Adrian,
Can you explain those links? They are a profile of terrorist activity. It is not my opinion, it is right there in plain sight.

If it were only my opinion, then you could provide an alternative explanation for those links.

So far, not ONE person has been able to do that. Every single person who has defended the McKay cult against my assertion that this is indeed a terrorist cult has limited himself to demanding that I be silenced. No one has offered any other explanation for those links.

It is reasonable to assume that people who defend McKay are still members of the cult, but it is also reasonable to think that they are people who left the cult but who don't want to believe anything really serious happened, beyond having wasted their time. Sometimes we have to tell ourselves this because we do not want to face the reality of how deeply we were fooled and how dangerous was our former situation.

I appeal to each one who defends the McKay cult to consider that if you cannot think about those links and offer any kind of explanation for them, then some actual thought-blockage must be going on. It is not rational to be so upset that you demand someone be silenced if you cannot actually defend the intellectual reason why the other person is wrong in your eyes. To be "offended" is to feel, not to think. You should be able to move beyond feeling offended and be able to think about those links and offer a different explanation. You should be able to reclaim your ability to think, and not be a cult-puppet of "feelings".

"Why would Dave agree to be interviewed by an obscure blogger? Simple. He loves publicity and will agree to be interviewed by practically anyone!"

Quote
zeuszor
http://jesus-teachings.com/forum/5-controversies/35801-us-congress-proposes-law-to-shut-down-internet#35804

The internet is probably the biggest headache for governments desperate to control the flow of information unfavorable to them.
Laws to try and ban certain websites like China already does are being proposed in Australia.
Given that Kevin Rudd has a secret reputation as a control freak it is not surprising that they want to censor the net and also get access to all our personal information by requiring ISP's to store it so that the Police can spy on anyone they like from their office computer without requiring a search warrant of any kind.
The internet is probably the last bastion of freedom of speech left in the western world

A few more thoughts...

Ross means well, I am sure, but unfortunately criminals love people like him, who make their job so much easier by opposing control orders and additional police powers. Maybe if and when he finally breaks with the JCs for good, Ross could join up with some organization like the F.R.E.E. Australia Party.

There was, for example, recently a case in Australia where a terrorist group was planning to invade an Army base. It took seven months of intelligence work to uncover the plot, using telephone taps, etc. If police and government powers didn't have special powers to deal with certain groups, then we would simply end with the consequences. Loss of life, etc.

Ross is apparently worried that those powers could be used against innocent people, but the reality is that the police don't have enough resources to keep an eye on all criminal and terrorist groups, let alone be worried about welfare fraudsters like the McKays.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2010 06:31AM by zeuszor.

Quote
dsm
It is reasonable to assume that people who defend McKay are still members of the cult, but it is also reasonable to think that they are people who left the cult but who don't want to believe anything really serious happened, beyond having wasted their time. Sometimes we have to tell ourselves this because we do not want to face the reality of how deeply we were fooled and how dangerous was our former situation.

I appeal to each one who defends the McKay cult to consider that if you cannot think about those links and offer any kind of explanation for them, then some actual thought-blockage must be going on. It is not rational to be so upset that you demand someone be silenced if you cannot actually defend the intellectual reason why the other person is wrong in your eyes. To be "offended" is to feel, not to think. You should be able to move beyond feeling offended and be able to think about those links and offer a different explanation. You should be able to reclaim your ability to think, and not be a cult-puppet of "feelings".

This is one of the best posts that I have seen here in a long time. Thank you, dsm.

Hi dsm,
Thanks for your explanation about the terrorist links. However, I'm not convinced that he's a terrorist. He definitely has the power to act like a terrorist but I don't think that's his motive. I am definitely against his tactics but I think calling him a terrorist will only help to further enslave his followers. It is well known that he is an attention seeker, so perhaps that's his motive.

Dear DSM,

While I have no "evidence" that David McKay is NOT doing as you suspect:

I believe that McKay may be using some back-channel method to filter vulnerable personalities into the jihadists' cults, which are known to pay bounties to the families of their jihad "martyrs".

No one has offered any other explanation for their existence.

Does McKay have any financial benefits coming in from some odd corners of the world? Some "converts" out of the jihadist neck of the woods? Some joint activities with odd little charities? Anything like that at all?

Fact: if some young man in a city that included both Muslim and JC proselytizers were to shift over to a Muslim instead of a JC group, McKay would never be suspected of participating in delivering martyr-fodder to the jihadists by influencing such a decision while he might be collecting bounties.


I DO have some evidence that David will endeavour to use (unproven) accusations against him, as "proof" that his critics lack credibility...

Critics can point to virtually any group and any individual and issue
warnings about virtually anything they do, and how it could lead to
worse behaviours. But if no hard evidence is presented that they are
actually doing bad things, then it's all spurious. Our community,
for example, has existed for about 30 years. In that time, we must
surely have done some pretty awful things if we are really a
dangerous cult. But if, after thirty years of existence, our critics
are only warning people about what our behaviour could lead to, it's
a pretty sure bet that they are abusing the slippery slope argument.


[www.jesuschristians.com]


The "dangerous things" that we KNOW David has engaged in, is the practise of Fraud (personal financial gain) through false pretences (i.e. the claims he makes about himself and his "empire"), and in particular he operates a business for himself based on the entrapment of young lives in invountary servitude to him through unconscionable contracts (they imagine that "worshipping David" (here giving their lives to him in unpaid service)....somehow "furthers" Gods work in this world)

David, by my count would have been actually engaged in this criminal deceit for some 50 years now! (NOT 30.....however I realize that the stupid old goat is several (full!) bricks short of a load now...and that he may have consequently lost some simple skills of enumeration!))

David certainly has done a HUGE number of "very awful things".....(you will note, of course, DSM, David's transparent use of sarcasm here in an attempt to belittle the credibility of those who speak out against him......and the (coldly calculated illogic) of claiming that the accusations against him are ALL spurious, if even one of them is spurious

This self-serving circular reasoning, is as you would understand, simply the tactics that David has been regurgitating (from BERG and other cult figures that he emulates) for the course of his entire life.....in order to persuade those who are unaware of his background (and who may be potential "disciple material" for him) that he is being "unreasonably persecuted"...


Your links would not suffice for a criminal prosecution to be filed with the Dept of Homeland Security (however you are certainly welcome to try...please advise me of how successful you are here@) hence I must agree with Adrian that "labelling" David as a terroist, would actually (as you may see from McKays' own writings) merely be twisted to "protest his innocence....."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2010 11:52AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Dsm;
Re your theory that the Jesus Christians are in fact supporting an islamic cult involved with Jihad, who are interested in having members commit suicide so as to convert the world to Islam; it does on the face of it seem very unlikely.
Perhaps a little more information about their belief systems would be helpful?
I'm not an ex member and your request for information from ex members can only be answered by Malcolm here as no other ex member currently posts here.

However my understanding is that the Jesus Christians are a christian belief based group that believes in the idea of revelation (supposed, I think per their belief system to be coming quite soon) and there have been suggestions that Dave Mckay may be considered first apostle?

It is therefore unlikely that any member of the Jesus Christians would feel that suicide to help convert the world to Islam conveyed any religious benefit at all.

They have however historically been very interested in publicity from a variety of sources.They recently had a member on a lifestyle swapping show, and have been on one of the talk show host shows as well. A radical blogger interviewing many radical groups would appear to be likely to be (as Zeuszors quote from Kevin on the xjc site explained so clearly) part of fairly typical behavior to increase publicity.

It may be that you have reason to believe differently.If so , i think many ex members and family would be very interested to hear whatever information you could give them.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2010 12:24PM by yasmin.

David McKay is a liar, a criminal child abuser, a fraudulent con man, a coward, and an all-around evil son of a bitch. If there is one thing that David McKay is not, however, he is not a "terrorist" nor are the JCs a "terrorist cult." Even I have never gone so far as to describe them as such. Or, at the very least, the JCs are not a "terrorists" as defined according to the parlance of our times. Even zeuszor has to agree that such verbiage is far from accurate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2010 12:35PM by zeuszor.

Dear DSM,

I must applaud your description of a McKay as a "useful nincompoop"....although I would see him as a "useful nincompoop" for Satan generally, rather than any specific uber terroist at this point in time....if you'll let me "lay my case"

(...and you'll have to forgive my "Judge Judy" mannerisms for the moment.......!)...

(1)

David McKay is desperately short of "disciples"....he can barely manage to operate his own little cult....

The "kidney" (or whatever else he can "harvest") donations have not stopped because McKay has had some sort of "change of heart"...

...they have stopped because McKay has literally "mined" his existing supply of kidneys to exhaustion....there are no other "spare kidneys" to hock

There are no disciples "loose" that he could spare to intentionally/unintentionally to have siphoned off for the purposes of another organization.

(2)

The existing "souls" at his disposal, live on next to nothing (still eating refuse in the name of "freegansim"?)...and provide him with the workforce of a small to medium size, (around 20 "staff")....marketing agency to sell himself.....he could not "make" more money by disposing of them in the "suicide bomber" market(or what have you).....they are worth far more to him as devoted slaves....

(3)

I again agree with Zeusor (and I have heard McKay literally say it himself) that ANY publicity is "good" publicity....and he would probably happily appear in an Al-Qaeeda video (right after the captives head is sadistically cut off)....if he thought that he could bring himself any sort of notoriety out of it (and of course he would later claim that he had "no idea" what purposes, his interview would be put to....and that he had only wanted to promote "goodwill and understanding" blah,blah, blah.....whatever fabrication he considered most likely to be believed....) hence the "links" you cite (..and which I'm having some trouble either opening or finding the particular "interviews" you mention....would you be able to copy them over direct to this site...thanks!)


The world of "McKay" and the world of "Bin Laden".....(feudal societies, where a "a sacred aristocracy" rule over the "ignorant masses" who live without rights or representation).....are remarkably similar.....

There are certainly no "good" reasons why McKay would not consider acting as you have suggested.... (i.e. ethical objections)

However there are several, substantial "bad" ones"!!!




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2010 04:55PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Oh...


....and I must note that David's self description of his own organization dating from the "1980" (i.e. thirty years ago)

is a little Freudian slip on his part.....

I of course would date his cult from the onset of his(Narcissistic) Personality Disorder dating from around his teenage years, from the accounts of his mother and the examples of when he tried "infiltrating" the student Bible Study Group, etc....i.e. some fifty years ago....!

David though is, as you would understand, dating his own little cult from the period when he first had members he could count on, outside his own immediate family (i.e. Neville, then Ross and I, in Christmas of '81) under his "tutelage".....some twenty years later when he is in his mid-30's...

The years and years spent, as front man for the Children of God in Broken Hill, ultimately meaning nothing to him of course....

because David's OWN definition of when his empire begins is

primarily concerned with the point at which, he has individual souls at his beck and call....

...all the preceding "theory" and " spiritual enlightenment" he claims to have undergone,

...of course really meaning, absolutely nothing to him.......!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2010 05:20PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.