While I appreciate you are doing so for the benefits of a wider audience Apostate, I don't think you need worry yourself about the impact "Tosser" cum "Scoffer" might make!


Tofferer (a relatively new poster on the JC forum) replies:

"I frequently find some truths are easier to accept than others. Also, I find that more lies occur when people forget the truth. Organizations are especially guilty of this. Sometime organized churches are even more guilty (and this coming from a "churchie"). When dealing with an organization, especially a church, it is best to try to understand what they know of the truth. Sadly, many modern churches have lost sight of the truth in favor of social programs or pet philosophies and agendas. I've taken the time to carefully study much of what the Jesus Christians believe and I certainly can not find anything disagreeable. In like manner, based upon what I have read regarding "Craig's" posts, I can not find anything to support his accusations. As for Dave's leadership of the JC's, he seems to have been there from the beginning and as such, it is only fitting that he is the leader of this group. From what I can see, he is doing an excellent job. Bravo Zulu" (My highlights!!!)


Are you simply "neurologically challenged" Tofferer? What the JesusChristians DO, (whipping those who can not legally defend themselves, organ - harvesting for publicity, placing all funds in the greedy palms of David McKay or his cohorts) is WHAT they believe!!!....not the prostituted scriptures that they deliberately quote with glazed eyes to mask their activities....No one on this site finds anything "disagreeable" about Christ either!....your observations are thus, just so much nonsense.....particularly when you respond to slander against someone (Apostate) who is unable to defend himself on the JC forum...

(Ross and Ash amongst many others can write (with David watching over their shoulders of course) on this forum anytime they so choose to...)



Just shut up and join them, why don't you......(....and by the sounds of it, don't you just deserve the special "experiences", David McKay will give you!!!)

Go on, just "sign up"!!....there's nothing to stop you!!

It's hard to disagree with a lot of what DM has to say (like the issue of the c-word) sometimes, but the thing is, (as I see it) he always twists the situation to his advantage and ultimate benefit. He uses these truths as mechanisms to control and prostitute others. DM's is a closed system of logic from which one cannot think one's way out.

I compare the mind-control dynamic that is in place in the JCs and other high-demand, abusive groups like them to the old Chinese finger-trap toy: the harder one struggles to free oneself from it, the more tightly it holds you. The solution to being freed is to quit pulling and struggling so hard and simply let go, to quit fighting and struggling. Then it's easy to free oneself from that cycle of circular logic. That's how one gets trapped. Just let go.

Do not conflate opposing DM with opposing Jesus, Tofferer. That's illogical. Like Malcolm rightly pointed out, it's not what DM says that is the problem so much as what he does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2008 10:56PM by zeuszor.

It never ceases to amaze me, the denial that these people are in. Talk about cognitive dissonance. Casey needs a check-up from the neck up.

[welikejesus.com]

The human race has so many good ideas about production, wheather it's meat, vegetables, technology, or whatever; if only they were not motivated by greed in emplementing those ideas

Like Lisa, I think that modern animal farming is not very pleasent. In particular, I feel quite sad about the kind of farming which encloses animals in a very small space so that they can barely move. The idea is to keep the muscles soft and tender for eating later, but the life of the animal must be hell. It's true they are just animals, but they still have feeling and awareness. Imagine being kept in a small box big enough to take 2 or 3 steps in each direction; not very pleasnt at all.

(Casey, in childish singsong voice)

"Lah dee dahh dahh dumm...Dave good, critics bad, David good, critics bad...look at all the pretty bubbles...whee......lalala...Dave good, critics bad..."

Neurologically impaired is right, Malcolm. Did this guy donate some organs, and then get a lobotomy to boot? And have you ever heard of spell-check, buddy? Your spelling is atrocious and it does not help you look very much brighter. You spelling is like that of an eight year old.

Allow me to retort:

The Jesus Christians have so many good ideas about the state of The Church and how to remedy that situation, whether it's working for love and not for money, live organ donation, living off the grid/escaping "The System", or whatever; if only their leaders not hypocritically motivated by greed and lust for power in implementing those ideas.

Like everyone else posting on RR's forum, I think that live organ donation in and of itself is not a bad idea. But organ farming for profit is not very pleasant. In particular, I feel quite sad about the kind of organ farming which encloses DM's willing victims in a very small and narrow minded view of reality so that they cannot think for themselves. The idea is to keep the brain and personal autonomy soft and tender for exploiting later, so that the life of the JCs must be hellish. It's true they are just brainwashed drones, but they still have feeling and awareness, only no independent identity outside of their group. Imagine psychological blinders kept on you at all times, like you were in a small box and were handicapped from taking even a small step forward in your life; not very pleasant at all.

They just hand me (us) this stuff, folks.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 01:03AM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor
It never ceases to amaze me, the denial that these people are in. Talk about cognitive dissonance. Casey needs a check-up from the neck up.

[welikejesus.com]

The human race has so many good ideas about production, wheather it's meat, vegetables, technology, or whatever; if only they were not motivated by greed in emplementing those ideas

Like Lisa, I think that modern animal farming is not very pleasent. In particular, I feel quite sad about the kind of farming which encloses animals in a very small space so that they can barely move. The idea is to keep the muscles soft and tender for eating later, but the life of the animal must be hell. It's true they are just animals, but they still have feeling and awareness. Imagine being kept in a small box big enough to take 2 or 3 steps in each direction; not very pleasnt at all.

(Casey, in childish singsong voice)

"Lah dee dahh dahh dumm...Dave good, critics bad, David good, critics bad...look at all the pretty bubbles...whee......lalala...Dave good, critics bad..."

Neurologically impaired is right, Malcolm. Did this guy donate some organs, and then get a lobotomy to boot? And have you ever heard of spell-check, buddy? Your spelling is atrocious and it does not help you look very much brighter. You spelling is like that of an eight year old.

Allow me to retort:

The Jesus Christians have so many good ideas about the state of The Church and how to remedy that situation, whether it's working for love and not for money, live organ donation, living off the grid/escaping "The System", or whatever; if only their leaders not hypocritically motivated by greed and lust for power in implementing those ideas.

Like everyone else posting on RR's forum, I think that live organ donation in and of itself is not a bad idea. But organ farming for profit is not very pleasant. In particular, I feel quite sad about the kind of organ farming which encloses DM's willing victims in a very small and narrow minded view of reality so that they cannot think for themselves. The idea is to keep the brain and personal autonomy soft and tender for exploiting later, so that the life of the JCs must be hellish. It's true they are just brainwashed drones, but they still have feeling and awareness, only no independent identity outside of their group. Imagine psychological blinders kept on you at all times, like you were in a small box and were handicapped from taking even a small step forward in your life; not very pleasant at all.

They just hand me (us) this stuff, folks.

Zeuszor,

I agree with Casey's point about unpleasant modern farming methods and feel strongly that animals should live with dignity and comfort. Animals should not be kept in pens or cages.

The spelling mistakes are not an issue and you clearly understand him/ her perfectly, so what is the point of ridiculing Casey ?

I think your post is nasty, unnecessaryand offensive.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 04:15AM by muppet.

You are entitled to your opinion. I did not ask for your approval.

I think that Casey is a mindless, flaming idiot.

Offensive? Good. At least it might make him THINK FOR HIMSELF if I piss him off enough. He might snap out of the trance he's in.

You do things your way, and I'll do things my way.

What is he trying so hard to hide? What (or who) is he covering up for?

Here's another bit from the latest headlines:

This is Glenn the double agent, supposedly not having anything to do with David:

"Hmmm Dave,

Something has come up and been said. Which gave me warning lights.

I do not wish to discuss it on the forum, am i able to call you at some point?"


Interesting. I wonder what this it is all about? Why would he need permission to call?

[welikejesus.com]

Also, I noticed in one recent post, David mentions a Quaker asking him not to write to him. David equates that to the killing of Jesus and then goes on to say, that because the JC are followers of Jesus that they have to expect to be killed too. No David, the guy just doesn't want you to write to him.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 04:22AM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor

Like everyone else posting on RR's forum, I think that live organ donation in and of itself is not a bad idea. .[/b]

They just hand me (us) this stuff, folks.

Zeuszor, please do not speak for me when you say ' Like everyone else on the RR's forum, I think....' You actually have no idea what I think.

You're right. I beg your pardon on that point. Do you mind telling us what your considered opinion on the matter of the organ donations is, please?

Are you going to share any of your insights or opinions here with us, or are you just going to play moderator?

I"ll call it "The Casey Mantra:" "David good, critics bad, David good, critics bad, David good, critics bad...." Repeat until you enter a state of semi-consciousness and you feel your perspective start to narrow...

"Om, David good, critics bad, David good, critics bad, David good, critics bad...."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 05:16AM by zeuszor.

Dear Zeusor,

After 50 years of embezzling the ideas of others and swindling whoever he can along the way to realize his nightmare, I am in agreement with you, that the likely hood of David ever changing his ways are close to zero, and the fact that you may as well describe him as a "demon" (....although that does vastly over-rate him IMO, I would seem as something far lower!!) while acknowledging that to date, he physically remains as miserable a "member" of humanity that e'er walked the earth.....Your castigation of him does not raise my ire, as it might with others on this forum....any reconciliation with the Jesus Christian membership and the growing army of ex-members will only ever, literally be over his dead body IMO...

However, while the "long-term" members of the JC's are by now likely to be "soul-dead" (completely without conscience in what lengths of dishonesty they are prepared to go to prop up Davids' religious empire).....I think we should at least continue to hope that "dialogue" is possible (...and yes, I say this with gritted teeth, having just ridiculed Tofferer)....if I get an honest enquiry on this forum from Tofferer, (for example, say on what standards of evidence, are accusations against the JesusChristians based?) ....then I'm obliged to treat that enquiry in all respect....

(Of course, if all Tofferer deliberately chooses to do is take the JCs at their word, without any interest in verifying sources of information, well then....)...

In like manner I think that I'd also have to take seriously the occasions that the members of the JesusChristians speak factually (and yes, I acknowledge that certainly on David's part this is only ever done, with the duplicitous intent of "demonstrating" their integrity)....Factory farming in all its' guises deserves to be outlawed and its products boycotted....I would agree with the sentiments (of many, many others) that Casey is simply echoing here.....To ridicule the content of the statements themselves would only seem to actually detract from the points you which to make about the speaker...

I've never met Casey, but I assume that like Ross he is another of the proverbial "frogs" who David slowly intellectually kills, trapped in a gradually heated pot of liquid....Ross was once "alive".... and I try to remember him as the "human" that was once there.....I cannot say that Casey is "a flaming idiot" despite the occasional "flaming idiocy" of the thoughts he proffers in defence of the tiny little "concentration camp" where he now finds himself, and over whose walls, he apparently no longer wants to see....I'd like to think that Casey is still able to harbour doubts about what he currently is doing "in the name of God" just as I once would have defended David because I saw criticism of him as "rebellion" against the truths Christ taught.....to only have described me as a "flaming idiot" over that period of my life, may well have served to entrench me in those circumstances.....I not quite sure that it would have "shocked me out of it".....it could have.....but I can't say that it definitely would have!!

There will always be scurrilous and vicious individuals like David McKay.....like you, I'd happily just give him over to the Devil!....(and call him "hell-bait" what have you...)

....to better prevent further numbers of "Caseys" though.....we need to take into account how effectively we can demonstrate our hate for the sin (which you do very well Zeusor) and our love for the sinner (where Apostate excels)......and that is probably by regularly being able to point out the logical inconsistencies in the PR (dis)information they circulate, with the lives they are forced to lead....(e.g. mandatory literature distribution quotas for those "freed" under Christ to "live by faith"?????)

"Factory farming" may be psychological opportunism (an attempt to insinuatingly ingratiate themselves to a potential victim by the pretence of interest in an issue about which they neither genuinely care, or know).....but the issue itself may not be a suitable point of "departure" from which best to illustrate the hypocrisy of so much JC cant..

In like manner I think that I'd also have to take seriously the occasions that the members of the JesusChristians speak factually (and yes, I acknowledge that certainly on David's part this is only ever done, with the duplicitous intent of "demonstrating" their integrity)....Factory farming in all its' guises deserves to be outlawed and its products boycotted....I would agree with the sentiments (of many, many others) that Casey is simply echoing here.....To ridicule the content of the statements themselves would only seem to actually detract from the points you which to make about the speaker...

Yes, I see. Personally, I myself (surprise!) am a vegetarian and could not agree more with the indictment of factory farming. Factory meat is nasty. But that is beside the point. I do not know Casey, and have never met him either. It would be better for me to have said that he seems idiotic. Whatever, it's semantics. He's brain-dead. There is no more "Casey." He's donated organs and been through a vasectomy in order to prove his value to DM. He's pretty invested in the group. He's become one of the Pod People now in my view, and I actually feel sorry for what is left of him; I feel no hate for him personally, but DM himself I have no hope for. It's hard for me to find any loving feelings in my heart for him. I'd save his life if it came to it, yes, I'd take him to the hospital or whatever, but I regard him as a personification of evil itself. Make no mistake, I think that he is a rotten human being.


The Pod People are indistinguishable from normal people, except for their utter lack of emotion. The pod people work together to secretly spread more pods—which grew from "seeds drifting through space for years"—in order to replace the entire human race.

[en.wikipedia.org]

I am doing some research now, looking for quotes over at the JC domain and will write more later.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 11:31AM by zeuszor.

Yes, here it is:

[welikejesus.com]


There are people even now amongst Friends who can see that the reaction against us is irrational, but as one Friend whom we once regarded as a very dear friend (in the true sense) said to us, he had to weigh up his options, and he needs an organisation where he can find fellowship and support more than he needs us, and so he asked us not to write to him anymore. It is, of course, this same kind of "expediency" that killed Jesus. And Jesus said that if we try to walk in his footsteps the same things will happen to us.

David, I'll say it again: YOU ARE NOT JESUS. Rejecting you does not mean that the man rejected Jesus. He simply needs fellowship and support more than he needs you. He wised up and disassociated himself from you. Good for him.

It is SO creepy to me, the way DM constantly makes references to martyrdom, killing, death...highly volatile, to say the least.

Malcolm, you are ever-eloquent. Thanks for your words of support.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 11:48AM by zeuszor.