From recent EDG notes at the same event as above:

"Pranically. Uses relationships for only personal gain. Can make you feel less without
you knowing it. See people as objects to be used in their life. Very cunning at
breaking relationships, particularly if they see one that is working"

Who has these thoughts? Who knows people like this? I have found in my life, albeit as a level 1 or 2 initiate or worse, that people can only conceive of these things when it is something they know because it is rattling around their heads.

That is why the students cannot conceive that there is something just not right with their 'Bringer of Light" because they themselves cannot imagine that such self-aggrandizement is possible for it has never entered their minds; therefore it must be true.

I just always get the impression that most things that the master says are not about the people he accuses but someone much closer to him. Very close indeed.

Hi All,

Please read the following posted by a UM follower Rod Harvey, Gold Coast, Australia on the Truth About Universal Medicine blog.

My summary is Rod to put it kindly you are a big fool and very lost in the fake world of UM, what you have written here where women are in today’s society I do not see this and many others would not also. I hope you are not speaking for the majority of males out there in the world because your view how women are treated is completely wrong and I find your comments below actually very disrespectful to all women, advertisers’ ,religions and big business.

Let’s first make some comments about your statement:

1. advertising agencies still continue to portray women as sluts to sell products - how wrong are you to imply this for all women who make a living doing advertisements and to say that companies portray the women as this.

2. the major religions are still patriarchal and treat women as second class citizens – again not true I attend church and women at my church are treated with the up most respect and not as second class citizens.

3. the ‘old boys’ clubs’ still exist in the majority of boardrooms – today more women sit on board rooms and in senior positions in large business e.g Our Prime Minister

4. we see sly inferences and biased reporting about women in media articles (as well as the more obvious page 3 girls to perve on) – please show me some Rod no different to what is reported on males ….and page three girls if it offends you don’t look, these women have chosen to do this.

5. and we hear snide remarks about women from politicians, workmates and talk-back jocks – and trust me Rod I work with allot of women and they are no different to the men and in recent times I have seen female commentators make snide remarks about men.

6. Observe how men speak to women – as stated the women in my workplace have the upmost respect by the male workforce and the respect is reciprocal, the men do not talk rudely or disrespectful to the females.

7. the behaviour of many young men when they are with their girlfriends in a group of people – how many have you seen Rod a few drunk teenagers on the Gold Coast well let me tell you I have seen allot of young men with their girlfriends and from my observations most are in LOVE and treat their partners well.

8. and the accepted norm of how boys treat girls at primary and secondary schools – now you are taking Serges words here and referring to what he and Natalie have describe what young teenage girls are doing …you are wrong Rod….though this may go on in some cases you are implying this is the case everywhere.


9. For many, if not most, respect has flown out the window – Rod where do you hang out to make this assumption every week I go shopping / sporting games / camping trips / holidays and I see the majority of men treating women well and very loving.

10. A boob job will give me more self-confidence.” – if a women chooses to have this performed on herself what business is it of yours to judge her on this ….this is her decision to make and live with.

11. I look hot in this dress – good on the women if they feel hot in what they are wearing ….good on them.

12. “Whenever he does jobs around the house he wants sex later.” – again Rod this sounds like Serge talking in one of his meetings …where the hell do you get this from ….i do plenty of work around the house and I can assure you at no time do I expect any sex from my wife for doing the work.

13. “I just wish he would hug me without wanting sex.” – Again Rod I think you are repeating Serge here …..again not the case I regularly give my wife a hug throughout the day and night with no expectation.

Rod get into the real world and all the women UM followers who have commented on your post stop talking about abusive men, the world you are all living in is a big illusion made up by Serge…… not all men are abusive.

Most men are not abusive just ask other females outside the UM world - men are very caring / loving / respectful not the illusion that Serge has painted us all as.

Part of Rod statement from the blog:

All around us the signals are obvious: advertising agencies still continue to portray women as sluts to sell products; the major religions are still patriarchal and treat women as second class citizens; the ‘old boys’ clubs’ still exist in the majority of boardrooms; we see sly inferences and biased reporting about women in media articles (as well as the more obvious page 3 girls to perve on) and we hear snide remarks about women from politicians, workmates and talk-back jocks.
We don’t have to dig deep to sense the tone of what is going on. Observe how men speak to women; the behaviour of many young men when they are with their girlfriends in a group of people; and the accepted norm of how boys treat girls at primary and secondary schools. For many, if not most, respect has flown out the window.
Yet many women are inadvertently not helping the situation.
After all, have you ever heard a woman make comments similar to these?
“Wait ‘til your father comes home.”
“Shhh… your father is sleeping in.”
“Oh he gets angry, but he’s under so much stress.”
“My husband’s a solicitor.”
“A boob job will give me more self-confidence.”
“I look hot in this dress.”
“Every relationship has its problems.”
“It’s not worth the hassle to bring it up – who needs the aggro.”
“I’m too old to find someone else.”
“The magic has gone.”
“Whenever he does jobs around the house he wants sex later.”
“I just wish he would hug me without wanting sex.”
Many women have given their power away and men take advantage. Then when the woman says ‘enough is enough’, men receive mixed messages and get confused. We need open and honest communication.

Mr Harvey certainly does sound an awful lot like Serge. I'll bet he thinks his words carry more weight because he's one of the few men regurgitating this crap.

Hi John,

I read that too. The ultimate irony is that Rod slavishly follows Serge Benhayon, an individual who presides over a paternalistic cult in which he is the patriarchal figurehead:

[wordsonsergebenhayon.blogspot.com.au]

Furthermore, Serge's conduct when it comes to women is questionable in the extreme. Besides the fact that he apparently cheated on his first wife repeatedly, and began grooming his current wife when she was barely a teenager, there are numerous reports of highly inappropriate conduct going on with female clients in his clinic. This account from Venus Darkly is actually the least troubling one I have heard:

[universalmedicineaccountability.blogspot.com.au]

Quote
COncerned Partner
From recent EDG notes at the same event as above:

"Pranically. Uses relationships for only personal gain. Can make you feel less without
you knowing it. See people as objects to be used in their life. Very cunning at
breaking relationships, particularly if they see one that is working"

Who has these thoughts? Who knows people like this? I have found in my life, albeit as a level 1 or 2 initiate or worse, that people can only conceive of these things when it is something they know because it is rattling around their heads.

That is why the students cannot conceive that there is something just not right with their 'Bringer of Light" because they themselves cannot imagine that such self-aggrandizement is possible for it has never entered their minds; therefore it must be true.

I just always get the impression that most things that the master says are not about the people he accuses but someone much closer to him. Very close indeed.

Hi CP,

The highlighted EDG notes you've quoted there apply to Serge precisely.

Quote
MacReady
Hi John,

I read that too. The ultimate irony is that Rod slavishly follows Serge Benhayon, an individual who presides over a paternalistic cult in which he is the patriarchal figurehead:

[wordsonsergebenhayon.blogspot.com.au]

Furthermore, Serge's conduct when it comes to women is questionable in the extreme. Besides the fact that he apparently cheated on his first wife repeatedly, and began grooming his current wife when she was barely a teenager, there are numerous reports of highly inappropriate conduct going on with female clients in his clinic. This account from Venus Darkly is actually the least troubling one I have heard:

[universalmedicineaccountability.blogspot.com.au]

Universal Medicine is 100% a paternalistic and misogynist cult. That is the irony that so many women are under it's influence.

This is not just my opinion. I have been speaking with an expert psychiatrist who has been dealing with cult leaders and their members for 40 years and he has been studying Serge's methodology and background.

The focus on women is not actually to support them, but to take control of them in to enforce Serge's puritanical ideals upon them. He wants to them to be without partners and preferably without sex and intimacy.

That is why many remain single or become so, and all of them soon speak of having no sexual urges.

He behaves at first like that interloper we all knew when we were first dating that whispers sweet things in a girls ears, sympathizing with the relationship issue she inevitably has with her boyfriend, offering an alternative view first of the relationship and then of themselves, and soon replaces them as the primary interest.

His 'occult-doctrine' is just this. If you can bear to read it, or listen to his recordings this sub-text is obvious. It has something to do with his own pathology. His bleating about "rape, murder, and incest" are actually psychological markers. The 'hidden' ( occult) meaning refers to him and the contents of his psyche, not some fictional ancient wisdom.

The 'overt doctrine' as such, is just a confusional tangle of contradictory ideas meant to unhinge peoples sense of reality, which is why they end up absorbing his themes and words and in a moral vacuum. " What is wrong, the fact of the perception? If the perception is right then the fact is wrong!" means nothing, but it does have the effect of unhinging a person's base ability to test reality for themselves. And they subject themselves to this time after time and at home reading his books and listening to audio's.

Why men like Rod Harvey also accept these ideas is interesting and probably a study all of it's own. No doubt there is some resonance at work. Like Serge it is masked behind an unusual concern for woman's 'rights'. Notice how no such balanced concern for men exists. Recently in the UK a study showed that nearly 50% of domestic violence is perpetrated by woman. There was an outrage at the idea. The reason it is not obvious is because men do not like to be seen as victims and they will also suffer blows more readily. I am sure if the study were conducted here, it would turn up a similar result. However as there is a stereotype that men are the abusers, like in the UK, it won't go down too well. That is the current paradigm and it is one that Serge uses to his advantage in his manipulation of women; by doing exactly as the not too bright Rod Harvey has done on that post, whipping them up into a frenzy of indignation. It is with that energy that they can start to characterize all men, even the one that they love, as an abuser- and it is the exact reason why ( and in part because of their reduced capacity for critical though under the UM thought-reform regime) that they all treat criticism as though fists of men were rainining down upon them in endless blows. That is the image they have been sold, with Serge as the protector.

I am more than certain that no man associated with a UM member has been beating them up or emotionally abusing them, as is the charge. I understand ALL of them have been pissed off and upset that they can't get a sensible word out of their partner or family members when they tried to speak about UM and Serge, and that it escalates when the member uses their " remain in their heart' technique to avoid the 'emotional attack' and 'entities' coming at them from the LOF's controlled partner. The mindless dross that Rod Harvery goes on about is the sort of irrelevant generalised shit that stops one on one communication. I think we have all experienced trying to speak to our partners and are met with 'Serge-speak" and illustrations of our issues by recounting such 'facts' as Rod has done in post. You can see that is why we become Stereo-typed and why they keep it up.

As you point out MacReady, Serge has some questionable attitudes to woman and there is a known history before the cult of being that interloper. He is now doing it in a wholesale fashion. What he demands of his followers is their attention, their adulation ( " A person with that number, me- is the bringer of light, the true teacher") and for them to believe his overblown sense of himself; which strangely they do. Interestingly, he presents them over and over with his true self ( "a person under the pranic influe of that number actually breaks up relationships and is very manipulative for their own gain") in a game of cat and mouse- I think with a snide grin " look how smart I am, got you"

I think Rod's post is a really good illustration of how the minds of UM students work. It really seems like they are living in a very isolated and isolating world where they just don't seem to have the interactions with society at large that would counter his beliefs. Like you JL, I just don't find what he says to be true. I think if we were living in the 70's then his post would have more relevance. But we are not, we're in 2012. Of course our society is far from perfect and cases of misogyny and gender bias exist, but there are now routes, through laws, to challenge when incidents do occur. We, as a society are getting better at this, and we will continue to do so.

It also seems that the UM blogs are getting more and fantastical and offensive. I am not going quote them, they are easy to find online should you choose to, but the rhetoric is common throughout. Serge is "a man of integrity", everyone who questions him or UM is "an abuser", and the media is sensationalist and misrepresentative. Really?

We are lucky enough to live in a democracy. And while do, we have a right to free speech. If I don't agree with Universal Medicine it's my right to say so. It's my right to say so as often as I like and where ever I like. If that doesn't agree with your position on UM, that's fine with me. I respect your right to hold that opinion. But to accuse people of abuse (which is one of those words that seems to get misused by UM over and over again) because they may disagree with you and passionately defend their position, is truly appalling.

This forum has always allowed anyone to post, the UM blogs don't offer the same equal right. I've tried many times to ask questions in a polite and respectful way. Many others have too. Not a single one of those posts has ever appeared online. Is that freedom of speech?

And as far as the media goes, UM has time and time again said they have recordings of the interviews that have been granted. On A Current Affair (I think it was that show) you can even see their cameras filming the filming. David Leser makes reference to it in the GW article too. So if the media is as manipulative as UM suggests, why not release all this footage/audio? Why not allow people to see just how much the media is manipulating Serge's words. It's very easy to upload anything on to YouTube. I suspect they won't do this. It's far easier to whip up people in to believing that they are a victim of a malicious press, and then try and start a campaign about media responsibility in general to smoke-screen the whole thing. Same as occurred with early media reports on UM. Rather than answer questions the media raised, or counter what they said with cohesive arguments, UM tried to spin the whole thing as being abusive to women and wrote countless posts to this effect. The abuse of women is a serious issue that concerns us all. To use it as a curtain to hide behind and avoid discusion is underhanded.

This thread has never been about hate. If you have some time and you're new here, or an occasional visitor, read it through. The whole thing . To quote the song "Don't believe the hype", make up your own mind about what's being said here. You'll find that the people posting to indeed come from a place of love and care. It gets passionate and heated at time, and so it should when there is so much at stake.

If you feel like it, post yourself. Whatever side of the fence you're on. You're allowed to do that here...

Quote
MacReady

Quote
COncerned Partner
From recent EDG notes at the same event as above:

"Pranically. Uses relationships for only personal gain. Can make you feel less without
you knowing it. See people as objects to be used in their life. Very cunning at
breaking relationships, particularly if they see one that is working"

Who has these thoughts? Who knows people like this? I have found in my life, albeit as a level 1 or 2 initiate or worse, that people can only conceive of these things when it is something they know because it is rattling around their heads.

That is why the students cannot conceive that there is something just not right with their 'Bringer of Light" because they themselves cannot imagine that such self-aggrandizement is possible for it has never entered their minds; therefore it must be true.

I just always get the impression that most things that the master says are not about the people he accuses but someone much closer to him. Very close indeed.

Hi CP,

The highlighted EDG notes you've quoted there apply to Serge precisely.

Yes they do. They are the alter-ego of the bringer of light. Interesting isn't it.

One more thing on Rod's !STUPID! carry on-

“Whenever he does jobs around the house he wants sex later.”
“I just wish he would hug me without wanting sex.”
Many women have given their power away and men take advantage. Then when the woman says ‘enough is enough’, men receive mixed messages and get confused. We need open and honest communication.

which can't go without comment. Besides being a regurg of Serge, and just about what I was hearing, it is NOT AT ALL TRUE.
Here again is a vilification of men, and assumptions about men that are just plain wrong.
I saw my partner do this too. She suddenly started taking my affection as me 'hitting on her'
It never had been in the past, why would it be now?
Sorry ladies, (that includes you Rod) Men do not want to have sex with you constantly. You might be attractive, but we're not porn stars.
Like you, we want intimacy and love.
The awful story that Serge spouts unashamedly that "Men just want sex" ( I am such a dickhead) is absolutely untrue.
Men want love and respect just like you do.
This BS that Serge goes on with, and Rod repeats because he doesnt have his own brain, is the very thing that gets in the way of the fundamental intimacy of partnerships.
By accusing me and creating suspicions, spontaneity is removed and the man is made to look dirty for desiring intimacy with his partner. That is seriously messed up shit and no one, especially Serge, should be messing around in that area of peoples lives. That he does is seriously suspicious.
And lastly, there is nothing wrong with people having sex or making love. It is a normal human function. If there is attraction and consent, then let it be.
And, because you haven't once mentioned it, there are many times that woman hit on their partners when they are not in the mood. What is the rule then oh master of stupidity and stereotyping??
No one should enforce their rules on it or try to interfere with peoples attraction to each other. ( so you know, Serge has very strict rules about sex. No fellatio, anal or breast groping permitted)
Rod you deserve Serge. Please go away together somewhere and leave normal people alone. At least spare the world and don't come on blogs anywhere.

Not meaning to obsess over such details, but if oral and anal sex for example are forbidden by Serge as 'pranic', loveless, pornographic or however he categorizes them (and I'm not suggesting these sexual acts are necessarily for everyone), how are gay men supposed to express their sexual attraction to each other during lovemaking? I know for a fact that there are some homosexual men (and women) involved with UM, so it would be curious to hear whether Serge is an equal opportunity Puritan, and if not, why the double standard?

Yup, move over Germaine Greer, SergeProp presents Rod Harvey. My response to his feminist post here: [universalmedicineaccountability.blogspot.com.au]

The quoted post above with his regurgitation of Sergisms is also a nice example of something I wrote about in this thought-reform post [universalmedicineaccountability.blogspot.com.au]

It's an example of 'doctrine over person' where adherence to Sergism is regarded as more important than protecting the health and dignity of human beings - including children. It's also an example of the intellectually atrophying affects of 'loading the language'. Rather than answer any of the questions I've posted about UM's dangerous and offensive activities, Rod and the compulsive propagandists busy themselves with reciting Serge's platitudes, as if repeating them enough will make them true.

From Robert Jay Lifton (bless his cotton socks) talking about the uneasiness that exists within individuals who have been programmed to follow a questionable ideology: This uneasiness may result in a retreat into a rigid orthodoxy in which an individual shouts the ideological jargon all the louder in order to demonstrate his conformity, hide his own dilemma and his despair, and protect himself from the fear and guilt he would feel should he attempt to use words and phrases other than the correct ones.

Keep shouting it, UMers, the questions aren't going away.