Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 08, 2010 06:51AM
Mal: when it comes to the McKay child you mention above, I do believe that his interests are purely personal and he probably will never cooperate with anyone he sees as "Roman." That's just the way he has been brought up.
He also obviously has a bee in his bonnet about the split and is worried what publicity impact might fall on his brother, as he is now a doctor. He's probably even worried about himself as he tries to make his way in life as a professional artist.
The moment you are part of their club, whether a member or X, you gain acceptance from him, because you know what it is like to forsake, go through grievances, etc.
Likewise, he would identify with certain ex-members' parents.
While it would be good to gain the cooperation of ex-members like him, it isn't entirely necessary. Desirable, but not necessary.
His choice not to co-operate is his own and so the best thing, I have come to realize, is let him do what he wants and me do what I want. We don't have to like it, but may just have to deal with it.
Really, I don't think it is necessary to mention him at all (unless in a historical context) or to criticize him publicly.
The Xmembers do need to understand that they were an important part of JC history, so we're not going to write them out of it, because of their complaints of "collateral damage."
But at the same time, we shouldn't be deliberately trying to target them or criticize them, because they don't share our viewpoint.
I think the best thing, would be if all sites didn't respond to each others comments. This constant need for revenge, tit for tat, is what is destroying the good work that has been done and still could be done.
It would be best if we could all work more cooperatively.
On another subject: notice that in my last post I used the word "evil" four times in referring to DM and his behavior. I want to emphasize this because it is noteworthy that DM himself does not believe in the concept of "evil."
My favorite (if I may use that word) asinine Jesus Christian quotes of all time are from a thread at the old welikejesus forum called "Does Evil Exist?" and are from David himself. It is very telling, painfully ironic, and gives us a clear window into David's mentality, and the mentalities of his cohorts. Of course, it is gone now, removed from the old mirror sites and therefore from the Web. Here is the entire quote, with with italics for emphasis at certain points:
As you probably know, I have used the same terminology that you have used, i.e. that God "created" evil, in order to give us something else to choose, but understanding that the WAY he created it is simply by giving us free choice shows us that evil is just something that comes from our abuse of free choice.
As for this idea about evil not existing, I have found it to be quite practical, especially when I was preaching in Kenya about superstition. The local pastors had encountered a LOT of superstition, which is, essentially, fear of the devil. And so the theme of my preaching was along the lines of recognising that the devil/evil is just the absence of God. When you turn the light on, you realise what a silly thing it is to be afraid of the devil... just like when a parent turns the light on in the bedroom of a child who has just had a nightmare. It doesn't take away ALL of the fear, but it is a very important step in overcoming fear... just to see how much of it is just in our imagination.
So DM does not believe that evil exists, just the abuse of free choice. David is telling us that there is no such thing as evil. Therefore, the JCs can do no wrong. Hmmm...I wonder, what did JESUS say on the matter, Apostle? Let's get out out concordance and look for instances of Jesus using the word "evil."
The above quote makes it abundantly clear to me that DM believes that whatever David McKay thinks is superior to what Jesus says. "I have found it to be quite practical." Of course you have. With this kind of mentality, one could justify doing just about anything one wants. A child could see that. But not DM, apparently.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2010 06:52AM by zeuszor.
He also obviously has a bee in his bonnet about the split and is worried what publicity impact might fall on his brother, as he is now a doctor. He's probably even worried about himself as he tries to make his way in life as a professional artist.
The moment you are part of their club, whether a member or X, you gain acceptance from him, because you know what it is like to forsake, go through grievances, etc.
Likewise, he would identify with certain ex-members' parents.
While it would be good to gain the cooperation of ex-members like him, it isn't entirely necessary. Desirable, but not necessary.
His choice not to co-operate is his own and so the best thing, I have come to realize, is let him do what he wants and me do what I want. We don't have to like it, but may just have to deal with it.
Really, I don't think it is necessary to mention him at all (unless in a historical context) or to criticize him publicly.
The Xmembers do need to understand that they were an important part of JC history, so we're not going to write them out of it, because of their complaints of "collateral damage."
But at the same time, we shouldn't be deliberately trying to target them or criticize them, because they don't share our viewpoint.
I think the best thing, would be if all sites didn't respond to each others comments. This constant need for revenge, tit for tat, is what is destroying the good work that has been done and still could be done.
It would be best if we could all work more cooperatively.
On another subject: notice that in my last post I used the word "evil" four times in referring to DM and his behavior. I want to emphasize this because it is noteworthy that DM himself does not believe in the concept of "evil."
My favorite (if I may use that word) asinine Jesus Christian quotes of all time are from a thread at the old welikejesus forum called "Does Evil Exist?" and are from David himself. It is very telling, painfully ironic, and gives us a clear window into David's mentality, and the mentalities of his cohorts. Of course, it is gone now, removed from the old mirror sites and therefore from the Web. Here is the entire quote, with with italics for emphasis at certain points:
As you probably know, I have used the same terminology that you have used, i.e. that God "created" evil, in order to give us something else to choose, but understanding that the WAY he created it is simply by giving us free choice shows us that evil is just something that comes from our abuse of free choice.
As for this idea about evil not existing, I have found it to be quite practical, especially when I was preaching in Kenya about superstition. The local pastors had encountered a LOT of superstition, which is, essentially, fear of the devil. And so the theme of my preaching was along the lines of recognising that the devil/evil is just the absence of God. When you turn the light on, you realise what a silly thing it is to be afraid of the devil... just like when a parent turns the light on in the bedroom of a child who has just had a nightmare. It doesn't take away ALL of the fear, but it is a very important step in overcoming fear... just to see how much of it is just in our imagination.
So DM does not believe that evil exists, just the abuse of free choice. David is telling us that there is no such thing as evil. Therefore, the JCs can do no wrong. Hmmm...I wonder, what did JESUS say on the matter, Apostle? Let's get out out concordance and look for instances of Jesus using the word "evil."
The above quote makes it abundantly clear to me that DM believes that whatever David McKay thinks is superior to what Jesus says. "I have found it to be quite practical." Of course you have. With this kind of mentality, one could justify doing just about anything one wants. A child could see that. But not DM, apparently.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2010 06:52AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Agur
()
Date: October 08, 2010 03:55PM
People may have noticed that McKay has once again gone into melt down mode over on his forum with his latest paranoid theories. McKay has suffered a new series of gross failures, rejections and disgraces in the past few months. 4 people (3 members and 1 child) have escaped his clutches and it appears as though another 2 others are working on the fringe here rather that under McKay's direct micro control. So McKay seems to have lost 6 people in a very short period of time. Could this be a direct result of his newly unglued thought process and his eagerness to engage with people he describes as mentally ill so long as they will act as his gofer, his cheerleader or his junk yard dog, when the rest of his group seems to withdraw in shame when he goes on ravings?
I see the group is degenerating into oblivion along with McKay’s failing mind. The group and McKay are going the way of his trashy booklets, most of which end up as toilet tissue for the homeless.
Not much should be needed to top McKay’s 2002 humiliation over his self created alter identity, Anita Foster, when this master manipulator was exposed for attempting to invent an identity to deceive the media and create some interest to his floundering fading group. For anyone interested, you can do a search on Dave McKay Anita Foster and read of McKay’s diabolical proposal to journalist and author Jon Ronson, who exposed McKay’s con game. But McKay seems to believe that because he creates alter identities that others must also do the same thing and currently he is going on about someone named Bryan from Scotland being a dirt gatherer. Perhaps McKay is paranoid or perhaps there IS just so much dirt to be gathered……?
McKay has already attacked this new person in his typical combative way, certain that it’s some conspiracy. Just last week it was another man named Peter Strong, who in anger, did publish some of McKay’s atrocious private emails, as this leader talked too much and too freely it appears, while he attempted to groom another young man into forsaking all for a life as a slave to McKay's warped fantasies. In reality, it seems people do drop into his forum after seeing the Jeremy Kyle program where McKay humilated himself once again and I suspect these visitors are genuine but they get driven away by McKay's horrible personality disorder. It’s pathetic how self important this idiot is, thinking people have nothing better to do than to try to gain access to his what???? 10 person cult? 6 person cult? Are people plotting to get his best recipes for bin raid soup? I forgot, McKay doesn't eat from bins does he? His members do. McKay sleeps and eats in comfort and in style compared to members like Ross who have posted about being cold and prepared to die of exposure. No, Master McKay doesn't live the life he demands of others. He doesn't hold himself to the same standards he demands of others, members and non members. McKay is a law unto himself and he answers to no one, not Jesus himself it seems. He surely doesn't obey Jesus commandments.
Many view McKay as one would view a train wreck….glad you are not involved yourself but can’t resist looking at the wreckage, feeling pity for the victims and hoping clean up starts soon.
There is a temptation to have some sympathy for McKay because despite the fact his mother said he was going to be the next Billy Graham, he’s now more likely to compared to Doink the Clown and his forum has become a complete circus as 2 unstable personalities play with each other when no one else can stand either of them. He is so fast becoming such a laughing stock as he seems to be unable to control his public weekly melt downs and he's tired out his own membership to the point where they are dumping him. His remaining members must wish McKay would stop throwing tantrums and carrying on spreading gossip and act like a man with some class and dignity. Berg will be rolling over in his grave to think his protege is such a total abject failure.
In light of the number of defectors, McKay will be soon be a doddering, mumbling old man, roaming the streets alone, trying to sell his worthless booklets, with only a ugly wilted little rose, desperatly clinging to his moth eaten clown suit.
I see the group is degenerating into oblivion along with McKay’s failing mind. The group and McKay are going the way of his trashy booklets, most of which end up as toilet tissue for the homeless.
Not much should be needed to top McKay’s 2002 humiliation over his self created alter identity, Anita Foster, when this master manipulator was exposed for attempting to invent an identity to deceive the media and create some interest to his floundering fading group. For anyone interested, you can do a search on Dave McKay Anita Foster and read of McKay’s diabolical proposal to journalist and author Jon Ronson, who exposed McKay’s con game. But McKay seems to believe that because he creates alter identities that others must also do the same thing and currently he is going on about someone named Bryan from Scotland being a dirt gatherer. Perhaps McKay is paranoid or perhaps there IS just so much dirt to be gathered……?
McKay has already attacked this new person in his typical combative way, certain that it’s some conspiracy. Just last week it was another man named Peter Strong, who in anger, did publish some of McKay’s atrocious private emails, as this leader talked too much and too freely it appears, while he attempted to groom another young man into forsaking all for a life as a slave to McKay's warped fantasies. In reality, it seems people do drop into his forum after seeing the Jeremy Kyle program where McKay humilated himself once again and I suspect these visitors are genuine but they get driven away by McKay's horrible personality disorder. It’s pathetic how self important this idiot is, thinking people have nothing better to do than to try to gain access to his what???? 10 person cult? 6 person cult? Are people plotting to get his best recipes for bin raid soup? I forgot, McKay doesn't eat from bins does he? His members do. McKay sleeps and eats in comfort and in style compared to members like Ross who have posted about being cold and prepared to die of exposure. No, Master McKay doesn't live the life he demands of others. He doesn't hold himself to the same standards he demands of others, members and non members. McKay is a law unto himself and he answers to no one, not Jesus himself it seems. He surely doesn't obey Jesus commandments.
Many view McKay as one would view a train wreck….glad you are not involved yourself but can’t resist looking at the wreckage, feeling pity for the victims and hoping clean up starts soon.
There is a temptation to have some sympathy for McKay because despite the fact his mother said he was going to be the next Billy Graham, he’s now more likely to compared to Doink the Clown and his forum has become a complete circus as 2 unstable personalities play with each other when no one else can stand either of them. He is so fast becoming such a laughing stock as he seems to be unable to control his public weekly melt downs and he's tired out his own membership to the point where they are dumping him. His remaining members must wish McKay would stop throwing tantrums and carrying on spreading gossip and act like a man with some class and dignity. Berg will be rolling over in his grave to think his protege is such a total abject failure.
In light of the number of defectors, McKay will be soon be a doddering, mumbling old man, roaming the streets alone, trying to sell his worthless booklets, with only a ugly wilted little rose, desperatly clinging to his moth eaten clown suit.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 08, 2010 07:53PM
Jim Roberts, Feroze Golwalla, Ole Anthony, Miller Newton, David McKay.
All of these men are narcissistic, predatory individuals who lead small, obscure cult groups, and who have a predilection for recruiting young kids, the children of persons other than themselves.
Golwalla is presently under house arrest and Ole Anthony is old and decrepit, and neither of these men is presently actively recruiting anybody.
Miller Newton lives in Madiera Beach, Florida and is now called Father Cassian; he is a priest in the Antiochan Orthodox Church. Newton has a small band of followers out there at his "church."
Jim Roberts, as always, is in hiding somewhere, and his cult has dwindled down to approximately 40 members. At their peak, the Roberts group had around 140 or so members to their number.
David McKay is also in hiding, and the JCs by present estimates are fewer than 30 in number and are shrinking rapidly.
All of the above are basically the same type of psychopathic personalities, but what sets McKay apart and makes him especially loathsome (to me) is this sadistic mean streak and smarminess that he has about him.
In my mind, there are basically, generally two kinds of cult leaders: those who believe in their own "shtick" and really think that they are doing the right thing, and those who know that they are full of it, but do not want anybody else to figure it out.
McKay is in the latter category, if you ask me. I do not believe that he actually gives a damn about what the Bible says on any given matter, only in the supremacy o his own opinions and whims.
He is a cynical, sadistic, psychopathic bad man, a monster, and I do not have to empathize with him or any of the rest of the aforementioned demoniac personalities.
If anybody reading this can tell me of one good quality that DM does possesses, that he does not use to try and hurt others, then please tell me. Because I can think of none.
All of these men are narcissistic, predatory individuals who lead small, obscure cult groups, and who have a predilection for recruiting young kids, the children of persons other than themselves.
Golwalla is presently under house arrest and Ole Anthony is old and decrepit, and neither of these men is presently actively recruiting anybody.
Miller Newton lives in Madiera Beach, Florida and is now called Father Cassian; he is a priest in the Antiochan Orthodox Church. Newton has a small band of followers out there at his "church."
Jim Roberts, as always, is in hiding somewhere, and his cult has dwindled down to approximately 40 members. At their peak, the Roberts group had around 140 or so members to their number.
David McKay is also in hiding, and the JCs by present estimates are fewer than 30 in number and are shrinking rapidly.
All of the above are basically the same type of psychopathic personalities, but what sets McKay apart and makes him especially loathsome (to me) is this sadistic mean streak and smarminess that he has about him.
In my mind, there are basically, generally two kinds of cult leaders: those who believe in their own "shtick" and really think that they are doing the right thing, and those who know that they are full of it, but do not want anybody else to figure it out.
McKay is in the latter category, if you ask me. I do not believe that he actually gives a damn about what the Bible says on any given matter, only in the supremacy o his own opinions and whims.
He is a cynical, sadistic, psychopathic bad man, a monster, and I do not have to empathize with him or any of the rest of the aforementioned demoniac personalities.
If anybody reading this can tell me of one good quality that DM does possesses, that he does not use to try and hurt others, then please tell me. Because I can think of none.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 08, 2010 08:27PM
Quote
Agur
There is a temptation to have some sympathy for McKay because despite the fact his mother said he was going to be the next Billy Graham...
From personal experience, I never give such person as DM or his croneys an even break, regardless of their sad circumstances. That would only serve to invite more of their same venom and life is far too short to get caught up in that vicious circle. I do not feel sorry for DM under any circumstance; he won't respond in kind. The 'rescuer' syndrome is a vale of tears for the rescuer.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2010 08:29PM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
yasmin
()
Date: October 08, 2010 10:51PM
Quote Zeuszor
"The ex members do need to understand that they were an important part of JC history,so we're not going to write them out of it because of their complaints of "collateral damage"
I think the reason for the decision of ex members not to cooperate with you probably lies in the above statement Zeuszor.
People rarely do choose to cooperate with those who state that they are willing to cause harm to them as "collateral damage"...
If the situations were reversed, and you had someone come to you requesting information that they explained ( very honestly) they were willing/going to use in ways that could cause personal harm to you; would you give it to them??
i do however applaud your sensible comment re accepting people will make different decisions and not needing to criticize them for it.
Agur , I think the "Anita Foster" thing, where Dave was apparently willing to pretend to be a mother who had lost a kid to the JCs and was having a hard time with it , very intriguing.
Puts the comments about people who do such things on the JC website in a whole different light, doesn't it. ( No, i am not saying Dave has MPD...Seems deeply unlikely that Peter whoever he was, genuine or not, has it either..)
I think last I heard Dave Mckay lives in a camper van like the other JCs. Don't know if he ever takes part in the recent "outreaches" without food though, where people had no food , and were not allowed to ask for food or raid rubbish bins, though they could eat offered food, or what was left behind on picnic tables.
Fairly arbitrary rules whose intention as far as one can tell was to make sure people were hungry at least some of the time.
all the best, Yasmin
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2010 10:53PM by yasmin.
"The ex members do need to understand that they were an important part of JC history,so we're not going to write them out of it because of their complaints of "collateral damage"
I think the reason for the decision of ex members not to cooperate with you probably lies in the above statement Zeuszor.
People rarely do choose to cooperate with those who state that they are willing to cause harm to them as "collateral damage"...
If the situations were reversed, and you had someone come to you requesting information that they explained ( very honestly) they were willing/going to use in ways that could cause personal harm to you; would you give it to them??
i do however applaud your sensible comment re accepting people will make different decisions and not needing to criticize them for it.
Agur , I think the "Anita Foster" thing, where Dave was apparently willing to pretend to be a mother who had lost a kid to the JCs and was having a hard time with it , very intriguing.
Puts the comments about people who do such things on the JC website in a whole different light, doesn't it. ( No, i am not saying Dave has MPD...Seems deeply unlikely that Peter whoever he was, genuine or not, has it either..)
I think last I heard Dave Mckay lives in a camper van like the other JCs. Don't know if he ever takes part in the recent "outreaches" without food though, where people had no food , and were not allowed to ask for food or raid rubbish bins, though they could eat offered food, or what was left behind on picnic tables.
Fairly arbitrary rules whose intention as far as one can tell was to make sure people were hungry at least some of the time.
all the best, Yasmin
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2010 10:53PM by yasmin.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 08, 2010 11:11PM
Quote
yasmin
People rarely do choose to cooperate with those who state that they are willing to cause harm to them as "collateral damage"
Please cite the source of this quote that you attribute to me; please show me where I stated that. You're gonna have a hard time, because I never did.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
yasmin
()
Date: October 09, 2010 12:35AM
Zeuszor????Huh? You just wrote it.
Direct quote from Zeuszor
"the ex members need to understand that they are an important part of JC history SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO WRITE THEM OUT OF IT DESPITE THEIR COMPLAINTS OF COLLATERAL DAMAGE"
You just said that you will continue to ignore the fact that they have complained that you have caused them collateral damage.
"We will continue..despite their complaints of collateral damage"
Hard to read it any other way Zeuszor...
What else could you have meant???
However; another long discussion ( again ) is no doubt going to go off topic which is after all about the group "the Jesus Christians"..If you want to continue this discussion perhaps we should start a new thread on the ethics of causing damage, whether "collateral" or not, to ex members. In mho, the whole idea is to protect all people from damage..
As it is, let us "focus like a lazer" on the actual topic "The Jesus Christian group"...
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2010 01:00AM by yasmin.
Direct quote from Zeuszor
"the ex members need to understand that they are an important part of JC history SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO WRITE THEM OUT OF IT DESPITE THEIR COMPLAINTS OF COLLATERAL DAMAGE"
You just said that you will continue to ignore the fact that they have complained that you have caused them collateral damage.
"We will continue..despite their complaints of collateral damage"
Hard to read it any other way Zeuszor...
What else could you have meant???
However; another long discussion ( again ) is no doubt going to go off topic which is after all about the group "the Jesus Christians"..If you want to continue this discussion perhaps we should start a new thread on the ethics of causing damage, whether "collateral" or not, to ex members. In mho, the whole idea is to protect all people from damage..
As it is, let us "focus like a lazer" on the actual topic "The Jesus Christian group"...
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2010 01:00AM by yasmin.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Agur
()
Date: October 09, 2010 02:55AM
From personal experience, I never give such person as DM or his croneys an even break, regardless of their sad circumstances. That would only serve to invite more of their same venom and life is far too short to get caught up in that vicious circle. I do not feel sorry for DM under any circumstance; he won't respond in kind. The 'rescuer' syndrome is a vale of tears for the rescuer.
~Above quote from zeuszor~
I could not agree with you more when you say that any attempt to show leniency or understanding for the twisted spectacle, David McKay, will lead to a vale of tears for the rescuer. Aptly put. McKay's poison forum is a lasting testament to his venom spiked verbal abuse against people. He is ruthless and remorseless but he seems to be unable to grasp that people become desensitized to his rants because they occur so frequently and all that changes is his target.
He also creates so many enemies there is no way he could ever be certain just who has finally had enough of his deceitful dirty tactics and decides to respond in kind. I believe he is attracting groupies who are mentally unstable and he is willing to use them to abuse and vilify people in ways he would be loathe to be seen to do.
One assumes that if any of his few remaining members are genuinely Christians, they secretly cringe when McKay goes on that attack against people, behaving more like a psychopath than a man of the Christian faith.
McKay seems to be coming completely unglued and has gotten significantly more mistrustful over the past few years, culminating in these mental collapses he displays for the World Wide Web to scoff at. It was not enough for him to be thoroughly made a fool of on the Jeremy Kyle show where he was humiliated in front of the millions who watch the show. Of course for those who missed Dave McKay’s on camera melt down, they can also view the clips on You Tube [www.youtube.com]. Dave McKay embarrassed himself coming across as belligerent and nearly hysterical, stomping off the stage while his critics sat in shock at this display of childish temper when he was not getting his own way and controlling the flow of discussion. His detractors react in shock while maintaining their composure and credibility. To his further indignity, McKay even failed to control his Jesus Christian members, who defied his order not to speak and basically talked around the rattled McKay, who desperately tried to block their view of the audience. It is hilarious to watch the clips and see his quiet spoken wife, try to calmly carry on the interview, in face of Dave McKay’s tantrum. He finally gives up in disgust and takes a seat trying to get himself back into the discussion. It must embarrass McKay endlessly that he can’t even control his 3 members on stage, they basically ignore him and work around him much as the current members seem to do in their outreach work. Ignore McKay, tolerate the old goat and try not to rile him up. Let him stay busy with his daily diatribes fighting phantoms on his forum and exchanging conspiracy theories with his one erratic groupie.
The Jeremy Kyle show does seem to cause a few curious people to come to the Jesus Christian site but thankfully Dave McKay can be counted on to scare them off with his combative, paranoid personality. The only person that seems to have come to stay is this unpopular woman who was only a couple weeks ago making videos condemning McKay and the Jesus Christians as terrorists and felons. She is worth a search on the internet and on these forums to determine exactly how trustworthy she is.
[truthaboutcorruption.blogspot.com]
[forum.culteducation.com]
I fully respect that this forum is to talk about the Jesus Christians but when you have someone who is doing what this woman is doing, on behalf of McKay, it merits letting people know what they are dealing with.
~Above quote from zeuszor~
I could not agree with you more when you say that any attempt to show leniency or understanding for the twisted spectacle, David McKay, will lead to a vale of tears for the rescuer. Aptly put. McKay's poison forum is a lasting testament to his venom spiked verbal abuse against people. He is ruthless and remorseless but he seems to be unable to grasp that people become desensitized to his rants because they occur so frequently and all that changes is his target.
He also creates so many enemies there is no way he could ever be certain just who has finally had enough of his deceitful dirty tactics and decides to respond in kind. I believe he is attracting groupies who are mentally unstable and he is willing to use them to abuse and vilify people in ways he would be loathe to be seen to do.
One assumes that if any of his few remaining members are genuinely Christians, they secretly cringe when McKay goes on that attack against people, behaving more like a psychopath than a man of the Christian faith.
McKay seems to be coming completely unglued and has gotten significantly more mistrustful over the past few years, culminating in these mental collapses he displays for the World Wide Web to scoff at. It was not enough for him to be thoroughly made a fool of on the Jeremy Kyle show where he was humiliated in front of the millions who watch the show. Of course for those who missed Dave McKay’s on camera melt down, they can also view the clips on You Tube [www.youtube.com]. Dave McKay embarrassed himself coming across as belligerent and nearly hysterical, stomping off the stage while his critics sat in shock at this display of childish temper when he was not getting his own way and controlling the flow of discussion. His detractors react in shock while maintaining their composure and credibility. To his further indignity, McKay even failed to control his Jesus Christian members, who defied his order not to speak and basically talked around the rattled McKay, who desperately tried to block their view of the audience. It is hilarious to watch the clips and see his quiet spoken wife, try to calmly carry on the interview, in face of Dave McKay’s tantrum. He finally gives up in disgust and takes a seat trying to get himself back into the discussion. It must embarrass McKay endlessly that he can’t even control his 3 members on stage, they basically ignore him and work around him much as the current members seem to do in their outreach work. Ignore McKay, tolerate the old goat and try not to rile him up. Let him stay busy with his daily diatribes fighting phantoms on his forum and exchanging conspiracy theories with his one erratic groupie.
The Jeremy Kyle show does seem to cause a few curious people to come to the Jesus Christian site but thankfully Dave McKay can be counted on to scare them off with his combative, paranoid personality. The only person that seems to have come to stay is this unpopular woman who was only a couple weeks ago making videos condemning McKay and the Jesus Christians as terrorists and felons. She is worth a search on the internet and on these forums to determine exactly how trustworthy she is.
[truthaboutcorruption.blogspot.com]
[forum.culteducation.com]
I fully respect that this forum is to talk about the Jesus Christians but when you have someone who is doing what this woman is doing, on behalf of McKay, it merits letting people know what they are dealing with.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 09, 2010 04:54AM
Quote
yasmin
Zeuszor????Huh? You just wrote it.
Direct quote from Zeuszor
"the ex members need to understand that they are an important part of JC history SO WE ARE NOT GOING TO WRITE THEM OUT OF IT DESPITE THEIR COMPLAINTS OF COLLATERAL DAMAGE"
You just said that you will continue to ignore the fact that they have complained that you have caused them collateral damage.
"We will continue..despite their complaints of collateral damage"
Hard to read it any other way Zeuszor...
What else could you have meant???
However; another long discussion ( again ) is no doubt going to go off topic which is after all about the group "the Jesus Christians"..If you want to continue this discussion perhaps we should start a new thread on the ethics of causing damage, whether "collateral" or not, to ex members. In mho, the whole idea is to protect all people from damage..
As it is, let us "focus like a lazer" on the actual topic "The Jesus Christian group"...
Yasmin, you have developed a pattern of either misrepresenting something that I did write to cast it in a negative light, or else attributing me as having written something that I never wrote at all. I can find and cite for you numerous examples of this, and this is what you are doing now. It gets on my nerves, so please stop it.
I have met many ex-members of the JCS who have told me a lot of things about what it's like as a member, my friend Malcolm among them. You know not of what you write on that point. The only ones that have given me no cooperation at all are McKay's kid and those involved in the split.
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Agar
Dave McKay embarrassed himself coming across as belligerent and nearly hysterical, stomping off the stage while his critics sat in shock at this display of childish temper when he was not getting his own way and controlling the flow of discussion. His detractors react in shock while maintaining their composure and credibility. To his further indignity, McKay even failed to control his Jesus Christian members, who defied his order not to speak and basically talked around the rattled McKay, who desperately tried to block their view of the audience. It is hilarious to watch the clips and see his quiet spoken wife, try to calmly carry on the interview, in face of Dave McKay’s tantrum. He finally gives up in disgust and takes a seat trying to get himself back into the discussion.
Thanks for your recent contributions, Agar. And the funny thing about it is, that it was DAVE'S idea to bring me on Jeremy Kyle to begin with! He thought that he could trick me into revealing my sources' names and then it all blew up in his face. Hence, Cult Leader Humiliates Himself.
[forum.culteducation.com]
When I was on the JK show, DM started to babble about masturbation: "Who masturbates? Who masturbates?" He cried out while waving his hand up in the air as is to say "Me too!" Now I shall tell you about the exact context in which wanking was brought up as a topic for discussion. I remember it vividly, and that stuff never made it into the final cut, or therefore on the air.
It was close to the end of the show, and L was telling the audience about some of the odd particulars of JC doctrine; she told of how the males in the JCs are pressured into getting vasectomies, also she told about how DM encourages people to masturbate, not just that it was allowed, but encouraged. Of course all of the JCs on stage denied these things and said that she was lying.
L looked incredulous and disgusted. She said impatiently, "But it's on your website Dave. The whole world can read about it." Then DM said something like, "OK, I admit it. That's true. I masturbate. Who else masturbates? Who masturbates?" He was grinning and waving his arm in the air. Then he said "No, better yet, who in the audience HAS masturbated?"
There was a gasp of shock and disgust from the audience, a grumble of discomfort at DM's display of lack of self-control for shock value. L puckered her lips as if to express profound contempt. G. Baldwin shook his head ruefully. I simply stared at DM in amazement because I nearly literally couldn't believe what I was witnessing. J. Kyle told Dave that he was acting perverse and childish.
DM just giggled like he was pleased with himself, and the other JCs on stage laughed on cue also. It was a bizarre scene.
I think that DM must be somebody who is on the autistic spectrum. His lack of empathy, trouble with "theory of mind," his complete self-centeredness, his high intelligence and hyperlexicality, talent as a writer, lack of impulse control and social skills, it's all there. Yes, I say that he's on the spectrum. Add to that a deeply ingrained personality disorder (NPD) on top of all that and we have a very very dangerous combination.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2010 05:11AM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: October 09, 2010 05:32AM
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zeuszor
I have met many ex-members of the JCS who have told me a lot of things about what it's like as a member, my friend Malcolm among them. You know not of what you write on that point. The only ones that have given me no cooperation at all are McKay's kid and those involved in the split.
OK, for me to have written "many" exmembers was an overstatement on my part. I have met and spoken with a handful, several, and one recent ex-member in particular.
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