Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
cultmalleus
()
Date: March 03, 2007 01:25PM
apostate, that was truly great.
On another note,
It strikes me that one major difference between current JC members and many ex JC's is the attitude to "the System". Basically many of us found the JC's are not a viable alternative to the system. In fact the JC's are a more oppressive and totalitarian system than the general Western democratic pluralistic economic and political system.
(Being a pluralist, I am very happy if ex JC's disagree with me on this!)
Many of us were influenced by various media to see things in a very black light, with problems in the world, poverty, oppression, inequality and increasing disasters and environmental and nuclear threats leading us ever closer to the Apocalypse.
Since leaving the group and seeing that things aren't quite so bad many of us have stopped being "revolutionaries" and instead see the road to global improvement (and indeed the fulfillment of the Kingdom of Heaven) taking place through more mainstream organisations.
A good example is how much good work YRG Care has done over the years. (A group we were involved with in India)
[www.yrgcare.org]
Another article struck my eye today, discussing just how much poor countries have developed and improved using mainstream system methods over the last decade or two. (Im hoping some present JC's might read this) Sure, there is need for political and social action to influence the distribution and environmental impact of this new wealth, but we musn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[www.theage.com.au]
Present JC's must consider whether what they are doing builds the K of H or just Dave's empire.
On another note,
It strikes me that one major difference between current JC members and many ex JC's is the attitude to "the System". Basically many of us found the JC's are not a viable alternative to the system. In fact the JC's are a more oppressive and totalitarian system than the general Western democratic pluralistic economic and political system.
(Being a pluralist, I am very happy if ex JC's disagree with me on this!)
Many of us were influenced by various media to see things in a very black light, with problems in the world, poverty, oppression, inequality and increasing disasters and environmental and nuclear threats leading us ever closer to the Apocalypse.
Since leaving the group and seeing that things aren't quite so bad many of us have stopped being "revolutionaries" and instead see the road to global improvement (and indeed the fulfillment of the Kingdom of Heaven) taking place through more mainstream organisations.
A good example is how much good work YRG Care has done over the years. (A group we were involved with in India)
[www.yrgcare.org]
Another article struck my eye today, discussing just how much poor countries have developed and improved using mainstream system methods over the last decade or two. (Im hoping some present JC's might read this) Sure, there is need for political and social action to influence the distribution and environmental impact of this new wealth, but we musn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[www.theage.com.au]
Present JC's must consider whether what they are doing builds the K of H or just Dave's empire.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 03, 2007 03:36PM
Quote
cultmalleus
apostate, that was truly great.
On another note,
It strikes me that one major difference between current JC members and many ex JC's is the attitude to "the System". Basically many of us found the JC's are not a viable alternative to the system. In fact the JC's are a more oppressive and totalitarian system than the general Western democratic pluralistic economic and political system.
(Being a pluralist, I am very happy if ex JC's disagree with me on this!)
Many of us were influenced by various media to see things in a very black light, with problems in the world, poverty, oppression, inequality and increasing disasters and environmental and nuclear threats leading us ever closer to the Apocalypse.
Since leaving the group and seeing that things aren't quite so bad many of us have stopped being "revolutionaries" and instead see the road to global improvement (and indeed the fulfillment of the Kingdom of Heaven) taking place through more mainstream organisations.
A good example is how much good work YRG Care has done over the years. (A group we were involved with in India)
[www.yrgcare.org]
Another article struck my eye today, discussing just how much poor countries have developed and improved using mainstream system methods over the last decade or two. (Im hoping some present JC's might read this) Sure, there is need for political and social action to influence the distribution and environmental impact of this new wealth, but we musn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
[www.theage.com.au]
Present JC's must consider whether what they are doing builds the K of H or just Dave's empire.
Being a fellow pluralist, I agree with you Cultmalleous. That is something we missed completely while in the JC's; i.e. it is not about agreement, but respect for others and their perspectives. The JC's understanding of the Kingdom of Heaven (KOH) is so small, it is practically a joke. In the JC KOH there can be be no disagreement, no difference of opinion, no different perspectives, no choice. The "mind of Christ" to them is simply subserviance to the doctrine of Dave, and evangelism is spending their lives trying to get all other minds to conform. Their "born again" experience is simply a capitulation of mind from whence a black and white world veiw emerges. This they call "walking in the light".
They represent a completely oppressive regime. I for one am glad that such groups do not have the political clout they so desperately hunger for. If Dave was around several centuries earlier he might have been a Luther or a Calvin. They were both blood thirsty individuals who justified an end justifies the means approach to life as well.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
matilda
()
Date: March 04, 2007 12:33PM
Apostate,
Your interpretations of Dave's teachings are accurate.
Following yours and Malcolm's post I would like to add these to the treaty of charges.
David McKay encourages recruits to deal with relatives and deter them from speaking the truth about the group to the press. In many cases, this has involved recruits being used in strategies including emotional blackmail of close relatives.
David McKay claims to be like many other Christian mainstream churches, yet denies the Trinity and teaches that Jesus was just a man.
Your interpretations of Dave's teachings are accurate.
Following yours and Malcolm's post I would like to add these to the treaty of charges.
David McKay encourages recruits to deal with relatives and deter them from speaking the truth about the group to the press. In many cases, this has involved recruits being used in strategies including emotional blackmail of close relatives.
David McKay claims to be like many other Christian mainstream churches, yet denies the Trinity and teaches that Jesus was just a man.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 04, 2007 01:34PM
Quote
matilda
Apostate,
Your interpretations of Dave's teachings are accurate.
Following yours and Malcolm's post I would like to add these to the treaty of charges.
David McKay encourages recruits to deal with relatives and deter them from speaking the truth about the group to the press. In many cases, this has involved recruits being used in strategies including emotional blackmail of close relatives.
David McKay claims to be like many other Christian mainstream churches, yet denies the Trinity and teaches that Jesus was just a man.
Sounds good Matilda.
Here is an interesting snippet from a conversation Ross, Joe, and Josh are having currently on the JC forum. It is from Dave.
[i:bc93f31219]"Ross and Joe seem to be leaning more toward devaluing stuff that Paul says that just doesn't seem to make much sense, even if it is not clearly contradicting the teachings of Jesus (e.g. head coverings). "[/i:bc93f31219]
I find it interesting because Dave makes it sound like Ross and Joe came to the idea of devaluing the Apostle Paul of the Bible by themselves, when it is obvious to anyone who has been in his group that Dave himself teaches this; and therefore they are simply reflecting what he has taught. This is another classic tactic of his to escape responsibility for what he teaches. It is a fact that if Ross or Joe placed a higher value on what Paul says Dave would argue with them.
Dave wants to present the image that he is surrounded by free thinking individuals, but he knows that they are only regurgitating his own stuff. He may be able to con Josh about this, but we ex members know different. Dave is in "relating" mode towards Josh.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: March 06, 2007 12:35AM
Quote
matilda
Apostate,
Your interpretations of Dave's teachings are accurate.
Following yours and Malcolm's post I would like to add these to the treaty of charges.
David McKay encourages recruits to deal with relatives and deter them from speaking the truth about the group to the press. In many cases, this has involved recruits being used in strategies including emotional blackmail of close relatives.
David McKay claims to be like many other Christian mainstream churches, yet denies the Trinity and teaches that Jesus was just a man.
David McKay acts out of fear rather than love- and if any member of his community try to behave in a manner contrary to this mindset- they are accused of being selfish and not putting the community- therefore Jesus first.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: March 06, 2007 12:43AM
Dear Cultmalleous and Apostate,
On one of the numerous times I was in the "sin bin"
(and hence had to spend time to prayerfully find out
what was wrong with ME!) during the last couple of
years in the Jesus Christians, I went to the Sydney Library
and read a couple of Gandhi's works! (Gandhi of course
being honest enough to acknowledges his sources)...
it was surprising (and strangely liberating even then) to read
that so many of "Davids"' novel ideas ("A New Economy" for example
...were actually predated decades or centuries
earlier (the Russian Anarchists for example in the pre communist period
or Ruskins writings) by other long established authors, of note.
David is not well read, and possibly was originally not aware of this,
but these days I think he just deliberately CHOOSES not to be well read
(and "encourage" his "disciples" not to source material that does not originate with him),
as it would potentially threaten the foundational myriad of "myths" his house of sand rests on.
The "system" yet has good and bad in it, either of which we are certainly in a position to sagely discern,
and which on average, is a long sight better, than the "Brave New World" of the JesusChristians.
(Oh, Thank David,...Look there's still an unopened packet of Soma here
that the Alpha disciples didn't treat themselves to....)
I must vouchsafe Apostates point that David "toys" with debate,
purely with the intention of "displaying" his acumen, and that any position one
might take
(even where you are abashedly "recasting" his own teachings
to him) would be "bettered" by him in some "clever" riposte....humiliation of others
(.."they could never be the leader I am, can't you all see that"..)
in order to better cement the postion he holds, is the "hidden agenda"
behind any "open dialogue" with him....there's just too much at stake!!!
On one of the numerous times I was in the "sin bin"
(and hence had to spend time to prayerfully find out
what was wrong with ME!) during the last couple of
years in the Jesus Christians, I went to the Sydney Library
and read a couple of Gandhi's works! (Gandhi of course
being honest enough to acknowledges his sources)...
it was surprising (and strangely liberating even then) to read
that so many of "Davids"' novel ideas ("A New Economy" for example
...were actually predated decades or centuries
earlier (the Russian Anarchists for example in the pre communist period
or Ruskins writings) by other long established authors, of note.
David is not well read, and possibly was originally not aware of this,
but these days I think he just deliberately CHOOSES not to be well read
(and "encourage" his "disciples" not to source material that does not originate with him),
as it would potentially threaten the foundational myriad of "myths" his house of sand rests on.
The "system" yet has good and bad in it, either of which we are certainly in a position to sagely discern,
and which on average, is a long sight better, than the "Brave New World" of the JesusChristians.
(Oh, Thank David,...Look there's still an unopened packet of Soma here
that the Alpha disciples didn't treat themselves to....)
I must vouchsafe Apostates point that David "toys" with debate,
purely with the intention of "displaying" his acumen, and that any position one
might take
(even where you are abashedly "recasting" his own teachings
to him) would be "bettered" by him in some "clever" riposte....humiliation of others
(.."they could never be the leader I am, can't you all see that"..)
in order to better cement the postion he holds, is the "hidden agenda"
behind any "open dialogue" with him....there's just too much at stake!!!
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
cait
()
Date: March 06, 2007 08:17PM
Hi Hello,Quote
hello
David McKay acts out of fear rather than love- and if any member of his community try to behave in a manner contrary to this mindset- they are accused of being selfish and not putting the community- therefore Jesus first.
There is a great deal of fear in David, and a huge lack of love. The fear is projected out into his acolytes, who must vainly attempt to subdue it with the gifts of their love.
Not all of this fear is born of his own self-perceived inadequacies. The fear of any attack on his creation is of course a very real and ever-present threat, hence the need for a united retreat in the face of the magnitude and multitude of dangers to be met on every front always, mostly from those who actually care about you.
But it can't be no party in there : we all know, a leader's work is never done, and nor is it ever easy, damn it : on top of everything else, there is this tremendous burden of guilt to be borne, and that task[i:386755c955] simply must[/i:386755c955] be shared by all members of the community if it is to be made [i:386755c955]at all [/i:386755c955]tolerable.
Honestly, how on earth could 25 lashes even start to expunge the weight of that guilt? Would Hitler have settled down to conduct a benign administration if only some-one had offered to flog him after Kristallnacht?
For that matter, what in this world, short of self-crucifixion, can ever really affirm David's essential innocence to the enemy? Gee, I do hope he doesn't pinch my idea, like he did to that guy who wrote the screenplay for the movie about altruistic kidney donation. Hope he never gets to see the Silence of the Lambs either... In fact I really hope some-one makes a movie about some guy who retires and works out how to make peace with himself, his God and the world he currently inhabits, and that Dave gets thinking about that on his next plane trip...[b:386755c955][/b:386755c955]
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
hello
()
Date: March 06, 2007 11:20PM
Dear Cait,
I really can't imagine to begin to understand the worry and guilt that you are probably experiencing. Just know that you - as a parent have not done anything wrong- in fact- it is probabaly all the things that you did right- that has enabled Ash to be exploited. I'm sorry that I don't have anything more meaningful and concrete to offer you.
I don't expect you to answer this on the forum- but are you getting any more support or counselling about this - other than what is on this forum- it can't hurt to have too much support and to meet with other people that have been through similiar experiences. I'm sure this must be extremely painful for you.
My heart goes out to you and everyone else involved.
Bless.xx
I really can't imagine to begin to understand the worry and guilt that you are probably experiencing. Just know that you - as a parent have not done anything wrong- in fact- it is probabaly all the things that you did right- that has enabled Ash to be exploited. I'm sorry that I don't have anything more meaningful and concrete to offer you.
I don't expect you to answer this on the forum- but are you getting any more support or counselling about this - other than what is on this forum- it can't hurt to have too much support and to meet with other people that have been through similiar experiences. I'm sure this must be extremely painful for you.
My heart goes out to you and everyone else involved.
Bless.xx
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
apostate
()
Date: March 17, 2007 03:41PM
It is good that the forum is back up. Dave has been a busy little beaver in the few days it was down for repairs.
He has tried to coax ex members to come out and speak with some "documentary" producers Here is his "I double dare you" school yard taunt.
The "Gosh it is awfully quiet out there" snide remark reveals how impatient and demanding he is.
Next he starts in on his last remaining child in the cult, i.e. his daughter Christine by challenging her belief that she not donate a kidney, even though she claims "God" has told her not to donate. Does this stop Dave... no, because nobody can receive a contrary direction to the what he wants, even if that person is his own daughter, and even if that person says "God" has told them not to.
But what is even more telling in this whole sad and dreary saga is that Dave is actually scheming and plotting events out of his control, i.e. media sympathy if his wife (Cherry) should happen to have kidney problems. He is scheming how to manipulate relatives to donate, and on that basis his daughter should donate her kidney against her own beliefs to wait. It is a classic example of how hard it is to say no in that group.
It is clear that there is immense peer pressure in the group to donate kidneys contrary to claims that there is not. It is clear that the pressure is so strong that there is no hesitation challenging a person who says “God” has told them otherwise… the very cornerstone of their supposed belief system about following such leadings and allowing individuals the right to do so.
That quote exposing that sad saga is posted below
Next, last but not least. The King of catch 22 has posted an article on his site about the great whipping “hoax”. I note he is now moderating his previous stand to make himself appear more palatable for media consumption, not to mention how it exposes how it is all a game to him and there is no sincerity in what he does. Now it was just a scam to bring us all out of the woodwork. Gee he certainly was a lot more defensive of his right to whip that Kenyan volunteer than what he portrays in this article when I was speaking with him directly about it before being banned . It is also of interest that the Kenyan volunteer that was whipped for no other reason that that he "stole" from the group is conviently swept under the carpet in an attempt to cover the groups tracks, because in their mind they appear more gracious in the other whipping they engaged in at Longbeach California. I am sure the documentary crew would be interested in that bit of news fodder.
Anyway here is the article in which Dave claims it was all just a "Hoax"
What can I say after all this. First off I am stunned that current members of the cult are not disillusioned by such wanton boasting that it was all a game or plan to get ex members and finally publicity for himself.
Gone are all the claims of pure motives and sincere hearts regarding the reasons behind the whipping at Long Beach.
Gone are all the claims that people are free to follow God within his group and that there is NO coercion to donate kidneys.
Gone is any sense of credibility as a result... but then I already knew that.
He has tried to coax ex members to come out and speak with some "documentary" producers Here is his "I double dare you" school yard taunt.
Quote
This is an open invitation to all the flamers who have visited this site. We are presently being filmed for a documentary, and the producers would like to hear from someone who opposes what we stand for. They have even asked us for some tips on how to locate such people.
The amazing thing is that so many of the flamers are both anonymous and afraid (even anonymously) to make themselves heard in a forum where others may be allowed to question what they say. It's really not easy for the media to get anyone out in the open on their gripes against us. Strange, isn't it? I mean, if we are so evil, and if people have so much good evidence against us, why aren't they queueing up to announce what they know, in order to save the world from us?
There have been a few people who have used their real names: Craig, Malcolm, Brian, and Kevin. Then there's Jon Ronson, David Millikan, and even Rick Ross. But this could also be a great opportunity for people like Tony, Attila, Jessica, Annette, James, Nick and Kate, even Liesel and Berni to come out of the closet and add their voice to the clamour. Lay it all on the line, share all the juiciest bits from your 37 (or is it 38?) complaints against me and the Jesus Christians. This is your opportunity, folks. Of course, we'll need an address, phone number, or at least an email address where the media can contact you. Have we got any takers?
Gosh, it's awfully quiet out there!
The "Gosh it is awfully quiet out there" snide remark reveals how impatient and demanding he is.
Next he starts in on his last remaining child in the cult, i.e. his daughter Christine by challenging her belief that she not donate a kidney, even though she claims "God" has told her not to donate. Does this stop Dave... no, because nobody can receive a contrary direction to the what he wants, even if that person is his own daughter, and even if that person says "God" has told them not to.
But what is even more telling in this whole sad and dreary saga is that Dave is actually scheming and plotting events out of his control, i.e. media sympathy if his wife (Cherry) should happen to have kidney problems. He is scheming how to manipulate relatives to donate, and on that basis his daughter should donate her kidney against her own beliefs to wait. It is a classic example of how hard it is to say no in that group.
It is clear that there is immense peer pressure in the group to donate kidneys contrary to claims that there is not. It is clear that the pressure is so strong that there is no hesitation challenging a person who says “God” has told them otherwise… the very cornerstone of their supposed belief system about following such leadings and allowing individuals the right to do so.
That quote exposing that sad saga is posted below
Quote
"We were discussing kidneys here in Sydney yesterday. Our daughter has never donated, and said that she thought maybe God was leading her to save her kidney for Cherry, in case Cherry ever needed it. I suggested that if Cherry did need a kidney (at our age), maybe I could give her my OTHER kidney! The reasoning is that, even if a kidney fails, these days most people can survive for five or ten years on dialysis, and I'll probably end up dying before Cherry anyway.
But, of course, the bottom line in our discussion was what Ezra pointed out, which is that if a few people are able to get the ball rolling, so that others start parting with their "spare", there'll be more than enough spares for everyone if a donor ultimately needs a kidney, or if a relative of a donor ever needs a kidney.
And even if that did not happen, I wonder whether the MEDIA might not be more inclined to carry a story about a relative of a donor who now needs a kidney. What I mean is that there would probably be more sympathy on the part of the public for the need of someone who had been deprived of a relative's kidney by the premature generosity of that relative.
In Cherry's case, for example, she has a lot more relatives than me and Christine, and so there is good reason to believe that if we gave to someone else now, then one of our other relatives might give to Cherry if/when she would ever need a kidney.
SOURCE: [welikejesus.com];
Next, last but not least. The King of catch 22 has posted an article on his site about the great whipping “hoax”. I note he is now moderating his previous stand to make himself appear more palatable for media consumption, not to mention how it exposes how it is all a game to him and there is no sincerity in what he does. Now it was just a scam to bring us all out of the woodwork. Gee he certainly was a lot more defensive of his right to whip that Kenyan volunteer than what he portrays in this article when I was speaking with him directly about it before being banned . It is also of interest that the Kenyan volunteer that was whipped for no other reason that that he "stole" from the group is conviently swept under the carpet in an attempt to cover the groups tracks, because in their mind they appear more gracious in the other whipping they engaged in at Longbeach California. I am sure the documentary crew would be interested in that bit of news fodder.
Anyway here is the article in which Dave claims it was all just a "Hoax"
Quote
[b:d64ac77f46]
The Great Whipping Hoax[/b:d64ac77f46]
It is probably reasonable for us to reveal something now that may not necessarily be called a "hoax" as I have done in the title, but which has certainly enlisted the support of people who had no intention of giving us support. And it all relates to the trial that happened in Long Beach last October.
There was a great deal of discussion amongst ourselves before the decision was made to go through with the "trial" for Joe's family. We shared openly with each other and with others who showed some interest that there were many and varied reasons for what we finally decided to do. We had no misconceptions about the fact that the trial would have the effect of shocking people, and even making them think that we had finally cracked up or gone off the rails. We were not particularly keen to have this happen, and yet it was better than what has happened for many years, which is that people have simply turned away from us and pretended that we were not there.
Witness the fact that, despite a huge profile in Australia for a quarter of a century, only one religious publication has ever featured a report on us and what we stand for. This is not accidental. They know that we exist. They know that we have a high profile. They know that what we are saying is radical and yet solidly based theologically. Yet the say nothing. Why? Because (a) they disagree with what we are saying; but (b) they have no solid answers for it.
This "excommunication" has existed amongst religious organizations, the media, many friends and loved ones, and even angry ex-members. Malcolm left us twenty years ago, saying that we would hear from him when he succeeded in finding something with which to nail us. We heard virtually nothing from him for twenty years.
And then came the announcement that we were going to hold a trial for four people who conspired together to savagely attack Reinhard, with a whipping being prescribed as the punishment. It had heresy written all over it: violence, revenge, even racism (considering that the offenders were African Americans). The fact that we ourselves were going to take the punishment on behalf of the offenders, of course, did alter the heresy a bit; but we were pretty sure that the media, the churches, our enemies, and ex-members would be so excited about the implications of the first part that they would not even HEAR the second part.
Sure enough, that is exactly what happened. In the space of just a few months, there were more than a thousand postings on the Rick Ross anti-cult forum, with over 50,000 visits from people interested in hearing about the awful Jesus Christians. And that is only one cult-busting site. (We haven't bothered checking any others.) Fox News couldn't help but come and do a documentary on us, making sure, of course, that they did not include any of the trial (even though they attended it), or any explanation that would relate to why we ourselves were actually taking the place of the offenders. And ex-members? Well, if the Rick Ross forum is any indication, more anonymous ex-members have turned up than actually exist! They were each pushing and shoving to raise their hands and say, "I knew all along that they were evil."
Remember that these are the same people who have said nothing for as much as twenty years. Finally, they had us!
So we set about answering their questions and asking a few questions ourselves. As things quieted down, it became clear that, while what happened was controversial, there really was nothing hateful, vengeful, or even un-Christian about it at all. [b:d64ac77f46]They had been caught in the hoax that coaxed them out of their holes.[/b:d64ac77f46] Everyone was out in the open, but no one had a clear understanding of what it was that we had done wrong.
One by one, we Jesus Christians were banned from even answering the complaints that were being made on the Rick Ross forum, because our answers were causing too much embarrassment. Without us being able to speak up in our own defence, they were free to let their imaginations run riot with false charges to make up for their over-reaction to the Long Beach trial. We were accused of sympathising with pedophiles, holding hostages, fighting against the teachings of Jesus, claiming to be one of the Two Witnesses, getting rich on child labour, theft, fraud, unspeakable actions that were "worse than mass murder or serial rapes", and so on and so on. The list continues to grow, and (surprise, surprise!) each new accusation that is added to it, goes on without the slightest hesitation from the mob that is calling for me and the rest of the Jesus Christians to be "taken out". No lie is too extreme to be added to the list. Any semblance of fair play has slipped off the table.
Well, from our perspective, we have them right where we wanted them all along... out in the open and embarrassing themselves with false and unproveable accusations. Yeah, sure, we are not allowed to speak up in our own defence on the Rick Ross forum, but we have the right to READ it now, and that was something we were never allowed to do when they simply whispered their lies behind our backs. And we have the opportunity to respond on our own forum and through our own web site (as evidenced by this article).
It is significant that they have virtually all fled from our forum, even though they are allowed to post there. While they continually accuse me of being a control freak, and accuse Jesus Christians of having no freedom, we leave our forum wide open, and they hide in a forum where only people who agree with them are allowed to post. It says a lot, doesn't it?
Recently Malcolm posted (over at the Rick Ross forum) an explanation for why he has never posted on our forum. Listen to it:
I must vouchsafe Apostates (sic) point that David "toys" with debate, purely with the intention of "displaying" his acumen, and that any position one might take (even where you are abashedly "recasting" his own teachings to him) would be "bettered" by him in some "clever" riposte....humiliation (sic) of others (.."they (sic) could never be the leader I am, can't you all see that" (sic)..) in order to better cement the postion (sic) he holds, is the "hidden agenda" behind any "open dialogue" with him....there's (sic) just too much at stake!!!
What does it all mean? It is Malcolm's flamboyant and rambling way of saying that Dave only allows free speech because he has better arguments than the opposition; so don't be lured into actually speaking to him directly... there is too much to be lost by doing so.
So, in summary, the Jesus Christians are now reaching many more people than we did before the Long Beach trial. And the reason is simply because so many of our critics have come out in the open with their complaints now. It's not nice being so cruelly and unfairly attacked, but at least we have the opportunity to respond now, and with or without bans on the Rick Ross forum, the issues are being debated. We thank God for that.
What can I say after all this. First off I am stunned that current members of the cult are not disillusioned by such wanton boasting that it was all a game or plan to get ex members and finally publicity for himself.
Gone are all the claims of pure motives and sincere hearts regarding the reasons behind the whipping at Long Beach.
Gone are all the claims that people are free to follow God within his group and that there is NO coercion to donate kidneys.
Gone is any sense of credibility as a result... but then I already knew that.
Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by:
muppet
()
Date: March 18, 2007 03:47AM
Dave surpasses himself again with his myths. There has been no excommunication but Dave craves the limelight. There has been coverage of the group and it has been negative on the whole. What does he want? Does he want the Catholics church, the AOG and all the other churches he has infiltrated to start preaching his evolving message? Unlikely!
It is a myth that all the JC's have been 'excommunicated' or banned here. To my knowledge, Fran, Ashwyn and Josh are free to post here and have not been banned. Rick could you comment ? Is this true?
It is a myth that all the JC's have been 'excommunicated' or banned here. To my knowledge, Fran, Ashwyn and Josh are free to post here and have not been banned. Rick could you comment ? Is this true?
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.