Thanks Malcolm. I'm sure I go over the top at times and seem far too wordy to some.

I feel it's so important for anyone who has been injured by a cult, to be able to talk and get some support. Internet words hurt too....not as badly as being in person and being bullied but any time ones character or personality is shredded, it feels awful.

I feel it's important to focus on the topic of the group and why we feel it's important that outsiders know our personal experiences, the trivial and the major, it all adds up to show what life in the Jesus Christians could be like for anyone joining. I believe it's fair to present information about the group leaders that show their personalities because they have put themselves out there, being radical and controversial, they are not attempting to have privacy on many matters but I still feel every single person needs to exhibit self control and not launch wild vendetta's. TALK is fine. Acting out...not so much. Keeping in mind what you would like to have done to YOU is always good.

I think it's most safe and healthy to focus on the cult itself and it's leader and leave each other with whatever level of privacy each person is comfortable with and not to hound people into identifying themselves as we all just witnessed what some people do with ill gotten personal information. If people refuse to respect people's personal privacy rights and will attack anyone they can, then forums won't exist as there will be such intense levels of paranoia and distrust.

I believe that it is fair to discuss McKay in depth, as he is the central figurehead of the cult and he puts himself forward. I feel it's fair to discuss what the group does, says, writes whatever but I hold that all people have the right to not be cyber bullied, terrorized or have their families abused, their employers contacted, their livelihood threatened, over internet posts and incorrect assumptions etc. I also believe each person is responsible for what they choose to do, they cannot dump the blame on someone else "making" them angry and "making" them act.
I believe each person is responsible for the information they put out there about themselves....if they choose to go from forum to forum, blathering their far fetched life stories and making wild claims, they can hardly complain of abuse when someone quotes them and mentions details they themselves constantly harp on such as being related to the Kennedy's, Jihad conspiracies and Tupperware Trauma. If you make crazy blustering posts, you will earn your crazy warhorse reputation fairly. That's completely different that someone prying, making phone calls and getting all 007....more like 002 1/2 because they get things so screwed up, they cause a world of hurt to the wrong person then slink off muttering "Ooopsie!" Indeed.

The goal I always thought is to assist people in knowing the facts about the cults and cult leaders, the dangers, the demands and the histories of those who were once involved, but not in chopping each other into pieces over religious disagreements, in God's name and because we can. Maybe it's a good idea-self included-to remember we are accountable to someone Great and Almighty *sit down Dave McKay* for every word.

Quote
Agur
I feel it's important to focus on the topic of the group and why we feel it's important that outsiders know our personal experiences, the trivial and the major, it all adds up to show what life in the Jesus Christians could be like for anyone joining. I believe it's fair to present information about the group leaders that show their personalities because they have put themselves out there, being radical and controversial, they are not attempting to have privacy on many matters but I still feel every single person needs to exhibit self control and not launch wild vendetta's. TALK is fine. Acting out...not so much. Keeping in mind what you would like to have done to YOU is always good.

Agur: so, what exactly is YOUR personal experience with the JCS?

It was very negative. Thank you for asking me.

I found McKay highly combative, negative, quarrelsome and ornry. Very hard to please, controlling and all round bratty when he didn't get his way. He was domineering, suspicious and rather unkind and hostile towards newcomers, constantly feeling he had some right to probe into their lives so he could determine their worthiness. He would not accept apologies gracefully but would verbally hammer and badger people to the breaking point. One could not trust him, I felt, he played people against each other on the Jesus Christian forum and that he encouraged pack attacks on people that he didn't like for whatever reason.

I found him reactive and his habit of posting private conversations very childish and needing of attention and drama. He seemed to want to be the total center of focus and would insert himself in discussions and rather hi jack the thread taking it off in the direction he desired. He seemed to think the forum was his little playground and all newcomers were subject to his paranoid questioning, yet he was never satisifed with the answers they provided. Much like the experience Apollo recently had. He was always looking for the evil, the troll, the conspiracy. When he didn't find one, he created one.

These were my personal experiences when I was a member of his forum. I am not saying I am correct but these were my feelings in reviewing the treatment I received.

I cannot comment on the smell of their feet, weight or anything as telling as all that but I confirm there was a spirit of anger and unhappiness in their posts and there seemed to be a "don't rock the McKay dingy". I felt members seemed to tread carefully around him and seemed to wish to avoid being his target of anger thus they were willing to pounce on anyone he declared as "enemy". Individually I saw some positives in a few people but there was an overlying depressive tone and resigned attitude. Very doomsday. Very gloomy.

Have I answered your question enough?

No, you have not answered my question at all.

You are describing things there in terms of generalities, and anybody who merely read that forum could have come to those conclusions without ever having been a member at all.

What I am asking is what your personal experience with DM and the JCs is/was?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 06:52AM by zeuszor.

Hi Agur, welcome. One of the nice things about this forum is that Mr Ross fully supports everyones right to be anonymous.

By the way, neither Zeuszor nor I are ex members; in fact the only known ex member who currently posts here is Malcolm.
all the best ,Yasmin

Quote
yasmin
Hi Agur, welcome. One of the nice things about this forum is that Mr Ross fully supports everyones right to be anonymous.

By the way, neither Zeuszor nor I are ex members; in fact the only known ex member who currently posts here is Malcolm.
all the best ,Yasmin

Welcome, Agur! Greetings!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 08:47AM by zeuszor.

This is from Ross a member of the Jesus Christians. It appears he is cult shopping or is he inviting Dave McKay to join another cult since his own cult is a miserable flop?

Ross The jesus Christian says to Dave McKay's forum:

The Matreiya cult is growing 19/10/2010 22:29


The Matreiya cult is growing after 30 years since we first read about this movement.This guy could be THE Antichrist!
They claim this guy is not a man but a spirit who can change forms at will.
He seems to be gaining a following, slowly.

I imagine McKay seems a real let down as his cult shrinks to nothing as we speak.

[www.jesus-teachings.com]




Dave McKay is UNHAPPY with Ross. He doesn't appreciate Ross putting up a link to another cult.
Dear me, if Ross leaves and takes Dave McKay with him...does that make the Jesus Christians number down to single digit?

Dave whines:

Re: The Matreiya cult is growing 20/10/2010 00:19

Ross, the thread title says that the Maitreya cult is growing, yet all you have given is a link to the cult's own site. Wouldn't it be like saying "the Jesus Christians are growing" and then give a link to us saying that we are planning something big?

I think it is ironic, however, that you should mention this group at the same time that Owen should be talking about the concept we communicated in Listening, which is that Jesus will be the embodiment of what all of the sincere religious people of the world are looking for.

The fact that the counterfeit comes first, and then Jesus, AFTER the counterfeit turns evil, explains why you would be saying that this guy could be the antichrist; but that is a concept that a lot of people (possibly Owen included) would not be aware of.

Dave
JC Member
Posts: 5826
Points: 7905
graph
User Online Now Click here to see the profile of this user


Now Dave McKay seems to be jumping all over Ross for something Owen is saying .....is McKay now suspecting poor Ross of being Owen? Or is Owen being blamed for Ross's interest in another cult? Or is evil Tupperware and Ebay cults going to take the remaining members of McKay's clan and send them peddling Tupperwares New Whip and Snap Hello Kitty Smoothie Makers...on Ebay of course?

In many ways, I find McKay a ridiculous figure of fun...but then reality hits again and he is what he is.

Cruel. Vicious. Unfunny.

Evil.

I don't know if anyone's read Joe's latest post in the Johnson thread but it really is a sickening read which has McKay's finger prints all over it. The money they received from the Johnson's clearly wasn't enough. They now want to humiliate them. He now wants his parents to appear in court to speak against Rick Ross. It's hard to see how Joe and his parents can ever have a relationship with the evil McKay lurking in the background. He really is an evil man.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 09:57AM by Apollo.

Hot air and foul gas! Speak against Rick Ross? For what? Providing a forum for people to talk? McKay provides the same thing and has no scruples about personal attacks. He is the author of many of them whereas here Rick Ross is generally quite quiet and allows the forum to take their own course as long as rules are abided by. McKay is merely looking for a new drama and cash cow. Needs another cruise? Spitting the dummy because not enough attention?

Let's just make damn sure there is record of McKay's forum before he edits and alters it to suit himself. McKay needs to know courts will not look at only the certain sections he wants them to see. Once credibility in court can be called into question, once anyone has been shown to have been deceptive in the past, a judge has the right to discount all they say as potentially false and if anyone comes with unclean hands to the court, you will be ousted. The courts will not entertain plaintiffs with unclean hands. The courts will not let anyone pick and choose what is admitted so be prepared for Anita Foster, Private Eyes, all the other debacles to be entered into evidence of bad character. In general, courts and legal reference books define moral turpitude as "an act of baseness, vileness or depravity in the private and social duties which a man owes to his fellow men or society in general, contrary to the accepted and customary rule of right and duty between man and man."

Lawfully so, courts that use this definition have called it "less than finite" and "an elusive concept incapable of precise definition." Since there is no concrete rule, when scrutinizing an issue of moral turpitude the courts will explore the particular behavior that transpired to see if it has risen to the level called moral turpitude. So McKay's past history will be explored carefully with ALL parts under scrutiny. That could mean ex members called to testify. Family members of current cult members. Monitary records and fiscal accountability can be questioned. Any questions of frauds, any questions of unwarranted benefits claimed. Police records. Tax records. Holdings. Whippings. Kidney donations and how well recipients knew the donors-statements of these facts signed and sworn as truthful in order for the donation to proceed. Yes you better have very clean hands when you come to court or you can stand humiliated. Again.

In my humble opinion, McKay has far more to answer for than anyone. His type is the cause of many fiascos and were it not for cult leader subspecies, there would be no need for a Rick Ross Forum. I don't always agree with everything any forum does but I will stand firmly in favor of Rick Ross and any other forum that wants to keep record of cult activities and who seeks truth and freedom for people who have been brainwashed and conned into cults. Rick Ross is not perfect but he is doing what he can to give people a voice while McKay bans for no reason and tries to silence critics with bully boy tactics.

So is this the next trick? Joe gets dangled like a carrot......? Mom and Dad "asked" go up against Rick Ross in exchange for a visit from Joe? Smacks of McKay trying to deal Bobby Kelly.

I refer to this attempt alleged plan of McKay's to exchange Bobby Kelly for McKay's demand to ongoing access to the boy. I added the large bold font so you notice the point. Please see the full news record in the event McKay calls me a liar. *yawn*

[www.apologeticsindex.org]



Find teenage boy who ran off to join cult, orders judge, Daily Mail (England), July 14, 2000

The leader of the religious cult suspected of kidnapping a
16-year-old Essex boy has said he will return him
in exchange for continued access.

Australia-based David McKay, head of the Jesus Christians, also said he planned
to appeal against a decision to make the youth a ward of court.

His offer appeared to contradict his claim on Saturday that the teenager - who
left home two weeks ago hours after meeting sect members - was not with the
cult.
(...)

Under the terms of the ward of court order, anyone coming into contact with
Bobby is obliged to reveal his whereabouts to the authorities.
(...)

On Saturday Mr MacKay told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: ''I don't have him. We
don't have him.''

A statement on the group's website declares: ''We are realistic enough to
recognise that we will probably have to hand Bobby over to the authorities
eventually, whether we agree with such a ruling or not.

''At this stage, Bobby is strongly opposed to going with the police. However, we
are trying to prepare him both psychologically and spiritually for such a
situation.''

The e-mail message, purportedly from Bobby, read: ''I believe there is something
better to do with my life instead of working for money. Because I have joined
the Jesus Christians, I can work for God full-time.''
(...)

Mr McKay, who exercises strict control over his followers around the world,
founded the Australia-based Jesus Christians in 1981.
[...more...] [Need the full story? Read this]



=== Cults - General

11. Sinister groups that take over the lives of their disciples
Daily Express (England), July 14, 2000
[www.lineone.net]
[Story no longer online? Read this]
The Jesus Christians are an Australian-based cult. Their leader is David McKay,
who is thought to have been a member of the notorious Children of God sect
before setting up the group.

The number of members in this country or worldwide is not known because members
are secretive and reluctant to talk about their activities.

But one of its basic rules is that members have to break contact with their
families and friends. They are also expected to hand over all their worldly
goods.

It was significant that within hours of involving teenager Bobby Kelly, from
Romford, the group had taken his TV and video and then wanted to strip his room
of his other belongings.

In that they are similar to the Children of God, now called The Family. The late
David Berg, an American who founded the Children of God in 1968, preached free
sex to his followers. He also preached child abuse.

A British woman, Sylvia Padilla, has described how she and her family were
members of the Children of God for 18 years before they escaped.

She said she decided to get out when she discovered her children - five
daughters and two sons - had been the victims of sex abuse by members. One of
her daughters, Victoria, told how she was brainwashed from the age of seven to
believe that sex with adults was normal. Her mother described how she was
required to trawl bars and restaurants offering sex to try to win recruits.

Graham Baldwin, who monitors the activities of cult groups, reckons there have
been at least 1,000 set up in this country in the last 50 years. Some are quite
small with only a handful of followers. Others have members around the world.

One that has been known to leave some adherents with serious psychiatric
problems is the Church of Christ.

It has branches around the country and its members believe they are the only
true Christians. Every member has a discipler, another member who is consulted
about every decision.

Graham Baldwin said: ''The effect is that everyone is controlled by the cult and
everyone is expected to hand over ten per cent of their income.''



PLEASE GO TAKE A LOOK AT THE LINKS FOR MUCH MORE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2010 11:25AM by Agur.