How about this as an interesting way to communicate….for “mutual enemies” to alternatively read the exchanges made about each other on posts both of them either can’t or won’t contribute to…… Ash first!!

(All quotes posted in early May 2007 on the JC Website!)

"While not everyone at Rick Ross is of the same mind, the posting there rarely rises above unfounded accusations, and usually consists of personal attacks and sardonic humour. It is also controlled in an authoritarian manner with the purpose of stifling real debate". ASH

Why, Ash, I have yet to hear back from Fran in relation to why the Quakers were “brain dead” churchies in my day (with the JC’s), and we now find that they have been “rehabilitated”…nor have I noted any response from you in respect to the scenario I described in relation to the abuse of the “grievance” system…..there have been a number of detailed accusations in these pages in relation to your methods of funding, the deliberate estrangement of family, and blackmail of non-members (say by threatening their “access” to their children with the JC’s)….all of which is routinely dismissed by you….(hence we can only read into this that you lied in your earlier posting to this forum, where you stated...

"I can also assure you that I truly have more difficulty than I ever did before joining the JCs in accepting, condoning, or practicing unethical behaviour. Not only that, but my perception of what is unethical has widened, not shrunk. Again, if you have a specific in mind that you wish to discuss, just ask…" ASH


(Of course we understand why Ash….This is what David makes out of people who choose to be influenced by him)…….

From the records we have before us, the only way to “negotiate” with the JC’s is the crude exercise of power David regularly engages in (such as his illegal dismissal from the JC’s of his own son who questioned the “Consul for life” political model)…….for example in the passage of new laws restricting your ability to abscond with minors)

...but here's a recent gem from David…..to someone who had their posting "doctored"....

"The second, and more significant, complaint had to do with your endorsement for the Rick Ross forum, and your urgings (even in this latest post) for Angela to go there for enlightenment of some kind. What she will encounter there, for the most part, are some bitter twisted ex-members and other hate-mongers flaming in any way they possibly can anything that I do or don't do. It is an envirnoment where people are simplhy not allowed to stay on if they persist in defending the Jesus Christians. (Rick Ross is notified immediately if there is someone who turns up defending us/me.) Far from being an open forum, where both sides are given an opportunity to be heard, it is a forum dominated by hate. On the other hand, people are allowed to post here (like Malleeboy) even if they oppose what we stand for. There is a section of this forum which is reserved for some of the stronger opponents (and anyone can access it if that is the kind of stuff they want to read), so there is no "censorship" here as Malleeboy suggests. Urging someone who has shown some interest in what we are saying to go to such a place is akin to endorsing the non-stop flames that burn over there. If you want to address stuff that Angela is saying herself, here in a place where the rest of us are allowed to respond, that is different. But this forum is not here to act as a promotion for Rick Ross and his little Rickettes." DAVID


Does the JesusChristian entry in wikipedia contain a reference referring readers to the Rickross form or no?.....If so, then CENSOR the contributions of that author from the JesusChristian Web site (…or go to Hell with your hypocrisy…)....just as much as you edit “malleeboy”s contributions...

Please nominate who provided the wikipedia entry (…but lo!....not some tired old gentleman currently “on the lam” with Ash as I write, surely!!)

"BTW, the latest raves from Malcolm, in which he seems to be going progressively more insane center on some claim that I called the posters over there "Dave haters". I don't think I did, and I can't remember anyone here using that phrase, but it certainly did hit a sensitive nerve for Malcolm (and a few others). Can anyone here remember if that terms was ever used here?" DAVID

A “heart-felt” apology is duly tendered if I have attributed a “quote” to David, inerrantly.


Finally from Ash (you are free to post the rest of the thread Ash or the earlier email…if I have “misrepresented” you…..do tell me how!!)

"Tsk tsk Ross, you know you may have just lost your status as one of Malcolm's rehabilitation hopefuls with language like that". ASH


Of course the way to really throw the “cat among the pigeons” would be to covertly encourage David to believe that any current members somehow had less than 100% loyalty to David (Oh…I’m sorry I was meant to say “Jesus” wasn’t I) and then watch David progressively “shred” you as he got on your case, time and time again……..despite your pleas of loyalty to the bitter end……


…then you would be a little better able to appreciate the testimony in these pages!

The JC's certainly seem to be upset at the freedom of speech represented in these pages. I do not know why they bother to refer to themselves as Christians it is quite obvious that they are not. They are, for want of a better word, "DA'VIDIANS". Look out the Da'vidians are coming. :roll: Even to hear them speaking, it is "David says" or "the article David wrote says". Check out Joes rant that tolerance and turning the other cheek doesn't work. Yep, they have lost any sense of what the teachings of Jesus actually say since deciding to become Da'vidians.

They even call us "david haters", is that comparable to "anabaptists"? :lol:

Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
Why, Ash, I have yet to hear back from Fran in relation to why the Quakers were “brain dead” churchies in my day (with the JC’s), and we now find that they have been “rehabilitated”…nor have I noted any response from you in respect to the scenario I described in relation to the abuse of the “grievance” system…..there have been a number of detailed accusations in these pages in relation to your methods of funding, the deliberate estrangement of family, and blackmail of non-members (say by threatening their “access” to their children with the JC’s)….all of which is routinely dismissed by you….(hence we can only read into this that you lied in your earlier posting to this forum, where you stated...

I answered your questions, I am waiting for your reply before I respond to your next red herring. In case you missed my post, here it is again:

Quote

Dear Malcolm,

Thanks for your post. I do understand that you have been in my position, and have decided that it wasn't one where you felt comfortable. I am fine with that. Needless to say I have not come to the same personal conviction as you have. I recognise that whether I am in or out of the JCs does not affect what I can or cannot do, it is merely my personal judgement that I am more supported in the things that I feel led to do for God inside the JCs.

Yes, there have been a great many things that have been happening for a lot longer than I've been alive, but I hope that doesn't mean I can't have an effect on them :) The example that you gave is one of those things that happened before my time. I don't really see the point in asking Dave what happened if you don't accept his account. Perhaps you could elaborate from your personal experience as to what you think is unethical about what happened in Medowie or with the Catholics?

As for your question about why the Quakers were "just so many “brain-dead” churchies" during your time in the JCs, I am not sure that they were considered so. We JCs certainly don't currently teach that people are judged on the basis of their organisational affiliation, but rather their personal relationship with God. Do you disagree with this assesment?

These two examples seem to be a good place to start the analysis. I still think that you would benefit from laying off the morbid humour. Noone is paranoid that you really are a closet assassin, but when someone keeps making jokes (scriptural or not) about murder, it does obstruct positive, constructive dialogue.

You have a nice way with words there Apostate....I guess as David is the "root" of it all and his erstwhile family the "trunk" the JC's could best describe themselves as "Branch Davidians"......(David must be disappointed that someone has already "been there and done that"....!)

.....forgive me for forgetting to state the obvious....but I must acknowledge the tribute David recently acknowledged us. Sometimes the lack of "feed-back" makes it difficult to be certain, but David still feels so threatened by the matters mentioned on this site (...and a thank you to the moderator...) that he continues to feel obliged to edit any positive referrals to us, that may be viewable to the public amongst the "Davidspeak" on the JC site.....wheras I (I think amongst others here) have stated that I expect those interested in the issues should access the JC literature and at least read it in order to be conversant with the matters under discussion...David is uncomfortable enough with our ongoing postings to want to seek to publically "deny access" to this site, by permiting only the exclusive broadcast of postings that pillory us on the JC site.....

We still mean SOMETHING to him...(...my hearts' a'flutter and my cheeks aglow!!!....)

Love to all mothers out there and especially to those who have had their motherhood undermined by Dave. Much love today X


WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT MOTHERs
Mothers are honoured throughout the world. Even the Lord gave due respect to the mother. The 'Bible' also throws light on the place of mother in the life of a human being.

Gen 3:20
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.

Exo 20:12
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

Lev 19:3
"Each of you must respect his mother and father, and you must observe my Sabbaths. I am the LORD your God.

Deu 5:16
"Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

2 Ki 4:30
But the child's mother said, "As surely as the LORD lives and as you live, I will not leave you." So he got up and followed her.

Prov 10:1
The proverbs of Solomon: A wise son brings joy to his father, but a foolish son grief to his mother.

Isa 66:13
As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem."

Ezek 16:44
"Everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb about you: "Like mother, like daughter."

Luke 1:43
But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Luke 2:51
Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

I must confess to my fellow Rickettes that lately I have been tempted to return to the only group that's fully following Jesus under his anointed apostle, David J McKay.

I so miss selling leaflets and books to strangers in car parks who swear at you as you try and disturb their shopping. I miss the technique of putting it into their hands and making them feel they owe me money for it. I so miss having to meet dony and lit quotas. I so miss having David tell me exactly where to go to to distribute and being in submission to His plans. I so miss being shamed when I have not met targets.

I really miss those all night grievances and meetings where you knew the only way out was to agree and be a yes man but to try to say it appearing to not be a yes man. I really miss Davids constant care in being involved in every nitpicking decision. I especially miss grievances over really small things, like grammar and the way you said a word or how you squeezed out toothpaste or how you used toilet paper. How wonderful to be so cared for even for the little details!

I miss feeling like I am one of the very few righteous people in the world and the smugness of knowing my superiority because I had the humility to submit to Dave's every command. Few people were as humble as me.

Don't you miss having to go along with hairbrained schemes you disagreed with because you knew even prison would be easier than the grievances you would endure? That certainly made us more humble and therefore worthy of being God's elite.

Do you think if I offer them 3 organs at once that they will take me back? Perhaps a kidney, a slice of liver and half my brain? I'll still be able to sell Davids books then, don't you think?

Would he take you back? I think that Dave would have no choice but to accept you. Perhaps he would send you to the JC brat camp for a while, so you could do a Nullabor walk while fasting or something until your humility was tuned. I say go for it! Don your sackcloth and ashes and go in beating yourself with a cat of nine tails! Dave would be impressed with a bit of self flagellation, especially if it were on TV. You may need to RENOUNCE us very loudly and individually to impress the captain, for example 'I renouce Apostate who proved he was a reprobate when he mentioned Corban. Then do a little stomping ritual dance.' I renounce Malcolm who proved he was a reprobate when he ... ' Renounce Jon Ronson again and again and again... that sort of thing. You could always sell the books on amazon and put your feet up, have a snooze at a Quaker meeting. He may even have forgotten who you are and let you off with a kidney.
Is it true that he is beginning to forget everything and the senior members want to take the reins from him?

What is this about
[en.wikipedia.org]

'This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.'

[en.wikipedia.org]

Dear Ash,

(Again, I thank you for the time you have taken to contribute to a forum of "losers"...in Davids' humble opinion!) I'm sorry I missed your earlier reply....I occasionally do not "backtrack" sufficiently on postings.

I still stand by most of the "theory" of the JesusChristians, so I would certainly agree with your observation that people shoud by judged by their personal relationship with God and not by their religious affiliation.

The Medowie Christians period and mass conversion to Catholicism are periods were I was not a member of the group (and thus you will understand that I am relying on the "twisted slant" on it all that I have received from other former members) but in principal they would appear to be occasions where the JC's publically presented themselves less than honestly, in the hope of "acquiring" disciples by stealth.....I am sure that you are familiar enough with the scripture to know that Christ openly disputed releigious practices with the Pharisees where he felt they compromised the word of God. I cannot think of an instance in Scripture where Christ misrepresented himself in better order to access potential "sheep"....

As I have stated previously I am quite prepared to consider that you and several others of the JesusChristians are donating kidneys out of sincere motives....May God bless you for doing so. Does David really need to use the occasion to "buy" publicity.....the free community work and the mission in India all came to a close when David felt that he had wrung as much publicity out of it all, as he could. (Then it was back to the all important "litnessing"). That somehow seems less than "sincere" to me (....which the JC website describes as the basis of your theology...).

There appears to be no intrinsic value in anything in Davids' eyes...are you of the same opinion?

Cultmalleous has described better than I, some of the endearing micro-management techniques Daivd engages in, (and which bring to mind again the utter relief I felt when I first found my way out of the JC's...)

However, speaking for myself, I will also note several positives of the whole experience which in my instance were a very immediate encounter with the provision and direction of God, the rich fellowship with others in similar circumstances....and very, very distantly the thoughtful and kindly concern of a human being called David Mckay.....(a mythical figure for me now somehow lost in the mists of time and difficult to associate with the man we all have come to know since then.....)

Apart from the matter that there is no genuine "debate" with David, (He has become so conceited as to have stopped entertaining the rights of others to have divergent views on matter both small and large and thus EVERYTHING becomes a festering sore...be it "vountary" distributing quotas or organ-harvesting solely for the purposes of publicity)....

......David has engaged in whatever personal mockery he can of me (among many others) for decades now, and the "throw-away" relationship he perpetuates with Joes family or your parents ( or really almost anyone for that matter) means that the dice is well and truly cast here.....and thus while I am prepared to engage in a (somewhat more)"sombre" tone of debate with you,....for the time being, it remains a "no holds barred" duel with David.

Some years ago my family had the extreme misfortune to cross paths with Dave McKay when a family member was recruited and went 'missing'. An extensive search began and I was part of the search party. More than a year later and after extensive negotiations with McKay, the family met briefly on another continent under the watchful eye of Dave McKay, after they agreed to his terms. These involved providing information and signing documents at his direction. My observation at the time was that Dave used his members like pawns on a chessboard. Our experience is that Dave does not need to be in the vicinity to be in control. You are providing a great service to have this information publicly available. We are no longer oppressed.
Eoin