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MacReady
New article from the ABC including audio interview:
[www.abc.net.au]

Interesting to note that whenever the interviewer asks Serge about some of the more bizarre elements of UM cosmology, he simple points the finger at other unusual spiritual beliefs to justify it. He also avoids a straight answer on the Leonardo da Vinci question.

After listening to the interview a second time i noticed something that AGAIN damages your integrity. See while you can spin your stories and responses to reporters who arnt really up with your more in depth theories you can easily skip your away around the topics.

What is noticeable is whenever questioned about the more "spiritual" side of your business you quickly justify yourself by bringing up other convenient natural medical treatments such as Kinesiology etc. What you are doing is trying to neutralise the reporter and listeners to make them feel more comfortable with your treatments.

So let me just fill in those new comers to this forum and any reporters out there. If you dig a little deeper you will find Serge arrogantly tell you that ALL other alternative treatments including massage are not energetically good for you. This includes even mainstream massage. Of course your massage Serge is ok?!?! He will claim that all other treatments further suppress the bad energy.

To this extent you will find his followers, i mean devotees, i mean clients (phew got that right) burn and throw out all other books that even reference alternative medical treatments.

Serge you don't need an hour of the announcers time to explain yourself. Just be honest and you will clear things up for people very quickly.

I also loved in that interview how you also referenced gurus and native indians to dumb down the audience. Well serge, you let a good analogy get in the way of TRUTH. Because if you were honest with the announcer you would have told her that all the gurus and those who claim to be enlightened to be TOTALLY WRONG. Even the Dalai Lama gets a message in your interviews on your website.... you arrogantly declared him wrong too. Which brings me back to your God Complex. What makes you so right and everyone and i literally mean everyone so wrong???

I await your response.

In the interview Serge also suggests that the influence of entities is a reasonable explanation for a PHD student going berzerk. Just speculation, but I think he's refering to James Holmes, the main suspect in the case of the recent massacre at the 'Dark Knight Rises' premiere in the USA. Holmes was studying for a PHD in Neuroscience before suddenly dropping out. If this is actually who Serge is referring to, it's in incredibly poor taste and way beyond the wrong side of barking mad, in my opinion.

Yes he is referring to that. Good tactic to downplay a question about a strange topic by bringing up a tragedy. Seems familiar. You have to hand it Serge, he is masterful at turning the topic away from himself, even avoiding the question about Leonardo da Vinci by turning it into something potentially about the interviewer and getting a laugh. Same technique as used with students.

The story has gone viral on many sites- where comments are allowed, it has inevitably filled with 'students' strangely defending Serge- often by explaining the detractors are nothing but people who are leading loveless lives. Is it not possible to disagree with everything Serge says and to know or love yourself? It appears not. If you disagree with Serge or UM you are not dealing with your own issues, or making the failure of your relationship about that... It doesn't even make sense, but it is a great way of avoiding the (very scary for a non member) topic.

More and More I fear that no one in the group will see through what is going on. The fact is, Serge and his cohorts did not register their goods with TGA, which is a legal responsibility of a company director. Those goods have been on sale for years. That strikes me as lacking integrity. Serge recanted his testimony of being da Vinci re-incarnated, but that has been twisted around as media misrepresentation. Maybe there are other compliance issues that Serge has not dealt with? What happens when they come to the fore? I guess the flock will come out in force and explain it away again as they re-adjust the meaning of the words 'absolute integrity' to fit the reality.

I am sure there is a lot more that can come out, but given that the followers are deliriously happy in their delusions, I wonder why we are even bothering at this stage.

BTW, check the Arcanes. I think you will find Serge does allude to EBM's being responsible for the remission of cancer. While it is not exactly a claim of curing, when listening one can easily get that impression. And that is what it is all about.

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MacReady
In the interview Serge also suggests that the influence of entities is a reasonable explanation for a PHD student going berzerk. Just speculation, but I think he's refering to James Holmes, the main suspect in the case of the recent massacre at the 'Dark Knight Rises' premiere in the USA. Holmes was studying for a PHD in Neuroscience before suddenly dropping out. If this is actually who Serge is referring to, it's in incredibly poor taste and way beyond the wrong side of barking mad, in my opinion.

Yep thats who he was referring too. Totally insensitive and again proves what people are saying about him... GOD COMPLEX!!!

Serge was suggesting he knows why the guy committed such terrible things. The reporter should have let you explain that serge so you could have told her that he went mad for something he did in a past life.

Hi Concerned. I feel your frustration.

Hopefully we have stopped other innocent people get conned by this charlatan. I am giving up on those involved. If the stuff that has come out won't make them see sense then nothing will.

I am confident we have helped others!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 04:23PM by frodobaggins.

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frodobaggins
Hi Concerned. I feel your frustration.

Hopefully we have stopped other innocent people get conned by this charlatan. I am giving up on those involved. If the stuff that has come out won't make them see sense then nothing will.

I am confident we have helped others!

Several months ago in absolute desperation to keep my beautiful family together and to help my husband see some sense, I found this wonderful site. Not only did I find honest information, which made sense and shone a light for my husband to start the process of 'seeing' just how much he had been conned by Serge Benhayon, his family and Universal Medicine, I also found some of the most loving caring people I have never met.

What binds us all together isn't the sight of watching our loved ones fade away and change from the loving people they once were to the drones they have become, it is the honest desire to try and help as many people who would listen to just think, before they hand over their life to yet another great orator. I applaude you Serge, you will undoubtly go down for having the 'gift of the gab'.

With time I then realized that I had a moral duty to tell my story, because some people need to hear that Um cannot 'cure' you, their toxic ways can however contribute to a scared, frightened way of being. Because I stood up for something I believed in, I have been berated by UM devotees who believe they are "better than me because they are..doing the work". Their words have been very unloving, unkind and quite heartless.

Frodo there comes a time when we need to start really looking after ourselves, only people with open minds will want to hear BOTH sides of any story, closed minds and hearts will not listen. Those people who have handed their lives over to Serge have made a free choice, it's a bit like people 'saying' they aren't addicted to drugs well anything for that matter, they say they can stop at any time but never do.

I too hope that my story and my time here on the site has given anyone with an essence of doubt some honest information to think about, for anyone being introduced to UM by a work collegue or friend, think twice UMers are always trying to increase the flock, it makes them feel like they are the sane ones...sorry you have some major dependency problems. Not one person on this site stands to gain anything except to have the people they love so dearly back. However the voices now raised in defence of Serge after the call to arms via emails on Sunday have a lot to lose if Serge and UM is proved to be the hoax we know it is, they have to explain to a lot of peole how it was they became so gullible. A 96 year old German woman asked me today how could "so many people have been taken in by a house painter?" I guess if Hitler could do it then a minor tennis coach could also do it.

Hopefully during the next few months more and more will be revealed about the ingenious Serge and by all accounts he looks to be in some big trouble. More and more exUMers will be telling their stories, hopefully that equates to more and more people becoming critical thinkers once again.

Frodo I believe we have helped hundreds if not each other and that is something to be very proud of!

Treefern, you are an amazing person, thank you for your continued posts. You are an inspiration and I know you have helped many people.

While Serge & UM have gone in to full PR mode - blogs of support, radio interviews and I am sure a whole host of other things planned, it's worth remembering this quote from the Buddha:

"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."

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treefern

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frodobaggins
Hi Concerned. I feel your frustration.

Hopefully we have stopped other innocent people get conned by this charlatan. I am giving up on those involved. If the stuff that has come out won't make them see sense then nothing will.

I am confident we have helped others!

Several months ago in absolute desperation to keep my beautiful family together and to help my husband see some sense, I found this wonderful site. Not only did I find honest information, which made sense and shone a light for my husband to start the process of 'seeing' just how much he had been conned by Serge Benhayon, his family and Universal Medicine, I also found some of the most loving caring people I have never met.

What binds us all together isn't the sight of watching our loved ones fade away and change from the loving people they once were to the drones they have become, it is the honest desire to try and help as many people who would listen to just think, before they hand over their life to yet another great orator. I applaude you Serge, you will undoubtly go down for having the 'gift of the gab'.

With time I then realized that I had a moral duty to tell my story, because some people need to hear that Um cannot 'cure' you, their toxic ways can however contribute to a scared, frightened way of being. Because I stood up for something I believed in, I have been berated by UM devotees who believe they are "better than me because they are..doing the work". Their words have been very unloving, unkind and quite heartless.

Frodo there comes a time when we need to start really looking after ourselves, only people with open minds will want to hear BOTH sides of any story, closed minds and hearts will not listen. Those people who have handed their lives over to Serge have made a free choice, it's a bit like people 'saying' they aren't addicted to drugs well anything for that matter, they say they can stop at any time but never do.

I too hope that my story and my time here on the site has given anyone with an essence of doubt some honest information to think about, for anyone being introduced to UM by a work collegue or friend, think twice UMers are always trying to increase the flock, it makes them feel like they are the sane ones...sorry you have some major dependency problems. Not one person on this site stands to gain anything except to have the people they love so dearly back. However the voices now raised in defence of Serge after the call to arms via emails on Sunday have a lot to lose if Serge and UM is proved to be the hoax we know it is, they have to explain to a lot of peole how it was they became so gullible. A 96 year old German woman asked me today how could "so many people have been taken in by a house painter?" I guess if Hitler could do it then a minor tennis coach could also do it.

Hopefully during the next few months more and more will be revealed about the ingenious Serge and by all accounts he looks to be in some big trouble. More and more exUMers will be telling their stories, hopefully that equates to more and more people becoming critical thinkers once again.

Frodo I believe we have helped hundreds if not each other and that is something to be very proud of!

Advice to journalists and interested citizens:

Read Len Oakes' book Prophetic Charisma. Its on Google books. If you are a journalist or in another profession where you are likely to deal with various leaders of sects, purchasing a copy would be a worthy investment.

Bookfinder.com listings for Prophetic Charisma.

[www.bookfinder.com]
(Refresh page to keep search results current)

[books.google.com]

One of the correspondants here wrote:

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You have to hand it Serge, he is masterful at turning the topic away from himself, even avoiding the question about Leonardo da Vinci by turning it into something potentially about the interviewer and getting a laugh. Same technique as used with students.

Oakes uses the term "metacommunication."

By using the term, 'metacommunication', Dr. Oakes means commenting about the questioner's manner of saying something, rather than responding to what the questioner is asking.

Because, if you a journalist, medical investigator or attorney are sidetracked by someone using this strategy, sidetracked from a valid line of questioning into a discussion of meaning, or a discussion of your own mannerisms (and you may not have evinced any mannerisms--the operator may merely pretend this so as to create an opening to wind you up) once this sidetracking is allowed, the operator has **stuck the knife into the Vegemite jar your personal insecurities**--and then can spread you on toast or a biscuit then and eat you for a snack--metaphorically speaking.

All your excellent questions have been disarmed.

Oakes describes how charismatic leaders learned specific ways to throw people off balance if put in tight corners--turning attention away from themselves and onto the person daring to question then.


on page 90 of Prophetic Charisma Dr Oakes describes a situation:

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A stunning example occurred during this study when Free-Love Farley (Oakes pseudonym for one such leader) demolished a building inspector who had visited unexpectedly and demanded to examine some recent construction.

It was clear that Farley did not know the various fine points of the regulations that governed such inspections, and also that he had something to hide, but by drawing the inspector out and by focusing on (the inspectors) paralinguistic performances, he soon had the man on the defensive.

Eventually Farley persuaded the official to return to his office to re-check some detail, assuring him that when this had been done, the inspection could proceed. Presumably by then the issue in question would have been taken care of. (Oakes, Prophetic Charisma 1997 , page 90

Earlier, Oakes describes the method used.

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`A common manipulative strategy used by the leaders in this study was an argumentative style that was calculated to subtly shift the ground of any discussion from whatever matter was being talked about toward some area of an opponent's (or prospective Landmark recruit's--my parenthesis) personal insecurity.
In this technique, the leader observed the process of an opponent's conversation and identified some point of hesitency or uncertainty.

(Corboy--anyone who is a nice person, and not a psychopath is going to have areas of hesitation and uncertaintly)

This was not always a flaw of logic or an error of fact; the conversation may have been on some topic about which the leader (knew little and would ahve been unable to detect such a mistake.

" Rather, it was more likely to be some personal unsureness on the part of the opponent that the leaders/recruiter's exquisite social perception targeted. In some way, often by metacommenting, the meaning of whatever insecurity involved was exposed."

Typically what was said was an observation that the opponent seemed "a bit steamed up about this" or was "finding it hard to say what all this is about."

In this way, the opponent was invited, sympathetically and seducatively to expand upon the very point of weakness. Or the leader(recruiter) claimed not to understand what was meant at a particular point, perhaps even saying the opponent was not making sense. This usually led to a further exposure (confessional of personal weakness or perplexity-my note) until the opponent stumbled over his words and began to look uncomfortable. At this point, a well timed, dismissive glance from the leader was all that was needed to intimidate...'

(Or turning to the audience and raising a laugh-Corboy)

(Oakes, Ibid pp 89-90

This slippery metacommunicational strategy puts the attention onto the questioner and scuttles the entire questioning process.

This is analogous to a martial arts move designed to throw an opponent off balance.

This method of massaging somene's insecurities,throwing them off balance as a way to evade unpleasantly acute questioning is not proof of intelligence. It is merely a *skill* but a quite powerful skill that that can be learned by anyone.

The grim temptation is to use this in an exploitative manner. And that is where honor and kindness become paramount.

If one knows how to do this, one has the grave responsiblity of not using it to gain unjust advantage over others. (This too is similar to that of a martial artist. Its no license to be a bully. The greater one's skill at throwing opponents, the greater the responsibility to use that skill only according to clear rules and in a contest--such as a tournament or in a courtroom setting--NO WHERE ELSE)

If someone is well trained and can match how confrontational the operator is the only remedy is to look the person straight on and say, This conversation is not about my mannerisms. This conversation is about your belief system. (Or the that the building wiring doesnt have a perimit)

(Corboy note on selection of names)

If I wanted to tailor this example to the needs of a UK audience, I'd refer to Marmite.

If addressing American readers, I'd refer to peanut butter.

Vegemite is the snack and fortifier of Australia.

This, friends, is how metaphor is used to accelerate a sense of rapport with an audience.

Unlike advertising experts, or charismatic leaders, we here on Rick Ross's forum want to show how the mechanisms of these techniques work--so you, the readers can walk away informed and empowered.)

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frodobaggins

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Nofooliam
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corboy
Extraordinary claims require extra ordinary proof.

Last July (2011) Serge stood in front of his Friday night meetings followers (200 at least) and animatedly predicted that Sydney would be hit by a freak tornado in the coming November, and that specifically Kirribilly would be hit.
Nothing ever happened of course.
No-one IMHO can predict the future, and to try to do so is an ego-centric act which blasts credibiity out of the water.

Other than that, I find Serge entertaining, especially when he asks for a standing ovation at the end of his lecture because, he justifies, we are actually clapping furiously for ourselves, and not for him. He, of course is elevated above all need for praise and adoration. It's all good fun.

This was posted way back on page 11 of this forum. This is the kind of stuff i am looking for. If anyone is reading this forum who has not yet contributed please PM me or post on the forum what you have heard. I need specifics please

Serge predicts the discovery by the scientific/medical community of the 'Xanthalamus gland' in the human brain by the years 2043 to 2047, if not sooner. According to Serge, the Xanthalamus gland exists at two points in the brain at 27 degree angles from the Hypothalus gland. Serge claims that:

"This can be called the true gland of wisdom. It is here that the body begins to be governed by soulful intention. The soulful person arrives at a point where clairvoyance and astrology no longer bear any energetic connection. Psycho- telemetry between the soul and the body is now possible through the 'inner eye' and to the nervous system, mastered by the Xanthalamus gland"

He goes on to cite Mozart and Einstein as two examples of people who functioned with an active Xanthalamus gland.

So even though such intellect, knowledge retention and talent is generally derided elsewhere by Serge as being impulsed by the 'pranic lower-mind' when it comes to predicting the imminent discovery of a yet to be understood part of the human brain, Serge assures us that its function will help increase just such intellectual capacity.

He also claims that schizophrenia, psychosis and bi-polar disorders are the result of a malfunctioning Xanthalamus gland. Despite the unlikelihood that Serge is the sole heir to knowledge decades ahead of the medical/scientific establishment, I suppose that makes more sense than people running amok because they're possessed by astral entities sent by the Lords of Form.

Herbert what a true gentleman you are, thank you.
I really love your beautiful quote. One of the maxims I live my life by is a quote from Edmund Burke;

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Every day something pops into my head that I have heard Serge say, I once heard him say 'that we are responsible for ourselves only'.
Serge a question or to any one of your sycophants,
How can you start up a multi-million dollar business, with Doctors, Dentists and Lawyers and NOT know you had to - register Herbal Supplements?
How does this now become someone elses problem because " nobody told you"?
For all the questioners and there are now many, many, keep an eye on this space it would appear that there are numerous things Serge Benhayon and Universal Medicine didn't KNOW about, but gladly got paid millions to do.

I guess the All Knowing Serge was asleep on the job those days.