Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 26, 2008 04:21AM
Josh copying Dave's Modus Operandi of building an accusation
Communists believe in evolution and communists are evil. So by the transitive property....I've proved my point
Communists are not "evil" Josh, and not all communists believe in evolution.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2008 04:23AM by apostate.
Communists believe in evolution and communists are evil. So by the transitive property....I've proved my point
Communists are not "evil" Josh, and not all communists believe in evolution.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2008 04:23AM by apostate.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: March 26, 2008 11:07AM
Apostate wrote: This forum is just the conduit by which ex-members like myself who are lied against and banned from communicating on your forum, can present first hand testimony and evidence to counter such slander. In fact RR is virtually absent from this discussion thread. However if you are worried that my testimony might be contaminated by the background of the person who set up the forum on which it is presented, I am happy to return and make the same effort to speak the truth in your virtuous company.
This is very well stated. Is it too much to ask of a typical JC to consider the differences between their forum and this one. The first thing I think about is how much involvement (manipulation) Dave McKay has on almost every thread at the JC bulletin board. Compared to rrmoderators posts on this thread, it's laughable when a typical JC demonises this bulletin board because of a single thread (yeah, there are a couple of other smaller ones, but ...).
I'm here because it's convenient, relevant and thought provoking. I'd certainly put my hand up and reiterate what I've said in another form, such as print. I could certainly continue this discussion with other, more real entities - I think it's called, sitting around a table with a couple of beers and having a good chin wag.
And I could certainly learn more about this 'evil cult' from other sources. Libraries are still handy sources...
But why should I?
This is very well stated. Is it too much to ask of a typical JC to consider the differences between their forum and this one. The first thing I think about is how much involvement (manipulation) Dave McKay has on almost every thread at the JC bulletin board. Compared to rrmoderators posts on this thread, it's laughable when a typical JC demonises this bulletin board because of a single thread (yeah, there are a couple of other smaller ones, but ...).
I'm here because it's convenient, relevant and thought provoking. I'd certainly put my hand up and reiterate what I've said in another form, such as print. I could certainly continue this discussion with other, more real entities - I think it's called, sitting around a table with a couple of beers and having a good chin wag.
And I could certainly learn more about this 'evil cult' from other sources. Libraries are still handy sources...
But why should I?
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Jack Oskar Larm
()
Date: March 26, 2008 11:27AM
I've really enjoyed reading the Last Goodbye on the JC's 'Goodbye' thread. It would seem that Kirstie has her own mind. She's willing to defy the 'great leader' and she's apparently going to hold her line, with integrity. It's very sad that McKay has to start planting the seeds of doubt and shame in her mind. Already he is manufacturing a distance between his little cult and her.
Dave: She went distributing with Roland, and he got into some kind of a debate with a JW. Kirstie followed that up with some of her softer approach, and managed to get the JW to take a book, which it seems she took as proof that she knows best, and that we just don't know how to do it.
It is disturbing that he applauds a seemingly aggressive approach (apparently instigated by Roland) and dismisses the softer approach by Kirstie. At least, Dave should have considered the fact that they got their book across. Maybe, Dave, Kirstie did know best.
Dave:Kirstie is a very intelligent, sensitive, and perceptive person. But she's not perfect, and that seems to be where we differed.
Is he for real? I would laugh if I could snap out of my shock! So, Dave differs from Kirstie because either he couldn't convince her of not being perfect (whatever that's supposed to mean or indicate) or Dave considers himself perfect. It would seem that the last sentence reads, we are different because I'm perfect and Kirstie isn't.
Dave:It's an old story. People can be all fired up for the truth one day, and just the slightest little seed of pride, greed, fear, or whatever gets in there, and bingo! They're gone.
Dave, I know it's too late, but please consider that you are not the sole harbinger of truth - the absolute truth you so often espouse. You are, from everything I have seen and heard, a very sad old man who will be remembered by some as a kind of father figure. But many, many more will have seen you as you really are.
Bingo! And you're gone ...
Dave: She went distributing with Roland, and he got into some kind of a debate with a JW. Kirstie followed that up with some of her softer approach, and managed to get the JW to take a book, which it seems she took as proof that she knows best, and that we just don't know how to do it.
It is disturbing that he applauds a seemingly aggressive approach (apparently instigated by Roland) and dismisses the softer approach by Kirstie. At least, Dave should have considered the fact that they got their book across. Maybe, Dave, Kirstie did know best.
Dave:Kirstie is a very intelligent, sensitive, and perceptive person. But she's not perfect, and that seems to be where we differed.
Is he for real? I would laugh if I could snap out of my shock! So, Dave differs from Kirstie because either he couldn't convince her of not being perfect (whatever that's supposed to mean or indicate) or Dave considers himself perfect. It would seem that the last sentence reads, we are different because I'm perfect and Kirstie isn't.
Dave:It's an old story. People can be all fired up for the truth one day, and just the slightest little seed of pride, greed, fear, or whatever gets in there, and bingo! They're gone.
Dave, I know it's too late, but please consider that you are not the sole harbinger of truth - the absolute truth you so often espouse. You are, from everything I have seen and heard, a very sad old man who will be remembered by some as a kind of father figure. But many, many more will have seen you as you really are.
Bingo! And you're gone ...
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: March 26, 2008 12:00PM
Oh MY GOD!....Guilty....I feel so TERRIBLY, TERRIBLY G-u-i-l-t-y
Here am I.....where I should be gushing with fulsome praise for the Jesus Christians and their just (as it so always so accidentally happens) well publicized "selfless" kidney donations, while at the same time I should be hanging my head in profound shame at the worthless soul I've become....and yet for some reason I'm not and to make matters somehow even worse, approximately 18 hours ago (4:00 a.m. Local Canadian Time)..I delivered the following "Letter to the Editor" to the "Globe and Mail" in Toronto, and following it up some 12 hours later, with the delivery of the same letter to half a dozen senior editorial staff within the "Globe and Mail" (11: a.m Local Canadian Time), which means that while it was too late for inclusion in the current print run, it may be well yet be under consideration for tomorrows.....
"Journalists are under considerable responsibility to fulfill the role expected of a free press in a representative democracy, as a conduit of reliable information to the general public. Without such a service, the public would undoubtedly fall constant victim to the dishonesty of the most scurrilous in any society.
It concerns me then, that the article "Kidney Cult transplant goes ahead in Cyprus" contains several factual errors that would be readily apparent with a minimum of investigative integrity.
The author from the Globe and Mail, writes that "Against their sons' wishes, the couple [the Crofts] had flown to Cyprus and strenuously tried to prevent the surgery going ahead, according to Mr McKay [the leader of the Kidney Cult]. The statement is utterly libellous. Ring the surgeon IMMEDIATELY (you obviously already have his number) and ask him to detail what "strenuous efforts" the Crofts made to "prevent the surgery. There were none whatsoever and the Globe and Mail, has simply fallen prey to the disingenuous strategies of someone who realized that you wouldn't bother to confirm anything that he stated.
The Globe and Mail FAILS to mention (or even elucidate?) that it was this very surgeon who purposely invited the Crofts over for the operation in the first place, thus placing their arrival in an entirely different light, from the insinuations you leave to the readership to draw.
AND this very surgeon might now have a slightly different perspective to offer on the behaviour of Ash Falkingham..(now that the cameras have gone!)...who you unwittingly write..."did not sound like he had been coerced into anything"....Why then does this "uncoerced" young man, have a JesusChristian "minder" ("Alf") at his bedside day after day, typing away into his laptop all that transpires to "noble" Mr David McKay. Why then does he refuse to even entertain the parents (who have openly stated that they have decided to support him, despite their ongoing misgivings about McKay) and that his trusted surgeon invited for his benefit....
Why?...possibly because he is under instruction from "someone" to dishonestly magnify the parental "estrangement" for the purposes of media hyperbole.
It would only take a call on a number the Globe and Mail already hold, to confirm any of this....and how would I know?....because I directly rang Kate in Cyprus a few hours ago (2:30 a.m. East Canadian Time) to hear how she is spending her birthday in Cyprus being purposely shunned by her son, that she spent thousands of dollars to visit on the specific invitation from the Surgeon George Kriakides, while the man with mastery over her son is lauded in the pages of the Globe and Mail over Easter.
...but why do I have to do, what should have already been undertaken (verifying sources) by any newspaper, serious in its duties.
Poor old David Koresh and all the other Branch Davidians....if only they had known...they could have fled to Canada....."
and this horrid little letter that despicable little I concocted in another of my fits of spite has the potential to blow the current "covert op" right out of the water, knowing as we do that the Surgeon who undertook the operation is not betoken to the commands of David McKay and were he to report how strangely this self-professedly "Christian" young man, has been behaving, outside the view of the camera, to his parents, and the utterly piggish manner in which he has refused to acknowledge them despite their last minute departure to an expensive destination half-way around the world (at the Surgeons invitation mind you, and in complete contrast to the reasons stated in Mr McKays account) then:
(Minors perusing these pages are advised to seek Parental Guidance before proceeding...........(umm...Jesse?..ahh...could you please hold Tofferers' hand!...NO!...only his HAND I said….tsk tsk!):
Hmm! Why then the man seen as the ultimate "authority" behind this piggish behaviour in Ash, would probably be seen (even if it was completely undeserved, you understand) to be little more than "pigshit" himself.....and A-L-L it would take is a simple phone call to verify all of this.. .How Ash has behaved when faced with the media....Alf's antics.....the Crofts' obvious sincere interest in an openly ungrateful young man......of course there is always good ol' Sandi....but then again she DOES have the kidney now and I kinda wonder how far she'd be inclined to continue puttting herself out for the man who was forever sticking an uninvited video camera in her face during the time she spent in Toronto with Ash...hmmm, I wonder now....
This letter of course may never even make it to print…however even it doesn’t, you never know what type of “questions” it might raise among previously welcoming journalists…. I can still remember how all the good press from the “Free community work” program (the media stunt of my day) turned “sour” after people began to realize that once the cameras weren’t there, neither was David McKay….alll those subsequent years spent toiling away, with barely a bite from the press (particularly after Mike Willisee “turned”….) despite every desperate endeavour one could cook up for attention…..
As it is now 10:30 p.m. in Toronto, its too late to simply for “anyone” to simply call up the Globe and Mail and vilify me, in order to dissuade the staff there from taking me seriously. They have already had a full working day to read through what I wrote and to verify whether what I stated (in comparison to the “spin” they received from the JesusChristians’ spokeman) is accurate or not. The Globe and Mail may, in fact, have already held an “interesting conversation” with the surgeon who operated on Ash…..but then again, it is of course Easter and they are a busy newspaper…they could possibly have waited….
As it is 5:30 a.m now in Cyprus (and 3:30 p.m. AEST in Sydney, Australia) there is probably approximately another three to four hours before Mr Kriakides arrives at his office in the hospital. After about 7:30 p.m. AEST Sydney time, Wednesday 26th every minute may prove to be of the essence…..
“Someone” might need to urgently “engineer” a happy ending to this fairy tale (lets say….”..”prodigal son” happily reconciled with devoted mother” by immediately directing “Alf” to piss off altogether to some nether region of Cyprus (where he could have a wank with his lap-top for the next 72 hours for all anyone cares) and instructing a seriously “loosened up” Ash to call his mother post haste, cheerfully wish her some belated birthday greetings, and invite her over to his bedside, before spending the next few days relaxing together in Cyprus, prior to flying out on his next “mission for God”,
OTHERWISE:
…some poor God forsaken bastard runs the risk of rapidly becoming regarded as the asshole from “Down Under”….which would be just so tragic wouldn’t it, after such a promising start in the media coverage out of Canada for the JesusChristians…
Why, if were in that poor benighted souls shoes, I’d be just that little bit tempted to discreetly relay the appropriate “advice” to those concerned fucking fast…..(if you’ll momentarily permit me the indulgence to so presumptuously refer to the work of an Apostle of God)
However as I not standing in that particular stinking footwear, well… as for me…why I’m just going to have to retire to the bathroom and flagellate myself with the ol’ “cat’o’nine-tails” for the next few hours in the hope that I can somehow temporarily mitigate this crushing weight of remorse which so-o-o oppresses me…..
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2008 12:04PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
Here am I.....where I should be gushing with fulsome praise for the Jesus Christians and their just (as it so always so accidentally happens) well publicized "selfless" kidney donations, while at the same time I should be hanging my head in profound shame at the worthless soul I've become....and yet for some reason I'm not and to make matters somehow even worse, approximately 18 hours ago (4:00 a.m. Local Canadian Time)..I delivered the following "Letter to the Editor" to the "Globe and Mail" in Toronto, and following it up some 12 hours later, with the delivery of the same letter to half a dozen senior editorial staff within the "Globe and Mail" (11: a.m Local Canadian Time), which means that while it was too late for inclusion in the current print run, it may be well yet be under consideration for tomorrows.....
"Journalists are under considerable responsibility to fulfill the role expected of a free press in a representative democracy, as a conduit of reliable information to the general public. Without such a service, the public would undoubtedly fall constant victim to the dishonesty of the most scurrilous in any society.
It concerns me then, that the article "Kidney Cult transplant goes ahead in Cyprus" contains several factual errors that would be readily apparent with a minimum of investigative integrity.
The author from the Globe and Mail, writes that "Against their sons' wishes, the couple [the Crofts] had flown to Cyprus and strenuously tried to prevent the surgery going ahead, according to Mr McKay [the leader of the Kidney Cult]. The statement is utterly libellous. Ring the surgeon IMMEDIATELY (you obviously already have his number) and ask him to detail what "strenuous efforts" the Crofts made to "prevent the surgery. There were none whatsoever and the Globe and Mail, has simply fallen prey to the disingenuous strategies of someone who realized that you wouldn't bother to confirm anything that he stated.
The Globe and Mail FAILS to mention (or even elucidate?) that it was this very surgeon who purposely invited the Crofts over for the operation in the first place, thus placing their arrival in an entirely different light, from the insinuations you leave to the readership to draw.
AND this very surgeon might now have a slightly different perspective to offer on the behaviour of Ash Falkingham..(now that the cameras have gone!)...who you unwittingly write..."did not sound like he had been coerced into anything"....Why then does this "uncoerced" young man, have a JesusChristian "minder" ("Alf") at his bedside day after day, typing away into his laptop all that transpires to "noble" Mr David McKay. Why then does he refuse to even entertain the parents (who have openly stated that they have decided to support him, despite their ongoing misgivings about McKay) and that his trusted surgeon invited for his benefit....
Why?...possibly because he is under instruction from "someone" to dishonestly magnify the parental "estrangement" for the purposes of media hyperbole.
It would only take a call on a number the Globe and Mail already hold, to confirm any of this....and how would I know?....because I directly rang Kate in Cyprus a few hours ago (2:30 a.m. East Canadian Time) to hear how she is spending her birthday in Cyprus being purposely shunned by her son, that she spent thousands of dollars to visit on the specific invitation from the Surgeon George Kriakides, while the man with mastery over her son is lauded in the pages of the Globe and Mail over Easter.
...but why do I have to do, what should have already been undertaken (verifying sources) by any newspaper, serious in its duties.
Poor old David Koresh and all the other Branch Davidians....if only they had known...they could have fled to Canada....."
and this horrid little letter that despicable little I concocted in another of my fits of spite has the potential to blow the current "covert op" right out of the water, knowing as we do that the Surgeon who undertook the operation is not betoken to the commands of David McKay and were he to report how strangely this self-professedly "Christian" young man, has been behaving, outside the view of the camera, to his parents, and the utterly piggish manner in which he has refused to acknowledge them despite their last minute departure to an expensive destination half-way around the world (at the Surgeons invitation mind you, and in complete contrast to the reasons stated in Mr McKays account) then:
(Minors perusing these pages are advised to seek Parental Guidance before proceeding...........(umm...Jesse?..ahh...could you please hold Tofferers' hand!...NO!...only his HAND I said….tsk tsk!):
Hmm! Why then the man seen as the ultimate "authority" behind this piggish behaviour in Ash, would probably be seen (even if it was completely undeserved, you understand) to be little more than "pigshit" himself.....and A-L-L it would take is a simple phone call to verify all of this.. .How Ash has behaved when faced with the media....Alf's antics.....the Crofts' obvious sincere interest in an openly ungrateful young man......of course there is always good ol' Sandi....but then again she DOES have the kidney now and I kinda wonder how far she'd be inclined to continue puttting herself out for the man who was forever sticking an uninvited video camera in her face during the time she spent in Toronto with Ash...hmmm, I wonder now....
This letter of course may never even make it to print…however even it doesn’t, you never know what type of “questions” it might raise among previously welcoming journalists…. I can still remember how all the good press from the “Free community work” program (the media stunt of my day) turned “sour” after people began to realize that once the cameras weren’t there, neither was David McKay….alll those subsequent years spent toiling away, with barely a bite from the press (particularly after Mike Willisee “turned”….) despite every desperate endeavour one could cook up for attention…..
As it is now 10:30 p.m. in Toronto, its too late to simply for “anyone” to simply call up the Globe and Mail and vilify me, in order to dissuade the staff there from taking me seriously. They have already had a full working day to read through what I wrote and to verify whether what I stated (in comparison to the “spin” they received from the JesusChristians’ spokeman) is accurate or not. The Globe and Mail may, in fact, have already held an “interesting conversation” with the surgeon who operated on Ash…..but then again, it is of course Easter and they are a busy newspaper…they could possibly have waited….
As it is 5:30 a.m now in Cyprus (and 3:30 p.m. AEST in Sydney, Australia) there is probably approximately another three to four hours before Mr Kriakides arrives at his office in the hospital. After about 7:30 p.m. AEST Sydney time, Wednesday 26th every minute may prove to be of the essence…..
“Someone” might need to urgently “engineer” a happy ending to this fairy tale (lets say….”..”prodigal son” happily reconciled with devoted mother” by immediately directing “Alf” to piss off altogether to some nether region of Cyprus (where he could have a wank with his lap-top for the next 72 hours for all anyone cares) and instructing a seriously “loosened up” Ash to call his mother post haste, cheerfully wish her some belated birthday greetings, and invite her over to his bedside, before spending the next few days relaxing together in Cyprus, prior to flying out on his next “mission for God”,
OTHERWISE:
…some poor God forsaken bastard runs the risk of rapidly becoming regarded as the asshole from “Down Under”….which would be just so tragic wouldn’t it, after such a promising start in the media coverage out of Canada for the JesusChristians…
Why, if were in that poor benighted souls shoes, I’d be just that little bit tempted to discreetly relay the appropriate “advice” to those concerned fucking fast…..(if you’ll momentarily permit me the indulgence to so presumptuously refer to the work of an Apostle of God)
However as I not standing in that particular stinking footwear, well… as for me…why I’m just going to have to retire to the bathroom and flagellate myself with the ol’ “cat’o’nine-tails” for the next few hours in the hope that I can somehow temporarily mitigate this crushing weight of remorse which so-o-o oppresses me…..
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2008 12:04PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: March 26, 2008 02:44PM
Joining the Jesus Christians...................$All you own
Donating a Kidney................................$a kidney
Following DM........................................$your soul
Flight for two to Cyprus..........................$big bucks
Malcolm's letter to the Editor..................PRICELESS!
For everything else there's the Credit Company whose photo the JC's use on their web site!
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2008 02:59PM by Blackhat.
Donating a Kidney................................$a kidney
Following DM........................................$your soul
Flight for two to Cyprus..........................$big bucks
Malcolm's letter to the Editor..................PRICELESS!
For everything else there's the Credit Company whose photo the JC's use on their web site!
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2008 02:59PM by Blackhat.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 26, 2008 04:28PM
I will ditto Blackhat regarding your letter Malcolm. Good on you for putting in the effort.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 26, 2008 06:23PM
Dave pretending to be "scared" of a conversation
BTW, I was surprised to hear Lisa say that Aspergers takes away a person's ability to feel empathy. I'm wondering if that may explain the fact, Lisa, that you seemed to be coming down pretty hard on some of us who believe in creative design? It seemed so unlike you, and kind of scared me off for a while.
I do not think I have ever heard Dave say he is "scared" to talk about something. Must be that victim card routine again.
BTW, I was surprised to hear Lisa say that Aspergers takes away a person's ability to feel empathy. I'm wondering if that may explain the fact, Lisa, that you seemed to be coming down pretty hard on some of us who believe in creative design? It seemed so unlike you, and kind of scared me off for a while.
I do not think I have ever heard Dave say he is "scared" to talk about something. Must be that victim card routine again.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Josh
()
Date: March 26, 2008 09:28PM
Quote
Josh copying Dave's Modus Operandi of building an accusation
Communists believe in evolution and communists are evil. So by the transitive property....I've proved my point
Communists are not "evil" Josh, and not all communists believe in evolution.
Ha ha. Sorry about that. I was sick of that conversation and was trying to make a joke. I put a winkie face at the end of that sentance to make sure people realized I was joking. You know like winkie winkie I really don't believe the transitive property proves people who believe in evolution are evil.
As far as communists not being evil though....haven't you ever seen red dawn?! Come On! (Winkie winkie)
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 27, 2008 03:42AM
Thanks for clearing that up Josh.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 28, 2008 03:42AM
This will be my last post for a while guys as I am taking some time out. I am confident that Dave will be kept busy dealing with challenges to his continuing blatant disregard of the thoughts of others over the coming weeks.
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