It's also been a little more than fourteen years since that informal interview with your mother took place, David. She basically said that you've always been as you are now; that is, she said you've been manipulative, self-centered, and attention-seeking since your youth. She also said that she is ashamed of you, and hates who you grew up to be. My favorite part of that interview, was when she spoke of how (as a high school student) you got kicked out of the very Bible Club that you'd started. How ironic is that? It's not surprising, though, and it explains a lot, in terms of explaining, in part, why it is that you are so ruthless about expelling others from your group. You got kicked out of a group that you started once, and it's as if you want to be sure that that will never happen again. Hell, David, you kicked your own son and his family out of the group, on Good Friday in April of 1996. That was "the Split" and you expelled about a dozen members that time. In the rain, too. Damn, that's cold. You are an evil man, David, and you have tried your damndest to silence me over the years but I refuse to be silenced. I'll be watching, and will be waiting for you to leave this world until you do so.

zeuszor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A LETTER TO DAVID
>
> Good afternoon David. My day is going well
> well and I trust that yours is too.
>
> The reason I am writing this letter is to tell you
> of the lovely and enlightening conversation that I
> had earlier today with your mother, Alice. We
> spoke for twenty minutes or so and she did not
> hesitate to tell me her memories of you. I
> explained to her that I was a researcher and that
> I was looking into your background, trying to
> piece together a bio of you. I said that if
> anybody would remember David as a kid, it would be
> his mother. She was very open and friendly,
> plain-spoken. She told me that you have not seen
> one another in several years and rarely
> communicate. Such a sweet woman she is, such a
> deep believer, very religious and strong in faith.
> She told me that she did her best to teach you
> right from wrong and always stood up for your when
> your father was antagonistic and thought that you
> were up to no good. She told me your father
> always thought that you were undisciplined and
> gave you a hard time but that she always stood up
> for you, and that even as a child you were
> prideful, vain, rebellious. That was the word she
> used to sum up her memory of you as a kid:
> rebellious. She further told me that she now
> realizes that your father was right and that you
> were lacking in discipline and were extremely
> manipulative.
>
> This all does not come as a shock to me; in fact,
> her testimony only confirms what I have suspected
> all along. She told me that she did her best to
> raise you good and that she has not a drop of
> pride in you or what you do. She knows about how
> you rip families apart, and how you have a pattern
> of jumping onto other people’s bandwagons and
> trying to take over other people’s projects, and
> told me of how she is just ashamed of you and for
> who you turned out to be.
>
> She told me that early on you had the goal of
> going into the mission field, and felt called to
> live as a full-time missionary, from the age of
> eight in fact. She confirmed that your family was
> very religious and that your brothers all turned
> out to be genuinely pious people. She told me how
> as a kid you read the Bible thoroughly and that
> she was always surprised at how you could memorize
> and recite whole passages of Scripture. She told
> me of how you’d preach to neighborhood kids and
> your classmates. She told of how in high school
> you started some kind of Bible Club but that it
> didn’t last long and ended badly, something about
> interpersonal conflicts.
>
> She told me that she knows how you are, that you
> have more or less always been that way, and that
> she knows exactly how you rip families to pieces ,
> use those kids to raise money, turn people against
> one another, she told me about your weird,
> hurtful, and attention-seeking stunts as a kid too
> (she even confirmed that the “beggar story” is
> true) and were generally manipulative,
> attention-seeking, and obsessed with the Bible
> from a very, very early age. She told me that
> once one group of followers or given group of
> people gets wise to you, you simply move on and
> find a new group to feed from, a new host to leech
> off of, so to speak. And she said you were like
> that even as a kid. I asked her why you moved to
> Australia in the first place, and she said that
> you just said something vague, that you were
> leaving to be a missionary, and that she hasn’t
> heard from you much or had much relationship with
> you since.
>
> She said that you never smoked or drank or partied
> as a kid, that you were a bit nerdy really, and
> that you were not exactly a troublemaker, but you
> were very manipulative, attention-seeking, and
> always trying to be the center of attention,
> trying to organize things around yourself. She
> said of you, “He always wanted to be famous. He
> always wanted his name in lights.” That you were
> always critical of Billy Graham and other big-time
> preachers, and that you wanted to be bigger than
> them even, that you were in fact jealous, but that
> you lacked the discipline to go out and do it
> yourself. She told me of the slick suit, with the
> white jacket and dark slacks, that you won and
> went around the world in. Her words were “And
> then he married that girl and I haven’t heard much
> from him since. “ Didn’t seem to know Cherry
> well, or even her name for that matter. She was
> very open about how she hasn’t spoken with your
> kids, her grandchildren, in years. She just was
> very frank and open in speaking with me and gave
> me a lot of info in not much time.
>
> She told me of how you stayed up all night once in
> her home, reading the Left Behind series
> (she said that she loves those books), how you
> were taking copious notes, and that shortly after
> that visit you began working on Survivors.
> She said that LaHaye and Jenkins tried to sue you,
> also.
>
> The most positive aspect of David's past and
> present life is his 86 year-old mother, Alice.
> She's a most kind woman, who is deeply religious.
> Her faith in God sees her through the grief of
> having raised a son like David, a man, who causes
> as much devastation to other families as he has
> caused to hers. She loves her son, though is
> ashamed of him, but does not support his
> self-seeking mission. She hardly ever hears from
> him and that's hard for any mother, especially in
> her reclining years.
>
> She is such a nice woman, your mother, a saintly
> person, and so ashamed of you. She said that she
> was always nice to you, always stood up for you,
> and that she doesn't understand why you treat her
> so poorly. Ashamed to call you her son, she is.
> Don't you have a drop of the milk of human
> kindness running through your veins, David? Broke
> my heart, it did, speaking with your mother. You
> ought to call her soon. It is the Holidays, after
> all. In case you don’t have her number, I’ll send
> it to you. When was the last time you called your
> mother and told her that you love her, David?
> When was the last time that any of the Jesus
> Christians called their mothers to tell them that
> you love them? Oh yeah, and speaking of mothers:
> the mother of an ex-member, the mother of one of
> your victims, called your Mama too, before I did.
> You can ask your mother which one it was when you
> call her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2021 08:45AM by The Whirlwind.

[forum.culteducation.com]

This is a very good and very informative interview with a former member of the McKay group. It's about six years old, and is one of the few interviews with a former member that you'll ever find. Most ex-members of the McKay group will not talk with anybody (interview or debriefing-wise) post-exit. They're too scared, ashamed, embarrassed, and what have you. The accounts of Malcolm Wesley Wrest and Ufuoma E-Ashogbon are the only such interviews I know of. None of his kids (the ones who left, anyway) have ever agreed to be interviewed by anybody.

[blog.ufuomaee.org]

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a very good and very informative interview
> with a former member of the McKay group. It's
> about six years old, and is one of the few
> interviews with a former member that you'll ever
> find. Most ex-members of the McKay group will not
> talk with anybody (interview or debriefing-wise)
> post-exit. They're too scared, ashamed,
> embarrassed, and what have you. The accounts of
> Malcolm Wesley Wrest and Ufuoma E-Ashogbon are the
> only such interviews I know of. None of his kids
> (the ones who left, anyway) have ever agreed to be
> interviewed by anybody.
>
> [blog.ufuomaee.org]

There's those two, and there's also the accounts of the Gianstefanis (Roland and Sue) about what happened to them, and Ross' account, and poor Alan's too. But, these are not really interviews; they're more like testimonies. Dave McKay has left quite a path of human destruction over the years.

[makingitreal.wixsite.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2021 11:01AM by The Whirlwind.

Very interesting The Whirlwind, thank you.

Well, look who's here; if it's not Bryan Apollo! You are welcome, man, how have you been? Happy new year.

I was hoping to attract some attention from the old crew (so to speak) and here you are.

The McKays never stopped; they only slowed down a bit and I have been keeping up with them as best I can.

As far as I know, there are none of them in the States right now but they are in countries now that they didn't used to be in (like certain Central and South American countries, and the Philippines).

You are in the UK, right? Have they been active over there, as far as you know?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2021 12:28AM by The Whirlwind.

Have you ever read Jon Ronson's The Psychopath Test, Bryan Apollo? David is right there; the first chapter of that book is basically "Kidneys for Jesus" in print. See for yourself. Please check this out; the first chapter can be read online here:

[www.panmacmillan.com]

"On the day I received Deborah’s email inviting me to the Costa Coffee I was in the midst of quite a bad anxiety attack. I had been interviewing a man named Dave McKay. He was the charismatic leader of a small Australian religious group called the Jesus Christians and had recently suggested to his members that they each donate their spare kidney to a stranger. Dave and I had got on pretty well at first – he’d seemed engagingly eccentric and I was consequently gathering good material for my story, enjoyably nutty quotes from him, etc. – but when I proposed that group pressure, emanating from Dave, was perhaps the reason why some of his more vulnerable members might be choosing to give up a kidney, he exploded. He sent me a message saying that to teach me a lesson he was putting the brakes on an imminent kidney donation. He would let the recipient die and her death would be on my conscience.

I was horrified for the recipient and also quite pleased that Dave had sent me such a mad message that would be good for my story. I told a journalist that he seemed quite psychopathic (I didn’t know a thing about psychopaths but I assumed that that was the sort of thing they might do). The journalist printed the quote. A few days later Dave emailed me: ‘I consider it defamatory to state that I am a psychopath. I have sought legal advice. I have been told that I have a strong case against you. Your malice toward me does not allow you to defame me.’"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2021 04:53AM by The Whirlwind.

"Kidneys for Jesus": this is a very good documentary, in which we see Dave McKay's true colors come out. Go to the thirty-five minute-mark. Dave is saying that he will let this woman Christine die, just to spite Jon Ronson. Is that what Jesus would do? What kind of wholesome "Christian" leader would do such a thing?

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2021 06:20AM by The Whirlwind.

"It is fun spitting in the face of a world who is too busy taking themselves so seriously. If you can't laugh at yourself every once in a while, that's too bad."

One of Dave's disciples, a woman named Grace, wrote that on the Jesus Christian forum about 14 years ago. She'd been recruited into the group a little more than a year before that, along with a man named Jose-David and as well with Joe Johnson. Jose-David and Grace were recruited out of Oregon, and Joe from California.

2006 was a busy year for the McKays.

Jose-David was the man who was holding the whip, and who did the whipping for the 2006 Long Beach whipping incident. It was Jose-David who administered the lashes to those "sentenced" in that mock "trial."

Joe is still with the group to this day, Jose-David was expelled from the group sometime before 2009 and Grace is now a nurse who lives in the Pacific Northwest. I do not know how Grace left the group, whether she was expelled (like Jose-David) or if she left voluntarily, but I know for sure she is out.

Grace used to preach that "Freeganism" stuff more fanatically than anybody. It's good to know that she grew up, and is working in a respectable profession now. She eventually figured out that one DOES need money in order to live in this world. She joined "the System" and is no longer taking pleasure in spitting in the face of the world.

More about the whipping incident here. Grace is the person in the background at the seven-minute mark:

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2021 07:07AM by The Whirlwind.

hello compadre! What a pleasant surprise this is and Happy New Year to you too. Your commitment is to be both admired and appreciated.

I'm still here in bonnie Scotland. I have continued to monitor their activities and according to my sources there have been no local sightings of the cult in any of it's various forms. The tireless ''rebranding'' of the cult continues though the same level of control and coercion exists.

In other news, a senior member of the Children of God paedo cult (of which Dave McKay is a former member) was recently convicted here in Scotland and sentenced to 11 and a half years, as reported by the Daily Record newspaper. Dozens of victims have now come forward and hopefully this can inspire and encourage Dave's many victims to also come forward.