"Satanism?" and "False memories&a
Posted by:
DianeVera
()
Date: April 11, 2004 08:34AM
Hi!
I was very glad to see Rick Ross's pages on
"Satanism?" and "False memories":
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
It's good to see a cult investigator with a well-balanced approach -- promoting awareness about abusive groups, but without going on a witchhunt against unpopular religious minorities.
I'm a theistic Satanist.
The public Satanist subculture has grown and diversified quite a bit over the past several years, thanks to the Internet. It now includes lots of different kinds of people and groups. In my opinion, the diversity is, at least for the most part, a good thing -- and a good counterbalance against authoritarian tendencies on the part of some groups.
I was very glad to see Rick Ross's pages on
"Satanism?" and "False memories":
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.culteducation.com]
It's good to see a cult investigator with a well-balanced approach -- promoting awareness about abusive groups, but without going on a witchhunt against unpopular religious minorities.
I'm a theistic Satanist.
The public Satanist subculture has grown and diversified quite a bit over the past several years, thanks to the Internet. It now includes lots of different kinds of people and groups. In my opinion, the diversity is, at least for the most part, a good thing -- and a good counterbalance against authoritarian tendencies on the part of some groups.
"Satanism?" and "False memories&a
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 11, 2004 09:30AM
especially when you are a practitioner in a tradition that the larger culture stereotypes in a negative way.
When this is the case, people in a dysfunctional lodge, group, or coven, risk being isolated. Unlike being in a particular Roman Catholic parish (say), one cannot just 'transfer' to another parish.
If you are in an esoteric group, and that group turns dysfunctional, you find you must choose between your health and welfare, vs your your entire community. Unlike the ease with which our hypothetical Roman Catholic can pick and choose between parishes, if a person must leave his or her esoteric group, finding another such group, lodge or coven is painful, difficult, and you may have to begin probation all over again. In such circumstances, it is tempting to stay put.
Worst of all, there is almost no one in the larger culture who will understand what you have been through.
So that is why esoteric groups, lodges and covens are especially vulnerable if a leader turns eccentric or harmful, and why all members in these groups have to be mature and be admitted only after a long probationary period. Surgeons need to practice a far higher level of hygiene than most of us, do because the consequences are so much greater.
The author of this paper addresses this issue. She's in a differentn tradition than yours, but her observations may apply.
[pub26.ezboard.com]
'First you have to establish an understanding of the subjective-hypnotic nature of magick with your students and lodge members. I strongly advise against initiating anyone who refuses to accept this concept... I will admit to having made the mistake and finding out that there is no convincing such a person afterward to abandon his objective view. You will only succeed in convincing him that you are a poor magician because you are unable to make the floor burst open and spill forth the legions of Tartarus in cinemascope and stereophonic sound.
'In this case rely on a good preliminary screening test rather than informal questioning. In cocktail party chatter such a person my seem sophisticated, mentioning Jung and Crowley glibly, but then turn out to be a semi-literate barbarian in lodge. Be warned!
'If you are fully honest about the hypnotic nature of magick, you cannot avoid ethical considerations...The most pointed example of this one-sided Svengalism, was a student of mine who absolutely refused to enter a trance state himself, but was most eager to use our dark mirror Goetia technique to beguile others (especially young women). In 1972 he left the O.T.A., and went on to establish a reputation as a sorcerer-at-large. Since that time several of his students have found their way back to the original fount of his knowledge. '
Someone once wrote to us asking in concern about (Ordo Templie Orientis) OTO, because he or she was worried about a loved one, and wanted to know if OTO was, itself, a cult.
All we could do was reply that each OTO lodge must be assessed individually.
Lodges are as different as families.
When this is the case, people in a dysfunctional lodge, group, or coven, risk being isolated. Unlike being in a particular Roman Catholic parish (say), one cannot just 'transfer' to another parish.
If you are in an esoteric group, and that group turns dysfunctional, you find you must choose between your health and welfare, vs your your entire community. Unlike the ease with which our hypothetical Roman Catholic can pick and choose between parishes, if a person must leave his or her esoteric group, finding another such group, lodge or coven is painful, difficult, and you may have to begin probation all over again. In such circumstances, it is tempting to stay put.
Worst of all, there is almost no one in the larger culture who will understand what you have been through.
So that is why esoteric groups, lodges and covens are especially vulnerable if a leader turns eccentric or harmful, and why all members in these groups have to be mature and be admitted only after a long probationary period. Surgeons need to practice a far higher level of hygiene than most of us, do because the consequences are so much greater.
The author of this paper addresses this issue. She's in a differentn tradition than yours, but her observations may apply.
[pub26.ezboard.com]
'First you have to establish an understanding of the subjective-hypnotic nature of magick with your students and lodge members. I strongly advise against initiating anyone who refuses to accept this concept... I will admit to having made the mistake and finding out that there is no convincing such a person afterward to abandon his objective view. You will only succeed in convincing him that you are a poor magician because you are unable to make the floor burst open and spill forth the legions of Tartarus in cinemascope and stereophonic sound.
'In this case rely on a good preliminary screening test rather than informal questioning. In cocktail party chatter such a person my seem sophisticated, mentioning Jung and Crowley glibly, but then turn out to be a semi-literate barbarian in lodge. Be warned!
'If you are fully honest about the hypnotic nature of magick, you cannot avoid ethical considerations...The most pointed example of this one-sided Svengalism, was a student of mine who absolutely refused to enter a trance state himself, but was most eager to use our dark mirror Goetia technique to beguile others (especially young women). In 1972 he left the O.T.A., and went on to establish a reputation as a sorcerer-at-large. Since that time several of his students have found their way back to the original fount of his knowledge. '
Someone once wrote to us asking in concern about (Ordo Templie Orientis) OTO, because he or she was worried about a loved one, and wanted to know if OTO was, itself, a cult.
All we could do was reply that each OTO lodge must be assessed individually.
Lodges are as different as families.
"Satanism?" and "False memories&a
Posted by:
DianeVera
()
Date: April 12, 2004 09:18AM
corboy wrote:
Indeed. For this and other reasons, people of very small and unpopular religious minorities are easy pickings for unscrupulous would-be leaders. I call this problem the underground sleaze factor.
It is my impression that the Pagan scene had a big problem with this sort of thing 30 years ago, but has now gotten big enough that is now much less of a problem than it was before. In many places, Pagan groups are now pretty easy to find.
The Satanist scene is still struggling with it. We're still much smaller than the Pagan scene. But what does help us a lot is the advent of the Internet. Even if we are isolated on an in-person level, we can still find lots of different kinds of Satanists on the Internet. So, thanks to the Internet, it IS possible to find people to talk to, wherever we are. It's not as good as meeting people in person, but it's certainly a lot better than nothing.
Quote
If you are in an esoteric group, and that group turns dysfunctional, you find you must choose between your health and welfare, vs your your entire community. Unlike the ease with which our hypothetical Roman Catholic can pick and choose between parishes, if a person must leave his or her esoteric group, finding another such group, lodge or coven is painful, difficult, and you may have to begin probation all over again. In such circumstances, it is tempting to stay put.
Indeed. For this and other reasons, people of very small and unpopular religious minorities are easy pickings for unscrupulous would-be leaders. I call this problem the underground sleaze factor.
It is my impression that the Pagan scene had a big problem with this sort of thing 30 years ago, but has now gotten big enough that is now much less of a problem than it was before. In many places, Pagan groups are now pretty easy to find.
The Satanist scene is still struggling with it. We're still much smaller than the Pagan scene. But what does help us a lot is the advent of the Internet. Even if we are isolated on an in-person level, we can still find lots of different kinds of Satanists on the Internet. So, thanks to the Internet, it IS possible to find people to talk to, wherever we are. It's not as good as meeting people in person, but it's certainly a lot better than nothing.
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