Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: May 25, 2010 08:25PM
Cherry has been incapacitated for many years now. For a long time now, she has not been a younger or middle-aged woman who can take the reins and make a new life for herself. She made her choice many years ago, at the urgings of her young children, to stay with Dave McKay. What mother would do otherwise?
Her choice has destroyed her life. She has lost contact, because of her husband, with all her children but one. She has no choice now, as an older and physically dependent woman, but to concentrate on the one remaining child she has with her. Some mothers in this situation would maintain a covert relationship with their children, but because of Cherry's strict moral code, she cannot lie or do anything dishonest.
All she can do is try to steer the cult in as best direction she can, given that she is married to a semi-retired narcissistic Cult Leader. Even when she tries to join in with the Forum, her husband comes in and corrects her.
But she has no choice. She made this decision under duress many years ago, and that was because of a decision she made with complete free will over 40 years ago.
She didn't know she was looking at a rattlesnake....
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2010 08:45PM by Blackhat.
Her choice has destroyed her life. She has lost contact, because of her husband, with all her children but one. She has no choice now, as an older and physically dependent woman, but to concentrate on the one remaining child she has with her. Some mothers in this situation would maintain a covert relationship with their children, but because of Cherry's strict moral code, she cannot lie or do anything dishonest.
All she can do is try to steer the cult in as best direction she can, given that she is married to a semi-retired narcissistic Cult Leader. Even when she tries to join in with the Forum, her husband comes in and corrects her.
But she has no choice. She made this decision under duress many years ago, and that was because of a decision she made with complete free will over 40 years ago.
She didn't know she was looking at a rattlesnake....
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2010 08:45PM by Blackhat.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: May 25, 2010 10:24PM
Very good post, Blackhat.
[www.youtube.com]
In my opinion, Cherry has chosen to be where she is, she has chosen to do what she is doing, and she knows exactly what she is doing. She psychologically bonded with DM years ago, and has identified with him. She is now an "inverted narcissist" or "co-narcissist." Read the stuff here about co-narcissism and introjection:
[samvak.tripod.com]
She has, in my opinion, been complicit to a great many misdeeds, and is therefore every bit as accountable for what DM has done over the years as is DM himself.
Almost every day, up until they went into hiding, David and Cherry used to walk to McDonalds. They both got newspapers. They hardly spoke with each other while they read the papers. They both had drinks. Cherry sometimes ate fries. Then they wandered back to their old flat seemingly without a care in the world. They looked for all the world like a retired couple from Florida, complete with the shorts and T Shirts.
They had to walk up two flights of very steep concrete stairs crossing a park on the way back to their flat. Cherry didn't always hold the handrail, but walked up unaided, probably because they didn't think that they were being observed and recorded. Interesting, considering she had a cane with her on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
DM and Cherry in my opinion are typical welfare cheats, but legally proving it is another thing. They have been cheating the Australian welfare system for years. Centrelink unfortunately allows operators like David and Cherry to exploit that system. They are hypocrites to push the forsake all and don't work for money message as well. They basically make a living out of exploiting every loophole in the system that they can find. And they are living off of the money of the Australian taxpayer. That means you, Blackhat.
Oh, and you never answered my question: have you ever actually met a present-day member of the JCs, Blackhat?
Everything that we do to try and undermine the cult, undermines Kevin's ability to reconcile things with his father, and to communicate and have a relationship with his mother.
In all honesty, I think that is is very much unrealistic for him to expect that he will ever have any type of "normal" relationship with either his parents, if only he somehow reasons with them enough. Experience and history has shown that that will simply never happen. One may as well try and reason with a rock.
I guess with Kevin too, blood is still thicker than water. Dave and Cherry are still Mum and Dad. It's a sad situation, and I feel bad for him. But I am not going to stop working against the cult, regardless.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2010 10:34PM by zeuszor.
[www.youtube.com]
In my opinion, Cherry has chosen to be where she is, she has chosen to do what she is doing, and she knows exactly what she is doing. She psychologically bonded with DM years ago, and has identified with him. She is now an "inverted narcissist" or "co-narcissist." Read the stuff here about co-narcissism and introjection:
[samvak.tripod.com]
She has, in my opinion, been complicit to a great many misdeeds, and is therefore every bit as accountable for what DM has done over the years as is DM himself.
Almost every day, up until they went into hiding, David and Cherry used to walk to McDonalds. They both got newspapers. They hardly spoke with each other while they read the papers. They both had drinks. Cherry sometimes ate fries. Then they wandered back to their old flat seemingly without a care in the world. They looked for all the world like a retired couple from Florida, complete with the shorts and T Shirts.
They had to walk up two flights of very steep concrete stairs crossing a park on the way back to their flat. Cherry didn't always hold the handrail, but walked up unaided, probably because they didn't think that they were being observed and recorded. Interesting, considering she had a cane with her on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
DM and Cherry in my opinion are typical welfare cheats, but legally proving it is another thing. They have been cheating the Australian welfare system for years. Centrelink unfortunately allows operators like David and Cherry to exploit that system. They are hypocrites to push the forsake all and don't work for money message as well. They basically make a living out of exploiting every loophole in the system that they can find. And they are living off of the money of the Australian taxpayer. That means you, Blackhat.
Oh, and you never answered my question: have you ever actually met a present-day member of the JCs, Blackhat?
Everything that we do to try and undermine the cult, undermines Kevin's ability to reconcile things with his father, and to communicate and have a relationship with his mother.
In all honesty, I think that is is very much unrealistic for him to expect that he will ever have any type of "normal" relationship with either his parents, if only he somehow reasons with them enough. Experience and history has shown that that will simply never happen. One may as well try and reason with a rock.
I guess with Kevin too, blood is still thicker than water. Dave and Cherry are still Mum and Dad. It's a sad situation, and I feel bad for him. But I am not going to stop working against the cult, regardless.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2010 10:34PM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
yasmin
()
Date: May 25, 2010 10:41PM
Quote from Zeuszor
"Everything that we do to try and undermine the cult undermines Kevins' ability to reconcile things wiht his father and to communicate and have a relationhip with his mother"
Actually Zeuszor, probably exactly the opposite.All their chances of having a normal family relationship probably increases with the group out of the picture.
And per Kevin, Cherry had tried to leave the group. As Blackhat pointed out, with children in the picture, she made a choice many mothers might make.
"Everything that we do to try and undermine the cult undermines Kevins' ability to reconcile things wiht his father and to communicate and have a relationhip with his mother"
Actually Zeuszor, probably exactly the opposite.All their chances of having a normal family relationship probably increases with the group out of the picture.
And per Kevin, Cherry had tried to leave the group. As Blackhat pointed out, with children in the picture, she made a choice many mothers might make.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: May 25, 2010 10:52PM
Quote
yasmin
Actually Zeuszor, probably exactly the opposite.All their chances of having a normal family relationship probably increases with the group out of the picture.
DM hates anything that he cannot control. Somebody like DM is actually incapable of having truly reciprocal relationships with others. People like DM do not have friends, they only have fans, and only see opportunities. This is the nature of the malignant narcissist.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: May 25, 2010 11:24PM
Dear Zeusor and Blackhat,
Thank you for your thoughtful observations...
While I was in the JesusChristians, the operations in India began (I was never invited to take part...having fallen foul of David by that stage, as less "devoted" that I should be)......David routinely claimed unemployment benefits in Cherry's name (i.e. the payment for a couple was far higher than what David would have received as an individual) despite the fact that she (or other members of the JC's) were routinely out of Australia for months and months at a time.....David (AND Cherry!)were knowingly defrauding the Aust. Govt. On one occasion Cherry had only just returned from India when a Fraud Inspector turned up on the door step of the house in Paddington Sydney that very afternoon (David wasn't able to forge Cherry's signature particularly well....and the Dept of Social Security in Aust. must have begun questioning the bogus applications David was tendering....
Cherry's "strict moral code" that Blackhat writes of, preventing her from "lying" or "doing anything dishonest" ...is more wishful thinking than factual description, (in my experience)...
.....you Blackhat, may only have had occasion to meet "nice" Cherry...
The "child" that Cherry now "devotes herself to"...of course being an adult woman, possibly old to the point that she is almost incapable of having children of her own now (David having assured Christine that time "wasted" on offsrping was time stolen from "Kingdom building"...Cherry mutely nodding in the background).....I still suspect that Christine will one day suffer a nervous breakdown once she realizes how David (and Cherry?) have simply "used" her over the course of their lives....
Notwithstanding, I do take your point though Blackhat that the (if perhaps only IMO, stupid) woman deserves a modicum of sympathy.....regrettably she will likely in full dementia, by the time David passes on....unless of course she happens to have somehow stumbled across that old classic "Arsenic and Old Lace", along the line...hmm, mmmmm....!
[www.youtube.com]
...I think you really have captured the "crux" of the matter here, Zeuszor....Kevin it would appear, is primarily interested in re-establishing relations with his mother (Opedius complex?).....hence this colors his view of all the "negative" comments that are made here, and which might "unreasonably" threaten his progress in this regard.......once David is dead and the JC cult no longer threatens the lives of other young people.... I too, will certainly support him in this endeavour (Cherry as I mention, is likely to be severely "cerebally challenged" by that point in time , I suspect....Kevins family though, would be a far better option than a nursing home),
The Rickross site, is a professional resource, that in my opinion,
is enormously influential in UNDERMINING the credibility of any number of cults....
....presumably Kevin would not mind how many other "Joe Johnsons" are trapped into years of servitude with McKay, just as long as Kevin can somehow be "reunited" with his family,
(and while he "re-connects"....NO adverse remarks in relation to David, that Kevin has not either made himself or authorized, ...PLEASE! For God's sake....Don't spoil it all!)
....like you Zeuszor this is not a perspective that I can currrently share...
Thank you for your thoughtful observations...
While I was in the JesusChristians, the operations in India began (I was never invited to take part...having fallen foul of David by that stage, as less "devoted" that I should be)......David routinely claimed unemployment benefits in Cherry's name (i.e. the payment for a couple was far higher than what David would have received as an individual) despite the fact that she (or other members of the JC's) were routinely out of Australia for months and months at a time.....David (AND Cherry!)were knowingly defrauding the Aust. Govt. On one occasion Cherry had only just returned from India when a Fraud Inspector turned up on the door step of the house in Paddington Sydney that very afternoon (David wasn't able to forge Cherry's signature particularly well....and the Dept of Social Security in Aust. must have begun questioning the bogus applications David was tendering....
Cherry's "strict moral code" that Blackhat writes of, preventing her from "lying" or "doing anything dishonest" ...is more wishful thinking than factual description, (in my experience)...
.....you Blackhat, may only have had occasion to meet "nice" Cherry...
The "child" that Cherry now "devotes herself to"...of course being an adult woman, possibly old to the point that she is almost incapable of having children of her own now (David having assured Christine that time "wasted" on offsrping was time stolen from "Kingdom building"...Cherry mutely nodding in the background).....I still suspect that Christine will one day suffer a nervous breakdown once she realizes how David (and Cherry?) have simply "used" her over the course of their lives....
Notwithstanding, I do take your point though Blackhat that the (if perhaps only IMO, stupid) woman deserves a modicum of sympathy.....regrettably she will likely in full dementia, by the time David passes on....unless of course she happens to have somehow stumbled across that old classic "Arsenic and Old Lace", along the line...hmm, mmmmm....!
[www.youtube.com]
...I think you really have captured the "crux" of the matter here, Zeuszor....Kevin it would appear, is primarily interested in re-establishing relations with his mother (Opedius complex?).....hence this colors his view of all the "negative" comments that are made here, and which might "unreasonably" threaten his progress in this regard.......once David is dead and the JC cult no longer threatens the lives of other young people.... I too, will certainly support him in this endeavour (Cherry as I mention, is likely to be severely "cerebally challenged" by that point in time , I suspect....Kevins family though, would be a far better option than a nursing home),
The Rickross site, is a professional resource, that in my opinion,
is enormously influential in UNDERMINING the credibility of any number of cults....
....presumably Kevin would not mind how many other "Joe Johnsons" are trapped into years of servitude with McKay, just as long as Kevin can somehow be "reunited" with his family,
(and while he "re-connects"....NO adverse remarks in relation to David, that Kevin has not either made himself or authorized, ...PLEASE! For God's sake....Don't spoil it all!)
....like you Zeuszor this is not a perspective that I can currrently share...
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: May 25, 2010 11:48PM
This thread is not about Keven McKay.
This thread is about Dave McKay and his group.
Cherry McKay in my opinion is a pitiful person, completely controlled by her husband. Watching her on British television, she came across as quite weak, servile and in complete submission to McKay.
Keven McKay wants a relationship with his mother. Most people do want a relationship with their parents. Please stop judging and bashing Kevin McKay for this.
What is happening to Joe Johnson is Dave McKay's doing and not his estranged son's responsibility.
Let's try to employ some compassion and understanding here regarding the people hurt by Dave McKay, which includes his family.
This thread is about Dave McKay and his group.
Cherry McKay in my opinion is a pitiful person, completely controlled by her husband. Watching her on British television, she came across as quite weak, servile and in complete submission to McKay.
Keven McKay wants a relationship with his mother. Most people do want a relationship with their parents. Please stop judging and bashing Kevin McKay for this.
What is happening to Joe Johnson is Dave McKay's doing and not his estranged son's responsibility.
Let's try to employ some compassion and understanding here regarding the people hurt by Dave McKay, which includes his family.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: May 26, 2010 01:55AM
Quote
zeuszor
http://blog.vici.ro/2010/05/23/a-new-economic-policy-dave-mckay/
Dave McKay and his wife, Cherry, are co-founders of a string
of religious communities located in Kenya, England,
Australia, and the United States. He is the author of a novel
“Survivors” which has recently sold one million copies.
See, that's how it's done. That's part of how I undermine the group. I have Google Alerts send me infomation based on the appearance of certain key words on the Internet. The other day, Google sent me an alert about a webpage in which some fellow was endorsing DM and his "religious community." Then I posted some information to the man's blog. I let him know that he was helping to endorse an abusive cult. Within 24 hours, the man had removed the webpage and retracted his endoresement. Anytime cerain key words appear on the internet and Google sends me an alert, I shall continue to do the same thing. I am watching you, David.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: May 26, 2010 03:52AM
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: May 26, 2010 04:03AM
Quote
rrmoderator
This thread is not about Keven McKay.
This thread is about Dave McKay and his group.
Cherry McKay in my opinion is a pitiful person, completely controlled by her husband. Watching her on British television, she came across as quite weak, servile and in complete submission to McKay.
Keven McKay wants a relationship with his mother. Most people do want a relationship with their parents. Please stop judging and bashing Kevin McKay for this.
What is happening to Joe Johnson is Dave McKay's doing and not his estranged son's responsibility.
Let's try to employ some compassion and understanding here regarding the people hurt by Dave McKay, which includes his family.
This is exactly the XJC hidden agenda that I've been writing of all along.
OK, I'll write no more about the matter.
Kevin seems to think that I am every bit as unprincipled and evil as his father. He sits at his support group and bashes me, so I respond here. i cannot respond there.
So tell you what, Kevin, I cannot defend myself over there, as I've been banned. You can come over here to defend yourself any time you want.
So I'll drop it between us if you will. Don't mention my name there, and I'll not mention yours here.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: May 26, 2010 07:21AM
MODERATOR!!!
This repeated question is against the repeated requests from the moderator for you to stay on the topic.
I don't like the way you hold people to answer your questions, Brian, as it is an intimidating way of trying to control a situation, and reminds me of the way David McKay tries to control people by collecting information about them.
You once tried to bully me into revealing my identity to you, and when I refused, you responded by posting my private messages and my email address on the internet, thus blowing my cover.
Some "Secret" Agent!
However, on this occasion I will CHOOSE to reveal that I have met with one active Jesus Christian for around two hours, and on another occasion about 18 months later I met with one for around 15 minutes. The who and where remain classified information, as they were not aware of my identity, and I would like it to remain that way.
Now, let's stay on topic, and please stop breaking the forum rules by repeatedly asking posters personal questions. Other posters have been banned for far less than this.
Quote
Oh, and you never answered my question: have you ever actually met a present-day member of the JCs, Blackhat?
This repeated question is against the repeated requests from the moderator for you to stay on the topic.
I don't like the way you hold people to answer your questions, Brian, as it is an intimidating way of trying to control a situation, and reminds me of the way David McKay tries to control people by collecting information about them.
You once tried to bully me into revealing my identity to you, and when I refused, you responded by posting my private messages and my email address on the internet, thus blowing my cover.
Some "Secret" Agent!
However, on this occasion I will CHOOSE to reveal that I have met with one active Jesus Christian for around two hours, and on another occasion about 18 months later I met with one for around 15 minutes. The who and where remain classified information, as they were not aware of my identity, and I would like it to remain that way.
Now, let's stay on topic, and please stop breaking the forum rules by repeatedly asking posters personal questions. Other posters have been banned for far less than this.
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