This is a really interesting post, and brings up something about the status of women in the Jesus Christians. A really interesting point, and I think I get where the poster is coming from. Think about all the sexist stances David has promulgated. I get the idea that it would be really good for an influx of inspired women to join the Jesus Christians and maybe flush some of their patriachal (David) stuff out, either by change or via a crisis in the ranks.

Quote
hello
You know- something exciting is happenning at the JC forum. There are lots of really wonderful people offering their support- and people who want to join. These are autonomous, grounded people who were able to see past the Jeremy
Kyle Show and have investigated further. There have been some morons- ie some person who was talking about masturbation and kidney donation as a sin.... but a lot have been really reasonable and compassionate people.
The energy of the forum always looked so stale before.. there was no flow..no life..no colour- the photos that the JC's put up were never of themselves..always abstract images..
I remember there was one photo of a man and his child- but to my recollection- that was it.
I think- correct me if I'm wrong..what we wanted was to see CHANGE and GROWTH. We became frustrated after a while...
There are lots of new people over there- LOTS. There are even photos of some rather sexy women...and I say that as a mother and woman.- who completely approves! That is what made my heart soar- the JC's need far more women in order to restore the imbalance.
So many of us have been too emotionally involved with the JC's to bring positive change. There are going to be so many new people that will be challenging Dave, who Dave doesn't yet have a grudge against.
The people that are posting over there are like us...remember we were once really inspired by the JC's...and these people have good spirits and emotional intelligence.
For once I agree with Dave, both sides are getting what we want. More women in the JC's please!

Watching Cherrie on the JK show was really sad for me, because from my experience I recognised that she is number one victim. Sue could have been number two victim, but there is something sinister in her conscious choice to align herself with what she sees as the power base that I saw, maybe that thing of her limited choices now she is so far into it. I think she is a willing conspirator with David, for her own queenish purposes.

So funnily enough, I agree. A big influx of visionary women in the JC's could be just the medicine Jesus is sending to them right now!

(party political statement follows:)

Of course, anyone contemplating joing the Jesus Christians is encouraged to go over all the pages on this forum, look at the information here:

[culteducation.com]

and do their own research into this cult before deciding to give all their worldly possessions to David McKay without ever getting their money back.

They should also be aware of the strong possibilty of sustatining spiritual, physical, emotional and/or social injury as a result of joining this cult, even to the point of organ sacrifice for ritual purposes.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2007 06:41PM by Blackhat.

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Dogmother
My reaction to the Wall Street Journal: far too wishy-washy. There is and should never be any ambiguity about a person being coersed into donating a body part. We all know Dave is not doing it for alturistic reasons, ever. He's addicted to publicity and constantly has to find outrageous "projects" to stay in the public eye.

Does Ms. Meckler realize he "preps" his people to pass the hospital's psychological tests? Does she have any conception what it means to be part of a cult? The pressure involved?

Jon Ronson, in the Guardian's Blood Sacrifice, did a much better job uncovering what was at the bottom of that "poisoned chalice" Dave gave him to drink. Ms. Meckler drank it.

Thanks for simple, black and white public outlets like the recent Jeremy Kyle Show, where there's no ambiguity and Dave appeared as the insane cult leader he really is.

The media in the UK seem to have less of a preoccupation with "political correctness" than do their American counterparts. They seem to be less afraid to call a spade a spade (or a cult a cult) over there. They are less sensitive about not offending anybody. I could be wrong, but this is the impression that I get. That being said, I thought that the WSJ article was pretty lukewarm too. But it could have been worse.

More telling quotes:

[cust.idl.net.au]

On 2 March, 2002, when British journalist and film producer, Jon Ronson (a Jew) was trying to get us to believe he would do a serious documentary on what we believe, and when he offered to ferret out the reasons the churches have for opposing us, Dave sent him the following letter, as a beginner's guide to the theological accusations and religious subterfuge that we knew he would encounter. History has shown that Ronson never had any intention of seriously examining our position. However, the message of the letter is still valid. So rather than let it go to waste, we include it here.

Why does DM feel it necessary to point out that Jon Ronson is Jewish? What is he trying to say here? From what I have learned about DM, he seems to court the Jewish community. Not to bring racial issues into it, but research reveals that the JCs seems to target middle-aged or older Jewish persons as kidney recipients; about half of their recipients are Jewish. Why is this? The only reasonable explanation that I can think up is simply big $$$. When I think of the international Jewish community, the first word that comes to my mind is not the word "poverty." Why do the JCs seem to prefer to donate to elderly Jewish folks? In the words of "Slick Willie" Sutton, "Because that's where the money is."

[cust.idl.net.au]

"We're Right and They're Wrong"

Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart. Until we examine the motives behind actions (and God has given us a lot of information on how to do that), it cannot be said that people are equally right or wrong just because they are engaging in similar activities.

[cust.idl.net.au]

"Thou Shalt Judge"

It is not judging that is wrong; but rather judging by false standards. In John 7:24 Jesus says, "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment," i.e. "thou shalt judge!"

There are scores of references to judgment and judging in the Bible. Almost all see judgment as good, and a lack of judgment as bad. In fact, the word hypocrite comes from two Greek words that mean with too little judgment.

The world in general, and the church in particular, is in the mess it is in today because of a lack of judgment. "Judge not" has become the cornerstone of an amoral world and a hypocritical church.

Chaos results if every makes up their own rules according to their own opinions.

You will know them by their fruits....



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2007 03:49AM by zeuszor.

The will is disabled primarily through the emotions..As emotions get bound by shame, their energy is frozen, which blocks the full interaction of the mind and will. - John Bradshaw

The demand for a false self to cover and hide the authentic self necessitates a life dominated by doing and achievement. - John Bradshaw

They can let you out of jail now, because they've put the jail inside your mind.- Starhawk.

When what was done to me was done for my own good, then I am expected to accept this treatment as an essential part of life and not question it.- Alice Miller

We cannot heal what we cannot feel.- John Bradshaw.

Repression will always call forth a compensatory counter activity of the unconscious which will, through the back door, force upon us the very thing we are trying to repress. - Edward Whitmont.

One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. - C.G Jung.

Emotion is the chief source of all becoming conscious. There can be no transforming of darkness into light and of apathy into movement without emotion. - C.G Jung.

Romance is the deepest thing in life. It is deeper even than reality.- G.K. Chesterton

The JC's understanding of Chesterton - though they love to quote him- is as fragmented as their understanding of themselves.

Hope you guys don't mind me quoting.......Merry Christmas to you all BTW and hearfelt prayers.

A FEW MORE QUOTES

"Some of our greatest catastrophes have been caused by people talking, and some by people not talking." Stephen Hawking

"A cult is a religion with no political power." Tom Wolfe

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to believe." Laurence J. Peter

For new readers,

Anyone contemplating joing the Jesus Christians is encouraged to go over all the pages on this forum, look at the information here:

[culteducation.com]

and do their own research into this cult before deciding to give all their worldly possessions to David McKay without ever getting their money back.

They should also be aware of the strong possibilty of sustatining spiritual, physical, emotional and/or social injury as a result of joining this cult, even to the point of organ sacrifice for ritual purposes.

Anyone considering joining the Jesus Christians should also bear in mind one of the universal truths that applies to all cults.

Namely, "give up everything and follow God" actually means "sell everything you have and give the money to the cult leadership".

Watch out for your wallets, people!

Dear Hello,

Could you point out (e.g. sample "cut'n'paste"s ) some of the "exciting things" that are happening at the JC forum...sorry but I seem to have missed them!....(with thanks!...)

A LETTER TO DAVID

Good afternoon David. My day is going well and I trust that yours is too.

The reason I am writing this letter is to tell you of the lovely and enlightening conversation that I had earlier today with your mother, Alice. We spoke for twenty minutes or so and she did not hesitate to tell me her memories of you. I explained to her that I was a researcher and that I was looking into your background, trying to piece together a bio of you. I said that if anybody would remember David as a kid, it would be his mother. She was very open and friendly, plain-spoken. She told me that you have not seen one another in several years and rarely communicate. Such a sweet woman she is, such a deep believer, very religious and strong in faith. She told me that she did her best to teach you right from wrong and always stood up for your when your father was antagonistic and thought that you were up to no good. She told me your father always thought that you were undisciplined and gave you a hard time but that she always stood up for you, and that even as a child you were prideful, vain, rebellious. That was the word she used to sum up her memory of you as a kid: rebellious. She further told me that she now realizes that your father was right and that you were lacking in discipline and were extremely manipulative.

This all does not come as a shock to me; in fact, her testimony only confirms what I have suspected all along. She told me that she did her best to raise you good and that she has not a drop of pride in you or what you do. She knows about how you rip families apart, and how you have a pattern of jumping onto other people’s bandwagons and trying to take over other people’s projects, and told me of how she is just ashamed of you and for who you turned out to be.

She told me that early on you had the goal of going into the mission field, and felt called to live as a full-time missionary, from the age of eight in fact. She confirmed that your family was very religious and that your brothers all turned out to be genuinely pious people. She told me how as a kid you read the Bible thoroughly and that she was always surprised at how you could memorize and recite whole passages of Scripture. She told me of how you’d preach to neighborhood kids and your classmates. She told of how in high school you started some kind of Bible Club but that it didn’t last long and ended badly, something about interpersonal conflicts.

She told me that she knows how you are, that you have more or less always been that way, and that she knows exactly how you rip families to pieces , use those kids to raise money, turn people against one another, she told me about your weird, hurtful, and attention-seeking stunts as a kid too (she even confirmed that the “beggar story” is true) and were generally manipulative, attention-seeking, and obsessed with the Bible from a very, very early age. She told me that once one group of followers or given group of people gets wise to you, you simply move on and find a new group to feed from, a new host to leech off of, so to speak. And she said you were like that even as a kid. I asked her why you moved to Australia in the first place, and she said that you just said something vague, that you were leaving to be a missionary, and that she hasn’t heard from you much or had much relationship with you since.

She said that you never smoked or drank or partied as a kid, that you were a bit nerdy really, and that you were not exactly a troublemaker, but you were very manipulative, attention-seeking, and always trying to be the center of attention, trying to organize things around yourself. She said of you, “He always wanted to be famous. He always wanted his name in lights.” That you were always critical of Billy Graham and other big-time preachers, and that you wanted to be bigger than them even, that you were in fact jealous, but that you lacked the discipline to go out and do it yourself. She told me of the slick suit, with the white jacket and dark slacks, that you won and went around the world in. Her words were “And then he married that girl and I haven’t heard much from him since. “ Didn’t seem to know Cherry well, or even her name for that matter. She was very open about how she hasn’t spoken with your kids, her grandchildren, in years. She just was very frank and open in speaking with me and gave me a lot of info in not much time.

She told me of how you stayed up all night once in her home, reading the Left Behind series (she said that she loves those books), how you were taking copious notes, and that shortly after that visit you began working on Survivors. She said that LaHaye and Jenkins tried to sue you, also.

The most positive aspect of David's past and present life is his 86 year-old mother, Alice. She's a most kind woman, who is deeply religious. Her faith in God sees her through the grief of having raised a son like David, a man, who causes as much devastation to other families as he has caused to hers. She loves her son, though is ashamed of him, but does not support his self-seeking mission. She hardly ever hears from him and that's hard for any mother, especially in her reclining years.

She is such a nice woman, your mother, a saintly person, and so ashamed of you. She said that she was always nice to you, always stood up for you, and that she doesn't understand why you treat her so poorly. Ashamed to call you her son, she is. Don't you have a drop of the milk of human kindness running through your veins, David? Broke my heart, it did, speaking with your mother. You ought to call her soon. It is the Holidays, after all. In case you don’t have her number, I’ll send it to you. When was the last time you called your mother and told her that you love her, David? When was the last time that any of the Jesus Christians called their mothers to tell them that you love them? Oh yeah, and speaking of mothers: the mother of an ex-member, the mother of one of your victims, called your Mama too, before I did. You can ask your mother which one it was when you call her.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2007 06:38AM by zeuszor.