Good post Malcolm, an dyes, you make some good points about me saying Ross is the "sex professor".

Yes, I also saw Dave's mask of kindness and compassion slip when he was talking with Kim about the chicken.

From LDO. Dave writes:

[www.livingdonorsonline.org]


Here is a tricky problem that probably relates only to altruistic donors.

There are travel expenses getting to and from the hospital for the donation, especially if it is across the country or, in the case of some of my friends, from overseas. My friends have always donated on the understanding that the recipient (or the recipient's family) will pay those actual travel expenses (usually just a round-trip plane ticket and accommodation near the hospital for a short time between being released from hospital and being able to make the trip home).

We can understand that people are nervous about being ripped off by conmen, and so it is often awkward to deal with how those expenses will be paid. Also, it is important that people understand that travel expenses are not "payment" for the donation; they have to be paid, whether or not the operation ever goes through (i.e. the donor STILL has the right to change their mind right up to the end). There is always the possibility that the HOSPITAL will reject the donor as well.

But it is very hard to get all of this across to someone who is living in fear of being ripped off, and it does not seem fair to require someone who is genuine about wanting to donate a KIDNEY to a person in need that they must also donate the cost of TRAVEL and ACCOMMODATION as well, because the recipient doesn't trust them. If the donor pays for all of this out of pocket, and is refunded after the operation takes place, it gives the impression to the recipient that they have BOUGHT the kidney, i.e. now that they have taken delivery, they can pay the asking price.

There was one woman who told the donor that a ticket would be waiting at the airport, and when he got there, he found out that it was one-way. He was only being flown over for tests at that stage and it seemed to be saying that if he did not pass the tests he would have to find his own way home. That just seems so callous. On the other hand, this woman virtually accepted the donor into her family after it all went off without a hitch. So it's not like she was no appreciative afterwards. But there still ought to be an understanding from potential recipients that travel expenses are like any other medical expense; you don't get a refund if they don't solve your problem. Real conmen don't devise ways to get free tickets just so they can travel!

Has anyone else had problems with recovering expenses? And are there any practical tips on how to broach the subject without being offensive?

DM also shows his condescending streak with his "unemployed and housewives" comments, did you all see that?:

Yeah, it does seem to add insult to injury (quite literally) when a donor is expect to pay ANY of the expenses directly related to the donation. I think a high percentage of donors are unemployed (e.g. housewives) who have a schedule which allows the TIME to go through all the tests, etc. anyway.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2008 10:57AM by zeuszor.

Apostate, Zeuszor, Malcolm, Private Eye, thanks...all great posts.

I looked at the Living Donors Online site yesterday and was so overcome with Dave's long distance whining that I was moved to post.

Of course Ezra should get the best after-care possible and the hospital should have held on to him for as long as they could. Back in that rusty, leaky van he is not going to get the care and hygine he needs and deserves.

I agree wholeheartedly with Apostate that no further kidney donations by the JCs should be encouraged. Dave has perverted it into a business and of course the boone of publicity for himself--that long-distance caring father figure.

It really got under Dave's skin that I posted on the donor forum and immediately he posted his slander about me....slave-driving liar that I am. Then he decided to bargain. His post removed as well as mine. Thus you have the "embargoed" posts.

Ezra, I hope you are feeling better.

Dear Dogmother,

Lovely to hear from you again....may I ask if you have kept a copy of what you posted...by "bargaining" I presume David appealed to the LDO site moderators to have you "removed" (and his reference to you removed)...hence the moderators at that site complied completely with David's request that he, and his organization, not suffer any public criticism....IMO it amounts to endorsement.....I'm wondering how liable that might actually make them (Criminal non-disclosure) in the event that any of David's stunts ever happen to "go wrong" in any way...

Malcolm, no, sorry, I didn't keep a copy of the few, short posts I made on LDO. They basically stated people should be aware that McKay leads a cult and hungers publicity for himself. I picked the name "liveandletlive" for myself, but within minutes Dave knew who I was, and he went to town with one of his expansive (really long) exposition about my slave-driving and lying. (I worked my daughter 86 hours now with hardly any pay). It must have freaked those "living donors" out and they started calling me "that crazy woman."
And then he challened me to donate a kidney and told the forum administrators that he would forgo his posts about me if my posts were removed also. So we have the "embargo," though he still has one post that must have slipped in. He was really fast and before I could say "booo" he was all over with his attacks and he had added me to his buddy list. I spent the rest of the evening trying to "unbuddy" myself.

Dave getting upset at someone not following his grammar rules [welikejesus.com]
I have always been critical of people putting down posters on any forum because of their poor spelling or grammar. People can't help it if they lack education. But laziness is a different matters. [sic] And arrogance. And pride. If you are too proud to spell "with" as "with" (instead of wif), then it has nothing to do with us feeling sorry for someone who is a bit slow in the head. I think it's a spiritual problem we are dealing with here.

I think the "spiritual problem" being exposed by this person is Dave doing his usual intolerance of difference. Like the sermon he gave on which way someone squeezes toothpaste out of a tube, who cares how someone says "wif", "fink", "fanks", or "ppl". It is quite cantankerous to make an issue big enough to cause a divide out of a word.

This person goes onto make a point using a deliberately misspelled paragraph that has done the rounds on email chains for years, i.e.

fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too
Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.
i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt

I had to have a chuckle as Dave likes to be spoon fed information, and obviously gets quite upset if he does not get it NOW.

Dave even has two Dyslexic people of his group criticizing this person as a result. There will be no rest for them in his group.

Recently I was introduced to this fellow; his name is Simon and he lives in England. A person I met via YouTube called Shazoolo introduced me to him. I do not have an email address for this Simon, but here is his YouTube contact info:

[www.youtube.com]

Shazoolo runs a Christian website called Spotlight Ministries. I met him and he's started watching the videos I posted on YouTube. Spotlight Ministries' website (Shazoolo's ministry) is here:

[www.spotlightministries.org.uk]

His article on the JCs is here:

[www.spotlightministries.org.uk]

Simon is traveling with the UK bunch on a trial week at the moment. Perhaps you all would not mind contacting Simon and warning him, and/or contacting Shazoolo and helping to better inform him him so that we can warn more people of the JCs? We have an ally in Shazoolo, and he is interested in getting more data about the JCs out via his website. For some reason though, he does not seem so keen on getting involved here at RR's.

[www.spotlightministries.org.uk]

Thanks for your time guys.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2008 04:08PM by zeuszor.

DAVE TAKES IT STRONGLY (FUNNY)

[www.youtube.com]

Thanks for the link, Zeuszor. Yes, very funny, indeed!