So if dey iz mo' than just uh gang, maybe dey just finally pay uh bit mo' o' they tax.
Question here; if Joe an' Alf iz da new leaders, why iz it Dave claims ta be pulling da punches as da gang manager? Wot appen 2 da nu boyz? I smell uh rat! you know das right!

Hear, hear "Free of DM",

The political shennigans are just for so much show....the new "leaders" are are of course, PR stunts (they would be unable to make a decision that led the JC's out of David's influence....say cutting distribution quotas (David's "drip-feed" of attention) for other activities of their own choosing.....)

My God!! That IS good news if what you report about Grace is true, Oerlikon!! (Forgive me repasting part of your earlier submission!)

(Grace...from the 'web!)

The Jesus Christians

First, I want to say thank you to the whole JC community for the three years I spent learning, traveling and growing with you...I still consider the JCs to be my family, and will always be grateful for the ways they have opened my eyes. I am now what I suppose they would call a "friendly ex-member", but I see it more like I am an independent member of their community, a traveler carrying out the ideas and beliefs that God planted in me through them. My goal is to plant those ideals in the soil of my surroundings wherever I go and in whatever I do.(Which while a noble goal on your part will in his heart of hearts will mean nothing to David McKay....the "ideals" have no value other than drawing in paid up members available to do his bidding....which you will not be!!)

The JCs are a small, radical Christian community that I joined when I was 18. (We do hope that prior to joining, you were not clandestinely and deliberately groomed by David while a minor, Grace!) They describe themselves like this (and I would say it's an accurate description): "A live-by-faith, work-for-God-not-money Christian community. We distribute Bible-based comics and other tracts, and do free (voluntary) work. Against hypocrisy and self-righteousness in the church. In favour of honesty, humility and love." (jesuschristians.com) They have about 30 members total in 4 countries around the world, but they have had a big (IMO positive) impact on the world around them. I send my love out to them all!

...and they now have about "29" members ( in soon to be one country where they reconvene, we are assured)

Your "good wishes" towards them Grace are but part of your ultimate rehabilitation (something that David will now be gnashing his teeth over in despair)....like so many before you, those who have departed the JC's have tried to remain on "good terms" (try introducing yourself to Boyd and Sheri sometime)....we all "sent" out our love to them once upon a time.....too!

David will be starting to spread rumours about your "inadequacy" (Grace was the seed who fell in the "shallow soil" who grew for a while and then "withered" in the sun).....because what you have done is threaten his hold over those who remain.....hence your integrity will be questioned...and eventually you'll notice the "distance" that has crept into the communication with your erstwhile "brothers and sisters".....then you'll start to understand that the "loving" JC's only "love" those of their own kind....and you'll begin to wonder why David isn't "glad" to hear of the "ideals" you continue to champion independently.....(the "ideals" only ever were so much wool over your eyes......!)

It's wonderful that you are now in this position Grace... "I am now what I suppose they would call a "friendly ex-member", but I see it more like I am an independent member of their community,."..while you won't understand it (just yet) you would have thrown David into considerable dilemma....if he tolerates your example, others will do just as you have....and if he condemns you too quickly, he knows he will alienate some existing members of the JC's...

(Hence I believe your decision will be publicly "accepted" while at the same time you are increasingly slandered in closed door meetings, behind your back....this being the best that David can make out of it all...something even you will come to realize is happening by and by....)

...but good God, Grace FANTASTIC NEWS!......You are still "alive"?

...a tremendously inspiring development. Praise God!!

[www.youtube.com]

It has recently been pointed out to me by a friend that despite massive tract distribution and wide publicity,
the Jesus Christians really haven't expanded in membership since the split of the community in Australia in the mid 90's....

....that is for some 15 years they have been essentially "dormant"...It has been put to me that they are essentially finished up...we are now only watching the death throes (...or.... the body is already essentially dead and it's just the nerves that are still "twitching"?)....

As that little old ditty goes,...something like this I think...(..if not exactly then perhaps with some apologies to Ross)


We are his body,
dead from the core,

we must repress this fact,
hence our desperate act

(to) explain away our worship of a man who's cracked!!



...David has become a particularly hateful and spiteful individual (traits faithfully mirrored by several "leaders" in the JC's!) which is becoming increasingly difficult to "hide" by those who seek to remain loyal to him (those who retain enough humanity in them, to be able to quietly perceive this, that is...)

I have wondered to myself if in fact all cults are essentially self-destructive...
...the only "variant" among them, being the time it takes to finally implode......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2009 02:32AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

How can Dave or the Jesus Christians ever be challenged from anybody outside of their circle? To question Dave's authority or legitimacy is to reveal that one is not "in the Spirit." Thus, both he and the group is beyond criticism or evaluation. It is analogous to saying, "We are God's group because we have the truth. We have the truth because we are God's group." This is circular reasoning that justifies the Jesus Christians' own existence, as well as Dave's "Divine Authority." Thus no truly honest dialogue with any of them can ever take place.

More thoughts on the new JC "documentary":

The only credible person you see is the doctor from Johns Hopkins, and he looks to me like he has been sniffing the ether.

The best they could do is interview Zoe, Kirstie and their fellow groupies/hippies and rehash the same old lies.

Yes, Dave, sure you had permission to take Bobby, and sure some "cult busters" told his legal guardians that you weren't just a group of nice Christians, but a totalistic and destructive cult intent on recruiting him. But then what did you do? Did you prove them wrong? Nooooo, you hung onto him and didn't give him back and your people had to be arrested!

Also, it looks like Dave and Cherry took adavantage of a clause that allows them to be out of the country for 13 weeks and still receive welfare benefits. No doubt they would have also received additional money (because they are low income) from our government. We have had two so called stimulus packages. Basically, they put money (hundreds of dollars) automatically into people's bank accounts, if they receive benefits.

Sheesh McKay gets me so angry.

David McKay is fully aware of the circular reasoning he employs to "justify" himself.....Here is a a recent example of it in an act of (criminal) representation....

from his website, last month

Re: ethics, Adrian, and Helen
by Dave » Tue May 05, 2009 2:36 am

...We may act as prophets to the rest of the establishment, but if/when we get off the rails ourselves, we have to expect that we are going to reject those who criticise us. It's one reason why I probably spend more time than anyone else in our community listening to the criticisms levelled against us (and actually ASKING for them to clarify their concerns). I don't care if it's Brian Birmingham or Malcolm Wrest, if these guys are making a valid criticism of something we are doing, then we have an obligation to accept it as though it came from God.

What I'm saying is that no other criticism of a prophet (i.e. a valid critic) exempts us from recognising the voice of God in what they say. If he can speak through a donkey, he can speak through Brian Malcolm, or even Craig.


I allege that "Adrian and Helen" (or whoever may be deemed to viewing the JC website are potential victims whom David seeks to defraud of everything they own (....into accounts or to be spent in pursuit of projects in which he has a controlling interest) and to entrap in untold years of unpaid labour doing his bidding (e.g. retailing his writings).....in order to entrap such individuals David is here duplicitously casting himself as an "honest broker", doing no more than seeking whatever "truths" he may (this image is deliberately cultivated as he considers something that will entice the unwary to "buy in" ....) Finances are NOT held in common (properly audited accounts to which every existing member has equal access, proprietary direction and partnership voting procedures (in secret ballots) with entitlements to withdraw their contribution, in the event that an individual withdraws from the compact)....

.....new members circutiously "forsake" all they own to David or his trusted cronies....

"Orchestrated" shows of freedom...(David "asks" the members of the JC's to personally protest that they "don't want" the personal freedoms or financial protections I mention, are of of course just so much further acts of calculated misrepresentation.)

I submit that David MONITORS this site with no intention of ever modifying his behaviour and that he does not "listen" in any sense of the word.

I invite anyone to provide an example (excluding instances of sarcasm and abuse) where David has ever asked them to "clarify their concerns".

I allege that Davids assertions about himself are patently false. I allege that they are deliberately made for purposes of wilful gain.

Audi alteram partem (lit. hearing the other side) is the latin expression for the legal principle enshrined in Procedural Justice as the Hearing Principle.....differing parties are given opportunity to freely express their claims

Here I post the recent communication that I received from the JC's over on youtube

uklisteners has posted a comment on your profile:

Sorry, Malcolm, but your criminal behaviour is not welcome here.[www.youtube.com]

The JesusChristians have purposely sought to deny me access to their video sites, by spamming my account. They have sought to eliminate any opportunity for me to express "my concerns" in flagrant disregard, of the lofty principles of fundamental procedural justice that David McKay at the same time dishonestly seeks to create the impression that he champions.

I submit that this is a repeated pattern of behaviour that David McKay believes he will "gain" by
(be free to practice the dishonest practices he engages in without restraint)

This "prophet" warns David that his behaviour UTTERLY CONTRADICTS what Christ stood for (and which He spoke of in detail in the Sermon on the Mount) hence in all likelyhood David is going to find himself to be one of those who "caused offence to a little one of mine" and who may ultimately discover that he would have been better off being drowned long beforehand with a "mill stone" around his neck.....




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2009 10:52AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

...further hypocrisy....

Re: ethics, Adrian, and Helen
by Dave » Tue May 05, 2009 2:36 am

...We may act as prophets to the rest of the establishment, but if/when we get off the rails ourselves, we have to expect that we are going to reject those who criticise us. It's one reason why I probably spend more time than anyone else in our community listening to the criticisms levelled against us (and actually ASKING for them to clarify their concerns). I don't care if it's Brian Birmingham or Malcolm Wrest, if these guys are making a valid criticism of something we are doing, then we have an obligation to accept it as though it came from God.

What I'm saying is that no other criticism of a prophet (i.e. a valid critic) exempts us from recognising the voice of God in what they say. If he can speak through a donkey, he can speak through Brian Malcolm, or even Craig.


...I provide a recent posting on youtube (to which the JesusChristians have clandestinely conspired to deny me access)

Malcolm, it's significant that you chose a username based on a demonic "gatekeeper" in Ghostbusters. The public should know that your post is a slanderous lie. Malcolm left our community 25 years ago and has had no contact with us since. He hides in South Korea to escape legal action for his slander. Our work in Kenya continues; no sales of body organs, no mandatory quotas. But, yes, legal action against a family that almost killed one of our members. Get a life, Malcolm.

Part of David's "sheep clothing" is the myth that he unfairly maligned by the critics to whom he gloats aloud (to those he considers potential converts), that he politely considers the comments of his critics in all humility....

The reality of course is that David is an hateful and spiteful old man, whose cult is in terminal decline...hence the vitriol in his smear campaigns.

In itemized response,

Malcolm, it's significant that you chose a username based on a demonic "gatekeeper" in Ghostbusters.

"What is in a name..." however I have always wondered if Davids unclean spirit might be dealt with in a similar manner....where might one buy an unlicensed nuclear accelerator one wonders.....

[www.youtube.com]

The public should know that your post is a slanderous lie.

The public should know that the Children of God theology David filched from his years of contact with the Children of God ("Spoiling Eygpt","Honest to whom" and the deliberate infiltration of churches (and now social causes such as freeganism) to clandestinely win over disciples) inform his strategy of patent dishonesty hand in hand with the public denial of such practices.

"Projection" is the psychological term for the tactic they are engaging in here attempting to paint me in the vein in which they are actually are themselves.

Malcolm left our community 25 years ago and has had no contact with us since.

This is irrelevant. Ample information about the JC's is available from friends and family of the current and recent membership. As the JC's have no idea as to the extent of my contacts here...this statement is simple prevarication in an pathetic attempt to "discredit" me.

He hides in South Korea to escape legal action for his slander.

"Hides" is an emotive attempt to discredit me. Factually inaccurate. Mere smear tactics.

Our work in Kenya continues;

...that is until David decides that it doesn't bring in new members, the "work" of retailing Davids' writing is NOT "third world development"

JESUS CHRISTIANS NEWSLETTER #110, APRIL 2009

Note: Since our decision to become a single worldwide community once
again (with all of us accountable to everyone else, and a single
common purse)

David (or his cronies) as always, control the purse strings with no independent auditing of any of your accounts....
....those in Kenya will be under additional scrutiny by David of the amount of "promotional" activities, they engage in....

no sales of body organs,

Naturally we would all like to see exactly how much you claimed as "cost reimbursement" from the recipient of Rolands recent "donation"..were Roland to say have claimed "lost income" (the donations he lost that is, that he usually made per week, selling David's written work "litnessing" to the unsaved) he will of course then have made a statement pointing out that he is no less a "systemite" (he is employed as one of Davids' "newsboys") than those outside the Jesus Christians that he hypocritically and vainly considers himself spiritually "superior" to...)

no mandatory quotas

A number of former members have already stated on this site that "quota"s were introduced during their "service" to the "Apostle". The denial of this practice among the Jesus Christians is a wilful fabrication...the "empowerment charts" and "mental graphs" David introduced, were intended to suppress dissatisfaction with the constant "sale" of David's writing as the primary focus of the Jesus Christians (and to squash wider disatisfaction).....if there has been a "policy" change....one will suspect it is no more than "orchestration" until confirmed by departed members.

But, yes, legal action against a family that almost killed one of our members.

No critic of David has condoned the violence Reinehardt may have suffered, however the Jesus Christians have deliberately overstated the matter.."almost killed" is wildly inaccurate..The American Police did not record a conviction.....Reinehardt was observed to be "active" and in good health not long after his "near death" encounter...the fact that you have employed a Scientologist as your lawyer, tells the world an awful lot about the JC's....David is purposely sensationalizing the incident for PR value and in order to extort the parents of Joe into silence......

(Joe of course has never independently confirmed his familys version of events...his mind has been deliberately poisoned against those who might question his servitude to the Jesus Christians, selling "Faith" in whatever McKay tells him and serving David by selling his God awful literature)

Get a life, Malcolm.

Get a life somehow....leave McKay NOW!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2009 02:06AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Just when you thought you'd seen it all...

[beemp3.com]

Appears to be something about downloading Jesus Christians songs for ringtones, etc.

Dear Oerlikon,

thanks for the link......any "profile" sells in McKays eyes...whatever gets attention is a "justified" and "legitimate" redemption of time....
....hence the attempt is quite understandable..... I still quite like the Jesus Christians (principally Ross's?) efforts even though they may need a image makeover if they are ever to reach the popularity of some established players in the industry [www.youtube.com]


He hides in South Korea to escape legal action for his slander.

This is a little "Feudian slip" on the part of David. It reveals quite a lot really!


However let first say that I can appreciate the frustration David feels in dealing with me.

(1) I find him very easy to read, and to second guess....

(2) I can support the allegations I make of them with countless facts drawn across the entire ignoble history of the Jesus Christians.

Naturally enough then, David would love nothing more than to be able to threaten me into silence.


He would for example relish being able to maliciously smear me in the eyes of my employer with fabricated slander in order to have me summarily dismissed from my place of work....

(...as he has attempted to do to other former members....say revealing personal information about them from their days in the Jesus Christians, when he abused those without the "faith" to "spoil Eygpt", and David in the ultimate hypocrisy now threatens to disclose behaviour that he actively encouraged..)......

David would relish blackmailing me, with the threats of loss of any communication with relatives that I may have within the Jesus Christian membership....

(... and which he could then use to extort me, pulling on the heart strings as he progressively alienated former family of mine, poisoning their mind with dishonest "false dilemmas" (e.g. You must hate your parents in order to love God)....that he twists to justify servitude in his empire...(You must demonstrate your love to God by hating your parents AND serving David!)....)

David would relish shouting me down in a public forum or publicly "picketing me" with Jesus Christians in some numbers, or simply "wearing me down" with the volume of vile spite he spouts....

...however "hidden" away as I am in Korea(where I have resided for ten years with my Korean spouse!)...in a country where no-one would give the proverbial rats arse, about David or anything he had to say about himself, (let alone assuming he could make himself understood), and there being no current members of the Jesus Christians who I would "weep" over should David instruct them to abuse me and demand that I hold my peace or threaten me that I would never communicate with me, ever again.....where I can't be located in order to institute a campaign of harrassment against me, YET, from where I can be "heard".....

Immensely "frustrating" indeed, for our little David!!


(....and, uh....yet.... why do I feel no pity for him???)

Have any of you ever heard of the Asch Line Experiment, or of a man named Zablocki?

[www.simplypsychology.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk]

Having decided in the early '80 to "stop writing the news and start making it", McKay's preoccupations as a writer and his envy of others' success as religious leaders became the motivation in forming his own group. He is an egomaniac who espouses an egomaniacal philosophy, which has at its core the belief that whatever happens to others is their own fault. Whatever happens to Dave McKay is the fault of a Great Conspiracy. He advocates personal responsibility to his followers, but almost uniformly fails to practice what he preaches.