" was an error, I was cutting and pasting some posts I wanted to save from the jc site in case they call get taken away.....I mistakenly posted that instead of here instead of into my word file...you don't miss a think zeuszor.....You should be a private eye. ;)

Anyway I missed your part of your post zeus where you questioned why the jc's would leave it to their "twisted sister" to post about their disbanding and that doesn't make sense does it.....perhaps this is some regrouping that she has twisted into her own idea as she does everything else...takes some truth and twists it into a lie that doesn't even resemble fact.

Who knows? Perhaps they were that desperate to shake her off that they fed her the BS but that seems pretty extreme when as someone else said, they could simply ban her again and block her copious emails. I read how she was peppering Dave with so many emails filled with "meaningful muck"....even Dave was fed up it seems. But to think they are all hiding underground to avoid her seems a little much....how would she explain this latest major faux pas to her master if she just made it up????? I mean since this lie would have effected him he wouldn't have been so grateful and find it so thrilling as when it was only about others.

I tend to think they have disbanded or are somehow regrouping and dropping off people that Dave considers dead weight. If so, I hope those people are OK and find their ways "home".