Oh David McKay! I can't be bothered to argue. I invited DM and Cherry over to meet my family and Nick at Christmas- where we would have welcomed him with open arms.
YOU'RE WRONG DAVE. SOOO WRONG!!!
It's just sad that all the people in your community are forced to habour the same delusions as yourself.
I mean- Freeganism is GREAT! Kidney donation is FANTASTIC! And following Jesus's teachings- INSPIRATIONAL!- The only thing that completely undermines what your community does- IS YOU!!
The JC's are regarded as a cult because of their association with Dave,
Please, please, please- can't some of you just write a new book and start again. You'd have more support than you can possibly imagine. ' Lo- with God, all things are possible.'

"The JC's are regarded as a cult because of their association with Dave,
Please, please, please- can't some of you just write a new book and start again. You'd have more support than you can possibly imagine. ' Lo- with God, all things are possible.'"

I agree wholeheartedly. Ditch the dodgy geezer and spread your message of freedom from the strangulation of the system.

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barbiedoll
Another one that was going around was that Grace has decided that she is going to live with a family friend and not with her team, even though she says she is still part of the team she is going to "find some independence" and "work through a few things".... it is all very interesting..


but more than that is is chilling and very scary. For those who have left will need all the support they can get from Friends and family, dont leave them on thier own, wrap them up in your arms and tell them how much you really love them.

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zuezor
David says that Ash and Grace are still with the JCs, right?

They have not posted anything at the forum there in quite a while. Perhaps DM could ask them to do so in order to establish this as a fact?

I just have a few things to say in response to all that has transpired in the last month, even though you have all moved on to other ridiculous speculations. I want to establish that I have not left the community, I am currently still with the West Coast team and that it doesn't matter that Ash and I have not written anything on the forum in a while. Have you ever been a little too busy to spend time on the internet, or ever wanted a break from anything?

And to Kirstie, I am very sad that you have decided to take refuge in a group of people who do not act Christian. I do respect the fact that you do not want to associate with us anymore, that's fine. But I assume that you still consider yourself a Christian, and so I do not respect, at all, the behavior that you have displayed since deciding against working with the JCs. I think it is appalling that you display our private emails for all to read, and that you told everyone my personal business (not to mention the personal business of the community). I wish that we could still be friends, but it doesn't seem that you want that.

I had a lot more to say, but have forgotten it, since it has taken me so long to actually reply to what I have read here. Good luck in labeling us a suicide cult.... that's pretty funny.

Oh, and Brian, I don't appreciate your snide request to have Dave "make" us stand up for ourselves.

That's the end of my rant.

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Coolhermit
... spread your message of freedom from the strangulation of the system.

strangulation of HIS (McKay's) system.

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FunkyPunkyG
Have you ever been a little too busy to spend time on the internet, or ever wanted a break from anything?

Yes.

Like Grace, I haven't had much to do with the internet lately, but have just seen some remarks published about David Lowe, and would really like to formally respond to address a couple of inaccuracies there, with reference to his having any links with me.
I expect that the misperceptions published have come about as a result of the situation of mistaken identity which I see Hello has also referred to here.

In response to a recent posting on welikejesus.com which I see Blackhat has posted a link to above:

"...Even in the documents from the computer, David only referred to himself as Private Eyes. But these documents revealed that he was in contact with Kate Croft (Ash's mother), that he was going to attend an anti-cult seminar with her..."

for the record,

I have never had any connection with David Lowe.

I have met him once, for a few minutes at a literary seminar held at Newtown Healing Centre last September. It was not an anti-cult meeting. I spoke with him there for a few moments before leaving, and learned that he was a Quaker man who had travelled from Brisbane. He seemed a nice gentle man, and I wished him well in his return journey. I also spoke with a number of other people, as one does when general mingling takes place after any sort of formal presentation. Incidentally, I also met and spoke with a number people during the lunch break, but David Lowe was not one of them.

I attended that seminar alone, with no prior arrangement to meet with, or any expectation of meeting either anyone I knew, or knew of, there. In the event, the only people I did see there who I knew, were Dave and Cherry. I learnt of the seminar from an invitation brochure received in the mail.

I have never met David Lowe before or since, and have never corresponded with him at any time. I did not sit with David Lowe, or anyone related to him or connected to him in any way, at that seminar.

I did sit in the front row, actually at the right end seat of the first of 3 rows, with a woman on one side of me, and the aisle on the other. I did meet the man sitting behind me, and he was not David Lowe. Having made the acquaintance of the woman I sat beside, I can also confirm she was unconnected with David Lowe.

***************

While I have no idea of who came and went throughout the seminar, being actually focussed on listening to the author speak, I was told during the lunch-break that Ashwyn had come to the door with 2 companions, and wanted to see me afterwards. When he did return at the end, (or really a bit before then), I did hear his arrival, since I was expecting it and looking forward to it.
We went outside so as not to disrupt the remainder of the talk, and while I know Dave had come in company with Ash, I thought that Ross and Cherry followed. Certainly the latter did not join us outside initially.
I don't recall Barry being there, but frankly, my focus then was fully on Ashwyn. As always, it was fantastic to see him, and be in company with him.

This occasion was the second of the 3 times I saw Ash since his return from Toronto last May, until I went to Cyprus to see him in March this year.
Prob'ly because of the personal meaning this occasion carried for me, it is easier for me to recall details of the facts as stated above with greater clarity than others may have. We all get things confused sometimes, and I very much hope this information is of assistance to all.

I have written an account of these facts previously on the David Lowe topic of the former Flame Thread of the jesuschristian.com forum, but unfortunately that account seems to have been lost when the original 4 pages there were reduced to the 2 pages now remaining.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2008 08:23AM by cait.

David McKay claimed to be "leaving this weekend on a three-month tour of Australia". This may be an attempt to avoid having to respond to the Australian Quakers, but he's still posting on the Jesus Christians forum, so I guess he's not out of touch.

I've been following the whole David Lowe/Private Eyes issue with interest. But does it really matter? Who cares if David is or isn't Private Eyes? The Australian Quakers think they've been infiltrated by a cult. They want them out. Is that so hard to understand?

"The ABC in Australia will be doing a sequel to "Ash's Anatomy" at 8pm tomorrow night, Monday, 5 May. We only learned of it through advertising on the station itself."

[welikejesus.com]

The extent of Dave McKay's "so called" evidence againgst David Lowe appears to be what is claimed to be an anonymous remailing address and some documents (copies of Private RR messages) signed by Private Eyes.

No documents signed by David Lowe. No documents from Private Eyes, claiming to be David Lowe. By McKay's own admission, not even a reference to where this David Lowe allegedly lives.

Most Rick Ross posters will be aware of where these "documents" came from and how counter intelligence was run from the start, with selected information going to that source. Subsequent events, proved we were on the right track.

The recipient of my messages actually made most of the claims listed on the Jesus Christians website. Stating that Dave had information that I was in touch with Kate, that I stayed at the Friends House, etc. Because he believed I was David Lowe. I have never made those claims.

Can McKay honestly say he has a document signed by Private Eyes or from Private Eyes computer, saying for example, Private Eyes stayed at Friends House?

The fact that David Lowe attended a CIFS seminar is not disputed. Ironically, I have learnt the reason, wasn't anything to do with the Jesus Christians.

For the record, I have checked with the Queensland Government and there is not a David Lowe registered as an Inquiry Agent in that state.

If Dave McKay believes his evidence will hold up in Court, he is sadly mistaken.

Simply put, Dave McKay cannot prove that I am David Lowe, because I am not!

However, Talamasca makes a good point. At the end of the day it doesn't make any difference who I am.

Dave is simply shifting the attention off himself and onto his critics.

I have stated that I believe that McKay's cult should be thoroughly investigated and the findings reported to the appropriate authorities. I stand by that view and make no apologies for encouraging people to report what they know.

Is it any wonder that people wish to remain anonymous, when we witness the tactics employed by McKay in an effort to silence his critics?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2008 01:08PM by private eyes.

FukyPunkyG

You seem to be suggesting that it was unChristian for Kirstie to publish JC emails:

Quote: " I think it is appalling that you display our private emails for all to read..."

Hopefully, then you will apply and expect the same standard from Dave:

Quote: "...someone has sent me information from some documents that were obtained from Private Eyes' own computer. These documents were obtained without Private Eyes' permission."

I am glad you took some time out to reconsider your position. Don't be afraid to do that from time to time and seek alternate views. If we are talking about salvation, it's important you are on the right track. So take the time to read widely and discuss Christianity with a range of Pastors. If you limit your activities to one group and one perspective you won't be getting the full picture. I think Dave has said he doesn't have a degree and doesn't appear to have had any formal Bible College training. By his own admission, he struggles with Greek. A lot of what he shares with the community appears to be what he has picked up from other cults.

Grace, I am sure everyone on Rick Ross is happy to be your friend. But being your friend, means caring enough to point out where you might be in spiritual danger. We can love someone and still disagree with their lifestyle choices.