I visited the Jesus Christians website and decided to use their chat function on the home page. I spoke to Dave McKay. I asked him various questions about the Jesus Christians. I found it difficult to gain a straight answer. He viewed every question as a personal attack and he eventually cut the chat off. I have never come across a more defensive and paranoid man in my life. I'm not surprised they have such a low membership rate as Dave clearly scares everyone off. The next day i visited the Jesus Christians website and noticed Dave had started a thread where he had posted his own edited version of our chat. I decided to join the forum and give my own version of events. I told Dave an honest person would have posted the full unedited version which would have given others the opportunity to make their own judgements. It was obviously Dave's attempt to control and manipulate which seemed to work as right on que his followers arrived to defend their leader and to tell me how bad a person i was. Throughout the thread i was told i was a bigot, rude, disgusting and i had hearing difficulties. His lieutenant (the paranoid old lady) attacked me from the moment i arrived. She went on numerous rants about how i was a fascist thug, aggressive, and that i should be ashamed of myself. You wouldn't believe how over the top she went. You would think i was a child killer the way she attacked me. She desperately tried to get me to view her Youtube videos which i eventually did. I then realised that she's obviously as mad as a hatter. I couldn't believe the level of paranoia amongst their members. I think they thought i was either a reporter or a member of this forum over to cause controversy. The truth is i hadn't even heard of the Rick Ross forum until i read their endless rants about it. Any question i asked throughout the thread was related to the group but they seemed to take personal offence to everything. My argument was they're quite happy to shove their literature in our face, they're quite happy to go on television shows and they're quite happy to make numerous Youtube videos so as far as i'm concerned they put themselves out there which leaves them open to scrutiny. I had asked Dave on another thread if he had been influenced by David Berg which seemed to really anger him. He replied with a huge rant. I was eventually banned after a comment i made in the Johnson's 3rd party thread. I didn't in any way attack the group. I made a comment about how i felt Joe's dad was making a real effort and that life's too short to be holding grudges against your family. This seemed to anger McKay and i was banned five minutes later with the post removed. It appears he will not allow anything postive to be said about the Johnson's.

I decided to visit the website last night and i again selected the chat option where i spoke to Dave. He went on a huge rant about me posting in the Johnson's 3rd party thread and numerous other things. He was posting an endless amount of drivel at almost 100 miles an hour and i found it difficult to even keep up never mind reply. Eventually i lost my internet connection. I decided to return and he went on another mad rant. Here's the chat which took place..

Jesus Christian
You can chat with a Jesus Christian personally through this box when they are online! Just enter a nickname for yourself below and start chatting!

Bryan
Hi Dave i lost my internet connection are you still there?

Jesus Christian
yeah, so I noticed. Sorry about that.

Bryan
not at all

Jesus Christian
yeah, but working on some other things at the same time. Maybe that will slow down my typing. lol

Bryan
haha

Jesus Christian
So we were talking about how the question about influence was, in my opinion, loaded.

Bryan
what was my last comment Dave?

Jesus Christian
PMI understand that people can be influenced in many ways

Bryan
you put up a decent argument, i understand the point you were making

Jesus Christian
I tried on the forum to explain to you how the question was really pointless UNLESS you just wanted to trap me into saying that what the JCs teach comes from David Berg, which seemed to be almost exactly what you said on completion. The primary concerns people have about David Berg are his sexual aberrations, yet we are total opposites to him on that point.

Bryan
i've recently read your teachings in greater detail

Jesus Christian
So the only "influence" that is relevant to the discussion is that he influenced me NOT to be like him.

Bryan
Your teachings explained that. I accept your explanation. Can we now move on?

Jesus Christian
slow down.

Bryan
I would like to ask something

Jesus Christian
See, it is always your rush to get to the next question that has characterised our conversations.
If the next question actually RELATED to where we were with the first one, it would be different.

Bryan
The reason i would like to move on is because i feel i have been accused of something

Jesus Christian
But there is so much about the fact that you made that post on the forum that supposedly summarised what I was saying, that needs to be dealt with.
I realise that.

Bryan
I'm willing to come back to that

Jesus Christian
When you said, "Nobody's perfect," it was obviously showing that someone had said you are not.

Bryan
you have to be willing to give a little Dave. Lets meet in the middle. Are you willing to answer my question?

Jesus Christian
I spent a long time trying to answer a question, and you turned the answer against me. I don't understand your idea of "the middle". What I am saying is that you do NOT resolve things. You just change the subjedt. We were actually getting somewhere. You acknowledged that you had read enough of my teachings to know that I differ quite strongly with David Berg. That, to me, is significant. But you talk about me "giving a little". I think I've given you a LOT. and what have you done with it? I cannot imagine where youre "middle" is. So are you there?

Bryan
I'm here Dave. What did you mean when you said 'report'?

Jesus Christian
You wrote: The reason i would like to move on is because i feel i have been accused of soemthing

Bryan
University report? media report? please elaborate Dave

Jesus Christian
I am accusing you of not listening, and of having a bias. That is the real issue. You chose to start with David Berg for some strange reason. Like, why not my mother, who has far more influence on me? Why not King David, whom I wrote an essay on as one of the people I most admire when I was in high school?

Bryan
You accused me of something

Jesus Christian
Why not Gandhi, whom I praise in several articles?

Bryan
can you at least elaborate Dave?

Jesus Christian
I accused you of not listening and of having a bias.

Bryan
Dave you said you fear it is going to come up in some kind of report against you, what do you mean by that? If i had asked you if you had been influenced by Gandhi would you have come back at me and said why didn't you ask about David Berg? I haven't read about Gandhi on your website. Maybe when i do, i will ask you to elaborate

Jesus Christian
Are you really trying to miss the point, Bryan?

Bryan
why are you fearful of me Dave?

Jesus Christian
Maybe I said the wrong thing in mentioning Ghandi, because you probably have some religious gripe with him too, in which case you just MIGHT say that I inherited a religious virus from him as well. Your policy seems to be guilt by association. And as long as you can locate contact between me and anyone you disagree with, that becomes fodder for the cannon. That is where the term muck-raker comes from.

Bryan
Where have i said i have a problem with Gandhi?

Jesus Christian
It's a person who is not looking for good in others, but only bad. I guessed it, Bryan. I noticed that you did not say that you would be questioning me on the influence that King David had on me. Perhaps a little too hard to find something evil in king David (apart from Bathsheba perhaps) that you could link me with.

Bryan
Who is King David?

Jesus Christian
I know that a lot of Christians dislike Gandhi because he never became a professing Christian. Only the most famous in the entire Old Testament. most famous king, I mean. Dont they teach Bible stories in the Church of Scotland?

Bryan
So you assumed i have a problem with Gandhi?

Jesus Christian
Yes.

Bryan
Well you shouldn't assume Dave

Jesus Christian
We all do, Bryan. You've certainly made some huge assumptions about me. Whenever human beings lack perfect knowledge (which is always) they go on what they assume to be true until proven otherwise. so it's nothing to get on your religious high horse about.

Bryan
Is that a fault of yours Dave?

Jesus Christian
the real issue is whether or not we drop those assumptions when evidence suggests otherwise. I don't see making assumptions as being a fault, no.

Bryan
What evidence do you have which would suggest i have a problem with Gandhi?

Jesus Christian
I think it is when those assumptions fly in the face of evidence to the contrary and we still cling to them, and they become prejudices, then it is a fault.
My evidence is that you chose David Berg as someone to question me about. If you saw some reason to choose Gandhi, I would assume that it was for much the same purpose.

Bryan
Remember this chat has been logged Dave

Jesus Christian
i.e. to imply guilt by association. I'm hoping you remember it too. Though I hope you won't mind me deleting all the stuff about dragging the screen out! lol Logged for a "report"? lol

Bryan
You can delete whatever you want Dave

Jesus Christian
I went looking for my use of the word report and could not find it.

Bryan
i will save the full version

Jesus Christian
so are we finished?

Bryan
oh really? no

Jesus Christian
It's sounding very much like we are.

Bryan
i have proof that you said it

Jesus Christian
We keep trying to start over, and it keeps getting back to tensions very quickly.Hey, did I say that I had not said it?

Bryan
would you like me to remind you Dave?

Jesus Christian
I only went looking because I think I did. yes, canyou give the quote?

Bryan
it sounds like you're backpeddling Dave, do you know what that means Dave?

Jesus Christian
Bryan, you are so very confused. I took note that you wrote: The reason i would like to move on is because i feel i have been accused of soemthing. And then you referred to the report thing.

Bryan
Jesus Christian So I have to watch every word I type on this chat, for fear it is going to turn up in some report on us. There's your quote Dave.

Jesus Christian
As I recalled it, I had either asked if you were going to make a report or I had said that I thought you MIGHT make on. Yeah, there it is! Where is the accusation?
See, I remembered it better than you. You just don't listen Bryan.

Bryan
I think i have everything i need for now Dave

Jesus Christian
for a report? lol

Bryan
Would you like to add anything before i go?

Jesus Christian
Can you send me a copy? and let me know where you are going to publish it? Why do you try so hard to prove me correct?

Bryan
Do you fear me Dave?

Jesus Christian
I should think that at some stage you would just try to criticise yourself enough to escape criticism from me. Fear you? Of course. I'm petrified. Was awake all last night shivvering. "What if Bryan comes on line tomorrow? What will I ever do? Get serious, Bryan! This chat is ended.

JESUS CHRISTIAN IS OFFLINE
15.10.2010

The David Berg question i asked him on the forum appears to have really hit a nerve. The truth is i hadn't even heard about the connection until i read about it on the Jesus Christians website. I have absolutely no idea where his mad rant about me having a problem with Gandhi came from. What i've noticed with Dave is you can't reason with him. Dave has all the answers and anyone who questions him is classed as a troll or a 'dirt mucker'.

Make no doubt about it, this is a man who is teetering on the edge.

When new members enter the JC forum McKay quickly tries to establish whether or not you’re a potential future JC member. Once he’s established you’re not a potential future JC member you’re now considered an enemy and he attacks you with endless inane rants.

The writing is on the wall for McKay and his cult. Numbers are down and one or two members are now publicly showing McKay a total lack of respect, Casey being the prime example. Ex member Jose David has now also returned to the site and he appears to be fighting McKay’s inane rants head on. McKay seems rattled as he focuses his grievances on Jose David’s language. If there’s one thing McKay doesn’t like it’s current and ex members who challenge him.

McKay reminds me of an evil dictator desperately trying to put on a brave front as his empire collapses.

Does anybody here know much about the work of one Dr. Robert Sapolsky?

[en.wikipedia.org]

His work is quite fascinating, specifically in the area of the study of the physiological effects of stress in baboon social-group dominance hierarchies.

He found that the alpha-baboon, the dominant male, is the most stressed-out, and therefore the least physically healthy, of any individual member of their social units.

One wonders how DM's physical health is these days? Or how the health of the rest of the JCs is?

[www.youtube.com]

In the Serengeti in Africa, Professor Robert Sapolsky, is discovering that when it comes to stress we have a lot in common with baboons. For the past 26 years he has been measuring the levels of hormones in male baboons and has shown that stress-related diseases such as heart disease are dependant on personality. Type A personalities are more susceptible to stress. But if youre a type A personality like Jude it doesnt mean youre stuck with it forever.

Jude is working hard to deal with her stress. Twice a day she takes twenty minutes out to meditate. After six months her blood pressure is normal. Meditation, it seems, is very effective at controlling the stress response. At Harvard University, Dr Herbert Benson and Dr Sarah Lazar are trying to find out why.

Using an MRI scanner they are looking inside the meditating brain and discovering that meditation not only controls our heart and breathing rates but allows us to become more alert. Dr Herbert Benson calls this the relaxation response the bodys innate ability to deal with the harmful effects of stress. And you dont just have to meditate to do it. Dancing, prayer and exercise are just some of the ways we can all deal with our stress and improve our health.

[www.youtube.com]

(bonobos have been mentioned in the past; I though that it'd be edifying to the discussion to brign up the effects of stress in baboon troops, especially with respect to the "Type A" baboons.)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 02:27AM by zeuszor.

It seems i have offended McKay and his sidekick..

Dave wrote:
''This is slander of the basest sort, and unless Rick Ross takes it down straight away, it will be included in what we send to the solicitor. We have had just about enough of the lies and slander that come from those two hate sites. It is time that people started being accountable for the rubbish they are writing.''

Dictionary definition, Grooming: To prepare, as for a specific position or purpose.

Casey wrote:
''I wonder that we really even need to make such warnings anymore. RR has had 4-5 years of complaints and pleas from us to rescind the obvious hatred being spewed out against us on his site.

I think, include it all in the report. For a long time now we've been showing mercy and just taking the abuse. I think we've done what we can on the mercy/patience front.

Now it's time for justice.''

What type of justice, corporal punishment?

Let me know when the next kangaroo court date is and i shall see if i'm available.

Dear Apollo,

Thank you very much for going to all the trouble that you have here...

Yes Berg is a "sore nerve". I used to wonder why (as it was acknowledged fairly openly when I was a member), but I understand why now....David has overtly and deliberately, misrepresented himself to the bulk of his membership....only Chris or Cherry (his daughter and wife) were present while David was front man for the Children of God for those YEARS during their time in Broken Hill....Christine was an only infant....Ross would have seen the leather bound copy of Berg's teachings that David carried around with him at those times....I can't be sure if Robin did....but definitely Cherry and Ross, would perjure the truth in order to support McKay's fabrications...and on demand!

If we look at the remaining membership, (Ulrike, Reinehardt, Jeremy and Jayme, Fran and Kim, Bazza, Alf, Joe, Trevor...is that all? The numbers ARE getting thin arent' they?....Casey is obviously NOT a member, even though he is still psychologically trapped in the need for McKay's approval)....consider the dates of their servitude....none of them would have access to information about McKays' "bonadfides"....he is in a position to be able to cast himself in as "favourable" a light, as he can, so he does....by misrepresenting himself.


The specific teachings and addendum that I would say originate from Berg, would be:

"Forsaking all" (...to the control of the leaders of the "cell" who recruit you)

"Working for love, and not for money" (the myth that JC "book sales" and kidney "cost reimbursements" and other income generating activities
are sanctified, and then hypocritically asserting that the rest of us work for Satan)

The entire "living by faith" fundamentals (which David of course attributes to himself)

"Hating your parents" (...and other friends and family that threaten your availability to the "cell")

Many of the administrative characteristics of the JC's (e.g. community votes on spending priorities, the "morale building" slogans, they call out),

The original concepts behind many of the publications, David has claimed originated with him,



To be fair to others (e.g. the Scientologists) it is not only Berg that David has purloined his teachings from,....David steals whatever he can from any source that he think offers him, potential for "attention" (mention has already been made that "Survivors" is a third rate copy of Le Hayes publications)

I do not dispute that the man is a monster now, but would like to qualify that observation, by as I stated previously, there was once something "human" in there....

In the conversation with Apollo, the common negotiating strategy, on David's part is "projection" and "escalation" and "avoidance".....he will be "logical" in any conversation up to the point that he senses he is "losing control" and then he will endeavour to manipulate the conversation by accusing you of what he himself, is guilty of...and where you question this, simply "upping the ante" of the derision he pours upon....refusing to address what is any way "uncomfortable" for him.....

The man has the psychology of a three year old "brat" who has always "got his own way" and will simply scream all the louder where this scenario is threatened....that is why, Apollo....you get "rational debate"....then the rash of accusations, that are simply intended to cause you to doubt yourself (...hey ...maybe I should pull back a little...this guy seems genuinely upset....could I have said something wrong?) It's all a blustering, sham....

What is disgusting is McKay threatening to sue anyone when he libels people constantly. I think any claim McKay ever makes against anyone will be weakened by all the attacks he has launched on innocent people.

His own cult members are ignoring him much of the time and side stepping his tirades at people. Periodically he demands some support so it seems some JC is sent to appease him and throw him a bone.

Considering the attacks that he recently enouraged against people; he used a needy, weak individual to go after people he believes are his enemies, well I do not think there will be much sympathy for him in court. His son stands against him. Ex members would be out in full force to testify to how he operates. Remember, McKay your circus forum is a testament to how you abuse people so it will be expected people will strike back.

Mercy???? The JC's showed MERCY to someone? When???? Where?????

Ridiculous. McKay has banned his loud mouthed weapon now thus he seems to be trying to fight his own battle. How long til he calls upon someone to fight for him? He's a coward and a bully.

What is the count down to now? About 8 members? McKay is a failure and this is hurting him. Imagine knowing he can rally up only a few comments in his own defense. Pathetic. Unless you have treated people like trash for so long you are getting some back now from your own people. The sound of silence.

Rest assured now McKay will demand a strike but anyone can see how he treats new people on his forum. McKay doesn't make much sense anymore but he still makes enemies whenever possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2010 09:12AM by Agur.

I will return here briefly to a previous comment, that Zeuszor raised,


Is McKay "mad"(actually believes himself an "Apostle" of God as he has claimed about himself)

or simply "bad" (knows he is a fraud, and perpetuates with the myth owing to the lives and cash, he can defraud from others)....

I tend towards the former....however I must say that the categories have now "merged" in McKay, and the question is not now completely appropriate.


Where he transparently refuses to acknowledge baseless accusations and innuendo against Apollo (which appear in almost EVERY communicated thought) in the conversation recorded earlier on this page, and where he attempts to covertly "persuade" Apollo that the conversation can only proceed from the extraction of a grovelling "apology" from Apollo (...which would then lead to further and further "leverage" in claims of credibility.....),

McKay is informing us that he a hyper narcissistic individual for whom there no longer is "good" or "bad"....there is only "win" or "lose" for little ol' David.

Seems McKay is losing a lot lately and all his failures and losses contribute to his foul temperment and lashing into everyone.

With friends like these,

littlerose
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The above text is from his forum so I guess his groupy failed to satisfy him? Or did she include him again in one of her late night video tirades?


Also for McKay to suggest any other forum needs to remove posts that offend him when he allows...no not only allows.....he authors libel and lies to stand on his circus forum---what a moron and hypocrite he proves himself to be.

A couple of things i'd like clarified..

Has Roland decided to leave the Jesus Christians?

If ever there was an advertisement for why you should stay away from religious cults then Roland must be the prime example. I've now viewed him on several clips and the man seems unable to show any kind of emotion. His voice seems to permanently stay at the same level. I guess that's what 20 years with Dave McKay does to a person, you only need to look at Cherry who is the female version. These people are the victims. If it is true that he's left the cult then that really is huge. He's the last person you'd expect to leave. I really hope it's true because his son deserves so much better.

Now onto this cruise..

Where did the money come from?

They bit my head off when i suggested they make money from their books. They claim they only cover the costs thanks to 'donations' so that certainly wouldn't have covered the cost of a cruise. Are they all cheating the benefits system? That's the only explanation i can come up with.