Thanks for sharing your opinion, and not trying to impose it upon me to accept as fact, Blackhat.

Shoot, when I was 20-22 years old, I went to Rainbow Gatherings every summer (five Gatherings in three years, three nationals and two regionals) and lived in a bus in Tres Orejas, outside of Taos, NM from '95-'96.

Later in life, I joined the Army in order to earn money for college and presently am working on my degree.

I didn't sell out, I bought in.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2010 08:38PM by zeuszor.

Yep, I used to live here, back in '95-'96. Back then it was a bunch of old hippies living in earthships that they built themselves with haybales and junk. Now, those same hippies are organized and selling real estate online. Surprising to me that they have a website now. So yeah, I well understand "off the grid" living and youthful idealism.

[tresorejas.com]

As I suspected McKay is still courting dsm/little rose and she has not stopped her tirades of abuse against people. I doubted she would be able to stop herself and McKay now openly admits he is still playing games with her despite banning her for appearances sake, from the Jesus Christian forum. Word is he received a degree of negative comment from other JC's who were sick of her insane ramblings and negative presense on their forum.

I hesitated to be as paranoid as McKay and that woman but I do not think that she will be up to anything positive after her obvious debacle of abusing a total stranger and then failing to even attempt to undo the damage she caused to that woman. I see no postings clearing that persons name and no apologies. A mind that could do what she did, is dangerous in my opinion as she is unable to grasp boundaries and limts that most sane people would not dream of crossing. The only sensible option, when you are confronted with someone like her, who will threaten and act on her threats, is immediatly to call authorities and keep records of her threats, should she target you for her severe abuse. She is on record now for what she pulled with her videoes and she will be dealt with legally, It's bordering extortion and other crimes, to threaten to contact someones employer unless the person does what you demand. She is on thin, thin ice yet Dave still relies on her to send him smut on people. Of course she revels in cruising the internet, trying to dig up said smut and she still wants her head pat from Dave by sending it to him. You will note she is very actively abusing people on other forums such as this one she sent to Dave. I KNEW her rage would not have her suddenly fall silent just because she is BANNED from all 3 forums.

You can Google her name still to find out the levels she is still going to behind the scenes. This is not stalking to Google a name....obviously if someone puts their name and their posts out there in the www people are free to check them out. At least I make sure I get the RIGHT PERSON when I Google someone....and I don't do anything but read and save the posts to see if she is carrying on with the insanity. This womans posts deserve to be watched and recorded as her past shows how she can seek to destroy people without a blink of her eye.No instead she is off on a rant over an article that is 2 years old about RR and is some gibberish rant that anyone like her could have written.

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

According to McKay she just sent it to him and of course HE has posted it with delight on his forum.

Perhaps McKay needs to look in the mirror and think about his own negative past history filled with numerous scandals and more importantly his not so nice present abusive treatment of people and then go so far as to look to his bleak future, which seems to be a cult of about 4 people----- if he can get his family members to stick it out.

McKay attempts to insert himself deeper (if that is possible) into the Johnson families estrangement with Joe Johnson (Said to be JC Co Leader????).

McKay has so selflessly offered to "sacrifice" himself.... to "endanger" himself by meeting the Johnson family in an LA airport when he comes to the USA. He is already issuing his "demands" through Joe Johnson. Joe has posted on the JC forum telling Sheila, his mother, that Dave McKay demands ALL the Johnsons be there. That is Sheila, Jared and John. BUT JOE JOHNSON THE SON THEY WISH TO SEE WILL NOT BE THERE. What utter nonsense. The Johnsons do not want to see Dave McKay I assume. I expect they would accept his eagle eyed intrusive presence in order to see JOE but I can't see why they would want to entertain Dave McKay's self serving imprudent idea of them meeting with him alone. FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

I FULLY believe he could set up some ludicrous tabloid like media event to trap them somehow and to cause humiliation to them. I do not believe he has a sincere interest in Joe seeing his family as even yesterday the co-leader (??we all know who the leader is??) yesterday Alfred was busy posting Sheila's court statements and busily attacking what she was now saying her feelings were. There is no positive talk beyond dangling a meeting with Joe if the Johnson’s say the right things on the forum and PUBLICALLY confess and put into writing anything the Jesus Christians THINK the Johnsons need to grovel and apologize for. What an unchristian spectacle this is. What a true view of how McKay works. I see the JC's cannot accept people change their feelings.

But to me, this proposed public meeting at an airport in the USA with DAVID MCKAY ONLY showing up, will be some orchestrated extravaganza like media event (like the whippings) or worse some tabloid media ambush on the Johnson's. My feelings only but surely they consider this to be possible based on the past.

Unfortunately, I see Sheila Johnson has already accepted Dave McKay's suggestion to meet him even while the JC's (Joe) is posting that given Dave's old age he is willing to sacrifice himself and end up in worse shape than Reinhard (??? Kindly recall Sheila Johnson says Joe Johnson himself said the injuries were not to the extent claimed???) ...............so if Dave is already contemplating himself the star as a "sacrificial lamb" what better thing for him to do that to instigate something that would make him appear to be a victim and get media attention and police action. I think this is a ludicrous suggestion of McKay’s and HIGHLY unwise to consider such a meeting unless they are prepared for some dramatic staged production. Surely they are all well aware of the recent whipping business over the Falon Gongs, Joe’s consideration of kidney donation might be used to get the media to attend, there is all sorts of past history to call this meeting into serious question. I do not believe for one second there will be a hope of the Johnson’s seeing their son at the meeting and why else should they bother?

I firmly suggest the Johnsons consult competent legal advice before meeting with McKay and if anyone has a way to communicate with the Johnsons I hope they put forward my concerns. I am sure the Johnsons are smart enough to think of all these possibilities but I am concerned they are being manipulated with the dangling of “Joe” just within their arms reach but level heads need to consider what else could be the purpose here.

UPDATED LIST OF BELIEVED-TO-BE CURRENT JC MEMBERS:

R2-Dave2+Cherry-3PO

Christine+Robin

Fran+Kim

Paul+Ulrike

(Karl and Rose)?

Joe

Barry

Ross

Alf

Jesse

Simon

Rino

Bob

So, we're down to sixteen or eighteen members now, down from thirty-five or so a few years back? I am not sure of the status of Karl and Rose, in Kenya. In any case, there are fewer than twenty JCs at present, and the numbers appear to be dropping. The names put together with a + sign are the married couples. About half of the present JCs are married couples, or are otherwise related. If one spouse wanted to leave, then it could potentially complicate things for the one who might wish to stay with the group. Notice how the brothers appear to have left at the same time.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 01:18AM by zeuszor.

Quote
yasmin
Actually, I was just ignoring this one, because I thought a reply would distract from the thread, and Mr Ross and Agur both put it so well, ...but if you truly value my input Zeuszor , (cough?) i did send you a lot of suggestions in a pm a while ago.

Re some more suggestions for helping with this group though;

In general, I would suggest that making the forum a safe place for ex members to come to, and share information, without fear of being attacked or having their privacy and boundaries ignored would be a great beginning..Ex members after all are a great source of honest information and their real life experiences are deeply valuable inho. Also, they deserve support and help, but that is just mho.

(Actually though, I thought it was Overlikon i wasn't replying to ( the other one who is of course, not you!)And Sir Laughsalot, who again, you have explained was not you.)

Agur, i find your writings interesting and informative, and Blackhat, your information, songs, and information on colloquial differences are always both interesting and entertaining.
Zeuszor, while I appreciate the fact that you appear to want my input? don't worry. If I feel the need to say something I will; and sometimes I like to take a break, also..So perhaps best instead just to "focus like a lazer" on the topic of the thread?
all the best, Yasmin

You didn't really answer my question here, yasmin. Got any better ideas for what we should do to help stop the cult, or do you just want to give me a hard time?

Never mind. Let's resolve it via PM. Otherwise, if you do not have any better ideas, then maybe you ought to re-examine your motives in posting here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 01:31AM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor
UPDATED LIST OF BELIEVED-TO-BE CURRENT JC MEMBERS:

R2-Dave2+Cherry-3PO

Christine+Robin

Fran+Kim

Paul+Ulrike

(Karl and Rose)?

Joe

Barry

Ross

Alf

Jesse

Simon

Rino

Bob

So, we're down to sixteen or eighteen members now, down from thirty-five or so a few years back? I am not sure of the status of Karl and Rose, in Kenya. In any case, there are fewer than twenty JCs at present, and the numbers appear to be dropping. The names put together with a + sign are the married couples. About half of the present JCs are married couples, or are otherwise related. If one spouse wanted to leave, then it could potentially complicate things for the one who might wish to stay with the group. Notice how the brothers appear to have left at the same time.

And Trevor too, if he is indeed real and not "Trevor Foster."

*LONG HEARTFELT POST ~FEEL FREE TO SKIP*

If anyone doesn't like my style of writing, I'm sorry but I am speaking from my heart. I don't think PM's using terms like "verbosity" are kind or helpful. Sometimes people need to speak/write to heal. Sometimes the information they want to share includes lengthily copy and paste from the JC site or another source so YES their post might seem long to you but no one is making you read it. You can pass it by.

I try to respect other people’s style and I am making every effort to validate their feelings/hurts/experiences/fears/ideas/concerns because obviously it matters to them. I try not to censor anyone or make them feel like idiots for their style of posting because it could be they don't like my style but are graciously forgiving and accepting that it's just ME and they want to show care as many people posting here have been hurt enough without anyone adding to its but jabbing and poking at them in PM.

I appreciate Malcolm's posts when he goes into detail as he was a member of the JC's for a long time and has MUCH to share that is of value. I'm grateful he takes the time and is willing to share his extraordinary experiences and personal opinions as HE is one person who can speak from living through the cult. THAT type of knowledge will be invaluable to a potential victim of McKay’s cult.

You can also learn so much about a person, sometimes you have misjudged someone and their longer post shows what their heart is really like and you learn why they are hurt/angry/passionate etc. After all, we want to be supportive and assist people in healing and sometimes that includes a little venting or a long story or two. I think people are taking a very brave step forward to share their inner most thoughts and awful experiences and we all have different styles. I am wordy quite often. That's me. I'm also friendly; warm hearted, loving, gentle, compassionate, a good listener and a loyal friend so maybe my wordiness is part of a gregarious personality that has not been destroyed by negative life experiences. I had a period in my life where a tragedy occurred and I was unable to speak for days and actually unable to move without assistance due to the emotional devastation. But I was supported and I was helped to cope and heal with love. I have no hate for the person who caused the loss as they actually wrote a very heartfelt letter and I believe they suffered greatly for their mistake of drinking and driving and killing innocent people, one being my precious little boy. The guilty persons family attended the court case, as did I, and would you believe these people had the courage to embrace me and they were actually sobbing. We all lost. We all suffered. But there was no hate only sorrow and I believe that because of that, I was able to recover and live without hatred in my heart.

Now look at someone like dsm/little rose....lashing out at the world, labeling people as murderers when it's obvious from a suicide letter she publisised that there was no blame to total strangers, being kicked off forum after forum for her rages, believing she is related to the Kennedy family, constantly focusing in crimes in the news and somehow believing she is central to solving huge complex cases, unearthing high level corruptions, unjustly ending up in jail according to her posts, screaming about Waco and Chappaquiddick and imaging herself designing Hillary Clintons wallpaper, imagining conspiracies, still muck gathering to score points with McKay, in serious trouble for her actions against an innocent person...... can you imagine being trapped in a heart like that? Full of hate? I think people would have put up with her and treated her as a damaged soul until she went far too far overboard with her videoes. Even the JC members must have told McKay this woman had to get off their forum before the JC end up in the same legal trouble for allowing serious libel. Yet McKay posts proudly that he still gets emails from her and he is still willing to post her gibberish as he did yesterday. It shows how far his credibility has fallen when he uses someone like her as a source...someone he has frequently labeled as mentally ill but he's still willing to court her so he can publish ugliness about others and keep his own hands clean by pinning her as the source. She doesn't seem to yet grasp that she is going to be held accountable for libel and issues cyber terroristic threats with her videoes while he distances himself and can say he banned her.

Now I see Dave McKay in the same light as her....he has been so rejected and feels a failure and he is filled with hate. People are abandoning him left and right, he's been back benched. Ignored. He is essentially unloved and only tolerated by his own people. That can breed hate. His own mother isn't proud of him. He rejected any kindness I tried to show him, calling it false and insincere when a I tried to explain to him that I loved all people, even those who hurt me because I believe Jesus commands us to. He spat in my face. I've never had that happen frankly and was in shock but it opened my eyes to what his members must experience when dealing with a man like that. Can you imagine the pain of having his as a family member...a spouse.....I believe Cherry McKay deserves our love and compassion. I would like if she was not called "consort" or CP30. How do you know she doesn't read this forum and is looking for support and a way out herself? I also believe Kevin McKay deserves our total respect for all he does to speak out against the group and with principles, without malice, he confronts Dave McKay head on weekly, areas where his father has lied, been wrong, unjust, unkind or been UN CHRIST LIKE. Heavens....I don't know if I could speak as firmly against my dad as he has done. I'm not saying this to flatter him...he can't even read this site for some reason (it won't open for him) so I think he rarely knows what is said here but wouldn't it be awesome to have him feel welcome to come here and post? He would have sooooo much to share, like Mal. How about if apostate came here....he would have valuable experiences and inside info to share and Tony too. They lived it all. They survived and would be testimony to others so maybe someone would be saved from joining ANY cult. To me, Kevin McKay is a hero as he could have simply gone away and gone on with his life. I see Mal as a hero for speaking out. I admire Jose David for taking Dave McKay on. Jose was one who got conned into doing whippings and that must have left scars on his soul. I admire young Grace as she must have stood firm of something to make them ship her off. Ash is a hero to me, he went in with great desire to do good and it's not his fault the group was not want he thought it was. He carries on now, standing tall on important issues and fighting for good causes. Brave, giving, selfless people join cults because they are searching for ways to make a difference in the world. Some groups are worse than others....some are easier to leave but there would be a level of loss and a shattering of dreams when people leave as they are losing the kinship of their group and they are often shunned by those who once seemed to be their family. McKay is now practicing these velvet divorces in order to not highlight the number of people dumping him, especially his long term members---those must sting as it amplifies the discord that is obviously going on within the group. Maybe some long term members see Joe Johnson as an extremely immature boy, pettily quarreling with his parents like a teen would.....maybe others just see that the group has become so angry and bitter that time is wasted fighting McKay's phantoms and enemies, rather than saving anyone. I can't imagine what it took for Roland and Sue to leave. It had to be earth shattering to them although the public divorce is made to appear so friendly, anyone can read Dave McKay's jabs at them. They would have suffered having only each other to rely on and a son to raise as well.

I imagine many cult members also feel devastated in a similar way to my own loss-it must feel like deaths to lose "family" you have relied on for 20 years. If any ex members can talk and share, they also can heal. Some leaving cults likely don’t have the family and support system I was blessed to have so forums like this and the ex site offer a safe place to talk. I appreciate the effort it takes to share deep hurts. I sure don't mind reading anyone’s long post if they are willing to put themselves out there and trust me and share. I would not like to censor anyone. You do not know what is going on in their heart and lives and if they have another place to share so why cut someone down for a longer post? Skip reading if you want but I don’t think referring to them as verbose or making them feel badly is kind.

I've even experienced unkind people taking my personal comments and using them to be hurtful but I have also experienced far greater support and love than I could have ever imagined from internet friends from this site and the ex JC site. I’ve decided I can cope with the few vicious people I encounter because they are the abnormal ones and it’s THEIR style to be malicious. I won’t change them and I won’t let them change me and make me like them or make me afraid to share. Dave McKay has mocked me for my "love, flattery, cuddles and cookies" but I don't care....if that is the worst crime I have committed.....good. I will stand up against his record any day. Had I not been honest and share openly I would have missed those peoples chance to love me. So what if Dave McKay and people like little rose take some pokes at me...they attack the world and are malicious unloving jealous people who alienate many many people, including their own families. Their records stand for all to see on the internet, so much HATE! So many enemies so really what they say about us does hurt sometimes but you can put it into context when you consider that it's THEM not you because you've seen their patterns.

I can understand people resenting long posts and labeling them verbose or diatribes if someone is being vicious, cruel and malicious but when I post, although I am PEEVED with McKay and don't "like" him, I don't think I am overly horrid. It hurts me to think I am unwelcome to be myself here as I would like to be able to share honestly with the goal of helping others to see the damage a cult can do to a person’s heart and soul, even via internet and forums.

That's my goal. To keep people from joining the cult as I don't like how McKay treats people and I don't think it's a healthy place for people. I think it's oppressive and a personality driven cult to glorify MCKAY and not JESUS.


So please accept me as I am as I accept you. Please embrace and respect all who post as that will give others the courage to come forward and post. I'd LOVE to see more ex members posting here and I hope they would be embraced regardless of their style. Take what you can from others posts and ignore what you don't want to bother with and if that means simply skim reading a post or skipping it, fine but you need not tell the person. If you were having a face to face discussion with someone you would not tell them to shut up as they talk too much to suit you. That would be unheard of.

I can simply choose to skip a post if I feel it's too long or goes into aspects that I am not interested in.

Please let’s be kind and respectful of others and not try to pick faults on trivial issues.


Yup… VERY VERY long again…so feel free to ignore me but please don't feel the need to invalidate me for my style I am writing from my heart and I have strong feelings as I share. Let's celebrate diversity and embrace anyone who cares enough to open their hearts and share. ;)

Yep, I hate it also when somebody tells me how to express myself. It feels invalidating and dismissive, doesn't it? McKay pisses me off and has hurt me badly; part of the reason that I spent a year in therapy at MH was over him. McKay has driven me to suicidal thinking, too; it got to the point where I hated the fact that I had to walk on the same Earth as him and was seriously considering checking out, in order to vacate the airspace that we share. Seriously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 04:59AM by zeuszor.

Well zeuszor. I wish I could give you a hug and I mean that. No one should feel that way. Don't let anyone rob you of the precious gift of life as obviously you make a terminal and permanent choice over a temporary feeling or problem when you commit suicide. I wonder if Mr. McKay is aware of how bad he makes people feel? Does he care?

Now you are the second person to put such thoughts into writing, the other was a woman who said she was being driven to consider ending her life and she pointed the finger directly at Dave McKay for his abusive treatment of her on his forum. I hope this woman is alright as she vasilated back and forth between the forums sometimes loving Dave McKay and other times wishing he would never communicate with her again. Strange to give this man, this very uncharismatic miserable grouch this much power. I admit to having given him more thought than he deserves but think of it this way zeuszor, you have had the power to pull yourself out of the feelings you describe but others may not have the strength to do so or know the resources to reach out to. You might be able to help someone else who feels like you have expressed.

I'm glad you sought help and that you have come a long way. Please don't ever act of those type of feelings because people do care. Just hang on and reach out. There are all sorts of help lines with people willing to listen at all hours of the night and they can help you make it through a tough patch.

I do care and will pray for you. Talking on forums and journaling might be an option too. Art or crafts or sports can also help get you outside of yourself too.