Thank you Imagodei....'The most shocking teaching of Jesus' is a Jesus Christian Youtube production?

(....The most most shocking prostitution of the teachings of Jesus...it could be far more accurately accurately renamed if David McKay is behind the thing!)

Was the author of this post definitely a JesusChristian (disciple of McKay)?

I wasn't in the organization when they were harvesting kidneys to satiate David's need for notoriety....(YES...individual JesusChristians have assured me that from their personal perspectives they acted out of Christian love...from a GROUP perspective...only two individuals DID not donate..Christine and Sherry...McKay's daughter and his wife...their personal relationship with the 'KING' (David) giving them the political weight to be in a position to be able to refuse)...

However I imagine that the donations would simply become an opportunity for members to 'prove' the strength of your devotion to the cause....and that those JesusChristians who DID not surrender a kidney would only have branded themselves to be 'weak' in the faith....within the group....(which effectively is the 'universe'...anyone OUTSIDE the JesusChristians are simply inconsequential spiritually of course)..

THAT is a very concerning post I agree.....a variant of 'trial by ordeal'....where the extent to which you are prepared to 'sacrifice' yourself places you among the most 'spiritually elite'....of the JesusChristians.

Pointing out the dangerous license over their lives that such a practice gifts McKay (with a little hyperbole based on their own professed beliefs) might be worth the time...

I would personally challenge them with a completely and overtly ridiculous 'ordeal of faith' that would allegorically alert them to the fact that they are well and truly being 'played' here....for all that McKay can get out of them...

If the author of that posting IS in fact a member of the JesusChristians....ask them if the verses (Matthew 16 : 25, Matthew 10 : 25, Luke 17 : 33, Mark 8 : 35) are the sort of principles that the JesusChristians seek to live up to....

(Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. (Luke 17 : 33)...)

They will of course answer 'Yes'...

Then challenge them to instead of 'merely' injuring their hand ....to REALLY prove their faith....instead of this inconsequential temporary wound

(...and also in the interest of remaining celibate in the service of Christ by 'killing the flesh' Galations 5: 24...another fetish of McKay's

.."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts")

...why don't they try tatooing an image of David McKay on the tip of their penis (...I could not think of a more fitting tribute to the dick head himself....but naturally enough...don't admit that to that motivation....you are simply interested in establishing the extent to which they are prepared to be selflessly 'obedient' )

I mean it's just so 'easy' to slightly slit some skin on your hand...even 'plucking out your eye' would be only painful for a limited period of time.....but tatooing your penis!...HEY! ..now THAT would be A statement, wouldn't it!! (...clearly something that would say everything you need to know about being a JesusChristian...would be have the likeness of McKay there..)

Just think of it!!...the JesusChristians would once again be able to demonstrate to the world how 'sincere' they in their faith...and yet again...ever so boldly illustrate their extraordinary 'devotion'....thus inspiring all and sundry to forsake all they have and follow David...whoops...Of course I meant Jesus there!....etcetera..etcetera...

Challenge them with this 'proof' of faith....See what response you provoke!

(They would actually become trapped in their own idiocy...if they refuse to consider doing so....they are of course 'not fit for the Kingdom of Heaven'...as they 'love their life'...more than the news of the Gospel...this is exactly the circular reasoning that McKay uses to prove to them their inadequacy...and why they 'need' to be subject to his abusive manipulation in order to deliver themselves....)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2020 01:48AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Yes: thank you, Imagodei, for your attention, concern, and help. See, it's less my prerogative to try to "reach" those who are in the group, to try to persuade them to leave Dave's association. In my experience, that approach is basically an exercise in futility. But have at it; I do not mean to discourage you from trying to dialog with them. If you can "reach" somebody who is a present-day member of the group, and somehow influence them to voluntarily leave the group, then more power to you. For my part, I am more interested in trying to generate negative attention for the Jesus Christians, so that others might not fall into Dave's psychological traps. You might want to ask them why it is that if the Jesus Christians are a "Work for God, not for money Christian community", that they have need of an Australian business number? And I wonder what their DBA is now?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

I am fairly certain the user that posted what I quoted is a disciple of McKay. At the very least, they spend majority of their time on Reddit spreading David's theology and linking to A Voice in the Desert (AVID). AVID, End Time Survivors, and The Mark of the Beast are all YouTube channels ran by the Jesus Christians. They have one channel entitled "A Voice in the Desert Exposed" that has several videos attempting to explain past controversies and the cult accusation. They also have a channel entirely in Spanish with translated AVID videos, and I'm sure they have more I have yet to find.

Some users are more upfront in their proselytizing, engaging Christians and citing verses/teaching Dave's theology, always linking to AVID, but others are more subtle and post in non-religious subreddits, casually bringing up AVID at the very end of their post. They dress up their posts and comments in a way that seem as if they are genuine but really they're just trying to get people to watch their videos.

My desire in trying to reach them is to show them that they have been deceived and are following a false teacher, since the ones I encounter claim to follow Christ. I've been attempting to discuss Matthew 6:24 with them as I believe I can demonstrate how Dave has twisted it's meaning. I have had interactions with 3 of the 6 users I have identified as members (though one has said they have 2 accounts, so maybe it was only really 2 users) and I have reason to believe some of the accounts are operated by multiple people. They will sometimes respond to my comments as if interacting with me for the first time when we've had previous lengthy conversations.

They haven't been responsive to my comments lately, but that's probably due to the fact that after they stopped responding to me I have been following their posts and comments and warning users that they are a cult with false teachings. For people who are theologically ignorant, lack discernment, and/or are in a overall bad situation, their videos can seem enticing. The fact that they do have some valid criticisms of modern Christianity makes them seem credible and genuine. Thankfully several of the moderators of the subreddits they post in have identified them as spam and insta-remove their posts and comments. I've also noticed them post in several Facebook groups I am in as well.

I will ask some of the questions you've suggested and the proposed arguments if I am able to engage in an genuine discussion with a member again. I may try posting on the forums if I am unable to get a response, though as noted, it will likely not be very fruitful.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2020 06:40PM by ImagoDei.

One of the people featured in this video (I will not identify them by name) got kicked out of the group about ten years ago, and is now a nurse who lives in the Pacific Northwest. This is NOT a recent production by any means. "No compromise" indeed. Today, they're working a system job like everybody else. Once again, Dave is using the work of somebody who he kicked out of the group, to promote the same group! How ironic!

[www.youtube.com]

[www.broadjam.com]

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2020 11:36PM by The Whirlwind.

Thanks Imagodei for going to this all this trouble.... If I can ever assist you at all here (just let me know) otherwise no one can do any more than you are doing!

When they don't come back in response to you....you can take that as confirmation that they feel 'threatened' by you and consequently have judged you to be 'hard of heart' and a 'goat' unprepared to accept 'Christ's teachings'.....(the usual rationalizations that you will find commonly across many of the cults that feature on the Cult Education Institute.....)

I absolutely agree with your assessment....that they are able to prey upon anyone subject to despondency or who has a poor background in scripture. David McKay himself has long long reached the point in Timothy 4 : 2....


'1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3Forbidding to marry, .....'

Where he will simply fabricate outright falsehoods....in defence of his cult and his operations... and think to himself that ANY dishonesty he engages in...are no more than 'white lies' completely justified in the defending the far 'greater truth' of the 'Kingdom of Heaven' ...(i.e. his cult!)

Avoiding addressing 'uncomfortable' issues, calling your 'sincerity' into account....engaging in bluster that is intended to obscure the point you have made....are all indications that you are dealing the deceived souls within the JesusChristians.

Malcolm Wesley WREST Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Imagodei for going to this all this
> trouble.... If I can ever assist you at all here
> (just let me know) otherwise no one can do any
> more than you are doing!

I second that. If there is anything I can do to help, then please let me know.

Imagodei, please tell me (either here or in a private message): what names are they using on Reddit and Facebook?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2020 11:42PM by The Whirlwind.

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the people featured in this video (I will
> not identify them by name) got kicked out of the
> group about ten years ago, and is now a nurse who
> lives in the Pacific Northwest. This is NOT a
> recent production by any means. "No compromise"
> indeed. Today, they're working a system job like
> everybody else. Once again, Dave is using the
> work of somebody who he kicked out of the group,
> to promote the same group! How ironic!

This person was kicked out of the group, and like so many others to this day will not call Dave's group a "cult". Like so many others, this person was kicked out for openly disagreeing and arguing with Dave, yet still somehow thinks that they let Dave down. This is the pattern. More people are kicked out of the cult, than leave it voluntarily. Usually they'll think it's THEIR fault, at least at first.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

ImagoDei Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am fairly certain the user that posted what I
> quoted is a disciple of McKay. At the very least,
> they spend majority of their time on Reddit
> spreading David's theology and linking to A Voice
> in the Desert (AVID). AVID, End Time Survivors,
> and The Mark of the Beast are all YouTube channels
> ran by the Jesus Christians. They have one channel
> entitled "A Voice in the Desert Exposed" that has
> several videos attempting to explain past
> controversies and the cult accusation. They also
> have a channel entirely in Spanish with translated
> AVID videos, and I'm sure they have more I have
> yet to find.

I wonder how they are doing trial weeks now, or if they're doing them at all, what with the virus and everything? Do you have any idea about that, ImagoDei?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2020 12:09AM by The Whirlwind.

Sadly ...Whirlwind is correct here....you become desperate to find a reason to remove yourself from the nightmare of the JesusChristians....but you are trapped in the circular reasoning that they represent the only 'true representation' of Christ on earth....thus you are forced to find fault with yourself....

....to justify why you had to leave (....and thus avoid directly confronting David McKay with his bullshit...but instead carry around the 'guilt' with you for the rest of your life that you 'failed' God..... No one has 'failed God'....the only failing someone in this position might be accused of would be not being prepared to call 'out' David McKay as Satan's own 'head-job'.... but anyone who has been through this has otherwise escaped of having to live out the claustrophobia of David McKay's 'wet dream' of spiritual renewal for the planet....

....really that is quite some accomplishment!)

Classic cultic thought patterns, textbook stuff: "Nothing is wrong with the group and/or its leadership, since they are incapable of being wrong; something must be wrong with ME".

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2020 12:30AM by The Whirlwind.