Other especially (IMO) disturbing articles include "Les Byron," "The Politics of Suicide," "Deathbed Conversions," "No Pain, No Gain," "Ananiases," "A Martyr Complex," and "Reject Us, Reject God." Let's not leave out the infamous "Divine Authority," either.

[jesuschristians.net]

There's a real undercurrent of negativity in all of these writings, and this subtle expressed assumption that life is all pain and suffering. Allusions to death and self-mortification all over the place. This stuff is just replete with references to death, martyrdom, suffering. I read no joy, or optimism in these writings, only cynicism and condescension.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2009 10:25AM by zeuszor.

For what it's worth, these quotes may be the references some folk are recalling:

apostate said:

"Oh yeah, I just remembered a time in India when we all lined up and hit each other in the face so we could practice turning the other cheek, or that Dave taught us all to have "flee bags" where we could run away quickly from trouble... such is the motivation of fear which drives their running regimes.

Funny thing was this was around the same time Dave was fantasizing about shooting a rampaging rioter from his house balcony. Today he justifies this line of reasoning maintaining that it is indeed a "Christian" action because it would be loving to kill someone who was going to kill someone else."

[forum.culteducation.com]


and Dave is quoted from his web site as saying:

"I think it was around the same time when I was in India and there were some dangerous riots going on. We had a balcony overlooking a busy street, where a parade was coming, and I kind of had a fantasy about a crazed killer going down the street shooting or stabbing people, and me with a rifle there on the balcony. Would I shoot the guy? Although I would hope that I could just cripple the guy enough to let others get away, I felt at peace with the thought that, if necessary, I would probably go ahead and kill him. I shared it with others in the community, and I think there was a pretty strong reaction against it. Nevertheless, I still feel that way today."

[welikejesus.com]

(this link was posted to this posting, but it now returns an error!)

Also from apostate:

"I also read this morning Dave's account of the balcony "vision" in which he fantasized shooting a rampaging rioter with a sniper rifle which he's describing now as just a rational hypothetical. It was anything but.
We had just endured a period of religious rioting in which gangs roamed with machetes looking for people from the opposing community to assault and we had been shouting out teachings from Gandhi to disarm such violence from the balcony that looked out over the street. A lot of us had been reading Gandhi's autobiography and teachings and were trying to practise his non violent methods of peacemaking when Dave had his day dream while sitting on the balcony and said it was so real he was reaching for the non existent rifle before he came to address everyone in a wide eyed state and relayed his profound epiphany that he said bordered on a vision while in a conscious state. Personally, I think it was manifestation of his narcissistic need for control, not just over activities outside his window, but over the community itself which had become enlivened to ideas that came from another source. Attila resisted Dave's revelation suggesting it reflected the instinctive response that escalates all violent conflicts and reflects the same logic behind the arms race, but Dave pushed the issue to the point where Attila was on the verge of being asked to leave and had to concede a point Gandhi had made that action is superior to inaction, even if Attila still felt that non-violent action is superior to violence"

[forum.culteducation.com]

Hope that helps those looking for the references?

MacKay has been abandoned by almost everyone including his own children who he raised in the cult. One family member remains. They are attempting to have DJ “observed” by a medical personnel who can get him on some form of therapy to bring his decline under control. <+DO NOT USE THIS+Letter from Christine to Joseph Johnson+ copy provided by Ash sent to N.Croft dated last year +source Appel>

Really? Is it so Paul? One family member remains? Does this mean that Christine is out now too? Please, do tell more.

I'm sorry-I may have put that wrong and some information that should not have been posted was-one family member that ***I*** am aware is concerned about the way things are with DJ, according to a letter.
I don't even know who the letter was to and if it was actually sent. I know an XJC got a copy and passed it along and it is in the hands of someone in Florida. Also a copy was either given to someone in OZ or else they saw it in email form. Please don't keep asking for people to be named-it's not fair to them to then be raked over by DJ all over his stupid websight which is always raving about persecution. He is not being persecuted he is being held accountable by some for his actions. People will talk if you do and write outragous things. ******************************************************************************************************************************I don't claim to be an expert on all things JC or DJ.THANK GOD as just what I know makes me sick. I cannot believe that troll lined people up and made them slap each other in the face. Revolting. Cruel. Sadistic.*********************************************************************I'd like to still know why he allowed a sick lady, his wife Sherry to be whipped? WHIPPED? I think that's pure sick. SICK. HOW COULD SHE REFUSE HIM-she's at his mercy. While I think Sherry is wrong to abuse people and lure people into the cult, I feel for that lady, living with DJ all these years and not seeing her own kids who I hear are GREAT people who would welcome her gladly if she came to visit. I could be wrong but that is the impression Carl gave on his post. I do hope that lady Sherry breaks away from DJ enough to be able to see her own children and grandchildren. Maybe there are great grandchildren even. TERRIBLE TERRIBLE LOSS FOR HER TO MISS OUT ON A LOVING FAMILY AND I BELIEVE THAT IN SPITE OF DJ HE HAS RAISED ONE VERY GOOD SOUND SON KEVIN-who remains even open to seeing DJ but is not open to being abused any longer. I believe the daughter named Sheri sounds like a decent girl who has been hurt but has a good heart. How the heck did DJ turn out good kids? Sherry maybe was a greta mum who could compensate for DJ, who from all I read was a harsh task master and who thought tough love was the way to go. I have read DJ's sons comments and I see a truly good man there. What a pity DJ doesn't see that. I also think DJ's bro Rob sounds a decent bloke and he writes good sense. The son in law seems like a fine young man. WTF is wrong with DJ? God doesn't want us to miss out on our families. I applaud DJ's children 100% and his family members who had the good sense to leave the cult and/or to hold DJ accountable for the horrific way he treats his victims. They are better people than me. I would not be able to leave a door open to him as they have. I would not be able to remain civil to him as they have. They even correct people who do get things wrong about DJ and they don't seem to want him unjustly abused. Better people than most, they must be. I call them heros. I call all the people who escape cults heros. I call anyone a hero who stands up to protect and prevent others from entering into cults with blinders on. I believe the X sight prints the truth as does this sight. I believe the X sight shows DJ more respect and dignity than I would be able to show him had I lived though the crap they lived through.I applaud every person who stands tall against DJ in whatever way they do it. Some will give him a good harsh verbal wacking, others try to explain and reason. Some ignore him but just print the facts that they know or lived. It all is good if it saves anyone joining up. Many offer support and an ear to those DJ has hurt. It's all valuable. It all has it's place. What I won't support is violent actions<<<<<BUT I DO SEE WHY THE J FAMILY WAS DRIVEN WILD BUT I AM GLAD THE LAD WAS NOT HURT WORSE-I THINK DJ HAS COMPLETELY TRIED TO PRFI FROM THIS PROBLEM-HE WANTS $$$-HE WANTS MILLIONS-THE KID IS BEING USED AND HIS VALUE TO DJ IS THAT DJ IS PLAYING TO THE PC PEOPLE SAYING IT HAPPENED BECAUSE THE MAN WAS GAY-LIE LIE LIE-THE J FAMILY DIDNT GO SEEKING A GAY MAN TO BAT AROUND-A CULT MEMBER WHO HAD JUST TAKEN AWAY THEIR KID WAS NOW COMING WITH OTHER CULT MEMBERS TO TAKE THEIR PROPERTY AND THEY REACTED BURGLER WHO BREAKS INTO MY HOUSE ISN'T GONNA GET A KISS AND A CUPPAHOW WERE THE J FAMILY TO KNOW IF THE CULT WAS GOING TO TURN VIOLANT ON THEM? TO SOME DEGREE IT WAS DEFENDING THEIR PROPERTY AND PERHAPS THEIR OWN SAFETY---COURSE DJ LIES AND SAYS IT WAS A GAY BATTERING---WHILE I AM ASKING HERE I KNOW DJ HIMSELF IS ANTI GAY USUALLY-WHAT CHANGED????? OH YA $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ BY SUPPORTING THE MAN IN SUING THE J'S>>>> but I will support all form of legal action. That's what is needed. Proper legal accountablility.

So zeusor, I know you always want links and names but you need to respect that some people need to keep a back seat because they just can't handle the abuse DJ heaps on detractors. Others, like you, stand up, stand tall in spite of him. We need to work together while respecting where each person is or is willing to do. Personally, being I was not in the group, I can't offer any first hand stories but what I can do is support those who are fighting DJ. I am willing to put some $$$ down because I can. It's important to me that the Johnson's get a fair deal. It's important to me that the research that is being done on past possible crimes committed by DJ are fully investigated and brought to light. If he can be charged with anything, I support that. If all we do is succeed in documenting FACTS that he can't dispute or excuse-GOOD ENOUGH if it gets some of the cult to see him as he is and escape. Good enough if someone like me <<<who thought he could join a God Fearing- People Loving group and make some differnce in this world>>> doesn't end up joining. I'm a single man, without major ties who is sick of the crap in the greedy, hollywood obessed world. I COULD give up my house and material stuff easily if it meant really helping suffering people or bringing people to Jesus. I'm a sinner who needs support to do right in his life. I used to drink and party. Jesus forgave me. I changed my life and am happy now but I feel I am missing something inside and want to help others, especially the younger ones who might go down the same path I did, drinking, womanizing without respect for the lady, petty drug dabbling, working hard to greedily accumulate cars and posh entrapments I thought I needed to be a worthwhile successful man. Jesus is now what is important to me. Jesus and my fellow man and I'd like to help people find inner peace through Jesus LOVE-not fear or terror as DJ spreads. Because I care for my fellow man, I feel I must work as I can to stop evil abuse and I believe DJ is doing evil to people. Sometimes I made the error of calling him evil but it's what he is doing is wrong, I don't think he can be evil to the core as he has done some good. He has raised some good kids.

DJ IS GOING OFF ON HOW BAD FLATTERY IS.

Who loves flattery more than DJ?
How reacts worse to any critique of himself? DJ.
Who has expelled people from the cult when they would not flatter his criminal exploits?

Who has treated Jesus loving people, some his own family, like trash when they would not flatter every little thing DJ did and they dare to ask if something was Biblical or Godly to do to fellow humans?

Who are the biggest flatterers on DJ's site? Glen and Kristie who are not JC's but are the first ready to diss anyone who questions DJ.

DJ's whole forum is a forum and platform for this cult groupies and faithful few to praise him.

He writes freakish articles and wants people to clap.

He abuses people and applauds those who quickly join him in the attack.

He posts his own "flattery" of some X members like his son, yet he won't treat his son decently enought to have a relationship with him.
In my humble opinion if DJ has a problem with flattery he knows it's because he isn't worthy of compliments. He must feel some guilt inside. That's a good thing.

If DJ has a problem with me or anyone speaking well of others-it's because he is jealous and because FEW-VERY FEW speak well of him. He can't live in civil decent society where epople do love and respect and admire each other's good traits. He has opted out of society because he can't cut it. DJ is one of the most bitter, cynical people I have ever heard of. Even his FACE shows bitterness and when he talks, he's snide, cutting and jaded to a level that encompasses the very mental illness he subscribes to anyone who doesn't FLATTER HIM.

I honestly hope that he is taken for some form of observation and I believe if DR's could read his ranting about cockroaches, killers for christ, his gibbering about canibalism, his pure hatred for everyone.He is clearly cracking under his persecution mania.

He says he offers this nugget AFTER his crazy article denouncing flattery-

DJ posts

Oh, and many thanks to Glenn and Kirstie for their honesty with regard to applying the lesson in their own lives. These guys are fantastic. They do so much to brighten up this forum with their sterling character and honesty. We need more people like them.

Talk about sucking up. I guess when your numbers are dwindling, you are under investigation by several sources and your 2-3 potentials you manage to scrape up each year NEVER join-you have to flatter your groupies who themselves admit they have a series of mental health issues that make them want to be loved and approved of. Kristie has been back and forth so many times, no one can trust her. She just finished apologising for her abuse of someone last week, then she goes right off and slags the same person off in her next few posts. So much for the value of any peace making.
She just needs that DJ kiss kiss. I feel bad for this chick as she doesn't know which end is up anymore. If she is willing to take the crap they handed her and still think they like her even slightly, she IS a nutter. Does she know how Sherry feels about her? Sherry has posted it clearly that Kristie is not to be trusted and that she is mentally disturbed so seriously that neither side wants to be bothered with her anymore.
Glen-well he doesn't have the jewels to either join up or shut up. Dude says DJ makes him feel like he belongs. FLATTERY. AND TO BOOT NOW Glen is acting as DJ's personal spyboy, watching the sights DJ is banned from seeing and crawling into DJ's lap and tattling tales. That's a weaklings sad way to live.

On another note, Maclom, if you wish to PM me the details about where I can send a donation, I might have missed that if you replied before. I'm serious about giving some support to anything legal being done.
Cheers
Paul

So zeusor, I know you always want links and names but you need to respect that some people need to keep a back seat because they just can't handle the abuse DJ heaps on detractors. Others, like you, stand up, stand tall in spite of him.

Sure, I agree Paul. Leave them alone if they want to be left alone. You're the one who wrote it, however; all I was did was ask you to elaborate.

If I were to make a list of predatory, sadistic peronalities who are (or in the case of Golwalla, were) the leaders of small, obscure, cults consisting mainly of impressionable young people, then I'd have to put one Feroze Golwalla at the top of the list, and DM as number two.

Golwalla was the leader of a cult called Baruch Ha Shem, aka the Parsee Ministry Team.

[www.culteducation.com]

In terms of sheer sadism, cruelty, and conscience-free behavior, DM is the second-worst predator of youth (in a religious context) that I have ever studied. Golwalla is number one. DM, like Golwalla, is a monster in my book, a man evil in the very essence of his being.

Fortunately, Golwalla has been stopped, and is under virtual house arrest in, I believe, Maryland. DM is on his way to being stopped.

DM IMO is simply a conscienceless predator with nothing good in him. Besides, Steven Jones and Jim Jones Jr. turned out to be decent fellows too, but everybody knows that Jim Jones was a psychopath, you know?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 05:32AM by zeuszor.

In all honesty, I actually loathe David McKay. Paul, I do not feel like a hypocrite in calling myself a Christian yet at the same time expressing my strong contempt for DM. Why is this? Because I do not think of DM as my "brother" in any sense of the word, Biblical or otherwise.

The Scriptures simply do not support a "peace at any price" or "hands off" position. False teachers and false doctrine destroy people spiritually.

Please consider the pastoral epistles where Paul calls out the false teachers by name.

Read about Hymaneus (sp?), Philetus (sp?), and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:20).

We can also look at 3 John where Paul calls out Diotrephes by name.

Then, of course, there is the entire book of Galatians in which Paul speaks directly to the false doctrines infiltrating the church there.

Jude 3 commands us to earnestly contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. The context of the passage makes it clear that we are contending against false teachers. 2 Peter says very similar things.

1 Corinthians 11 says that some divisions are necessary so that those who are approved by God may become manifest from those who are not.

2 Cor. 11 also has very strong statements about false teachers.

Another great passage is Acts 20:28-31.

Then there is my personal favorite passage on the topic, Ephesians 5:11-12.

And what about 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul tells the church there to deliver the fornicator to Satan for the destruction of his flesh? Paul didn't tell them to give the guy a hug.

DM is just an evil little man with a need to look better than anybody else and to be right in every given circumstance. All he really wants is to hurt as many people as possible. I'd like to see a millstone tied around his neck, and then have him tossed overboard into the sea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2009 05:41AM by zeuszor.

I understand you mean to be helpful Zeusour. You are dedicated to the cause of preventing naive people from being tangled by DJ’s cult. Can I please recommend that we don't make any statements that make us look as unmanageable as DJ? He is always coming across brutal and vicious. I am sure you are neither. You are livid over DJ’s actions but you don’t want to play into his hand by being too zealous, especially in a way he can use against you or the cause. He is an expert at that and he is obsessed with both the X sight and this one and he takes every statement made here and prints it to get attention and pity for himself. DJ behaves like a merciless tyrant. We get that. Look how he treats his own son and son in law who are both very moderate and restrained in their comments about him personally while they remain very opposed to his behaviors. That is why the people at the X sight and here have a great deal more integrity than any JC could dream of having. The live on lies. Any outsider reading either this forum or the X forum then reading the JC forum-well---the Resolving Differences Section at the JC sight has more posts than any other of their forums. That shows what an insufferable cantankerous cult they are. Let's US not sink to any level so low we encounter the bottom feeders who lack any ability to control themselves or to be reasonable.

I DO see your points Zeusor. I sure am not questioning if you are a good Christian. I am sure you are a first-class person and a good Christian. You are evidently a great ally to those who need encouragement to avoid the JC’s in every way. I have read all you have done to support the girl who just went through a atrocious time with DJ and the viper pit. I have read your research documents and they are well done and accurate with documentation and backing for your points~~I back your efforts.

Yes, Jesus DID himself call people on being wicked. Jesus was courageous. Jesus stood up for the defenseless ones and cut tormenters down even if they were eminent leaders. I agree DJ blasphemes and disparages people relentlessly and he still treats people like trash. Sherry follows him. I see that he is extreme in his rages and hatred. She is sycophantic and eager to please him undoubtedly so she is spared his tirades and so she is not his next target. DJ tries to hide his venom behind posing his slanderous comments as queries. He ties to hide his own hypocrasy by getting toadies like Glen to supply information back to him on what is said on the X sight.

I like many, question why the JC's have made a rule to stay off the X sight then they send their toady to get the information of what is said and get it back to them. How honest is that to yourselves? Circumventing your newly made rules when it strikes you? What is being said on the X sight that frightens DJ so much? Why not just go about your business blathering away among yourselves and making sure your membership never grows. Carry on making your behind the scene nasty emails about people, the faithful few included and surely Kristie and Frankie and Eliayas. Speculate, LIE and fabricate.

Zeusor-keep gathering information and supply it to trusted allies who can work to have something legal done. We can work legally to eductate the public and to stop the cults destruction of souls, in the name of God. We need to pull together to support the J family right now as DJ is reveling in trying to ruin them.

Quote
Blackhat
For what it's worth, these quotes may be the references some folk are recalling:

apostate said:

"Oh yeah, I just remembered a time in India when we all lined up and hit each other in the face so we could practice turning the other cheek, or that Dave taught us all to have "flee bags" where we could run away quickly from trouble... such is the motivation of fear which drives their running regimes.

Woz Marshal artz man dere? Woz ee doin iz marshal artz? Woz ee kikin roun yo zo yo u stan real stil(en faith) or yo git kikd ? Kontrol

David McKay's ideas about theology and "revolution" are Kindergarten ideas. His message is really pretty simple: "There's a revolution for Jesus in progress. Forsake all and join us. Join us or f**k you." All judgment, no mercy.