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frodobaggins

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MacReady
New article from the ABC including audio interview:
[www.abc.net.au]

Interesting to note that whenever the interviewer asks Serge about some of the more bizarre elements of UM cosmology, he simple points the finger at other unusual spiritual beliefs to justify it. He also avoids a straight answer on the Leonardo da Vinci question.

After listening to the interview a second time i noticed something that AGAIN damages your integrity. See while you can spin your stories and responses to reporters who arnt really up with your more in depth theories you can easily skip your away around the topics.

What is noticeable is whenever questioned about the more "spiritual" side of your business you quickly justify yourself by bringing up other convenient natural medical treatments such as Kinesiology etc. What you are doing is trying to neutralise the reporter and listeners to make them feel more comfortable with your treatments.

So let me just fill in those new comers to this forum and any reporters out there. If you dig a little deeper you will find Serge arrogantly tell you that ALL other alternative treatments including massage are not energetically good for you. This includes even mainstream massage. Of course your massage Serge is ok?!?! He will claim that all other treatments further suppress the bad energy.

To this extent you will find his followers, i mean devotees, i mean clients (phew got that right) burn and throw out all other books that even reference alternative medical treatments.

Serge you don't need an hour of the announcers time to explain yourself. Just be honest and you will clear things up for people very quickly.

I also loved in that interview how you also referenced gurus and native indians to dumb down the audience. Well serge, you let a good analogy get in the way of TRUTH. Because if you were honest with the announcer you would have told her that all the gurus and those who claim to be enlightened to be TOTALLY WRONG. Even the Dalai Lama gets a message in your interviews on your website.... you arrogantly declared him wrong too. Which brings me back to your God Complex. What makes you so right and everyone and i literally mean everyone so wrong???

I await your response.

And still we wait Serge... and still we wait Rebecca...

Anyway, moving on, with regards to the interview quoted above

The following bit was interesting and I won't clean up the language, because I want to demonstrate the bumbling, stumbling way in which Serge actually speaks:

Reporter: “How does a former Tennis Coach turn to live by this philosophy, because that’s what you are isn’t it a former tennis coach?”
Serge Benhayon: “That’s correct but you know millions of people read Eckhart Tolle don’t they? and he was a, he was a, drunkard on a bench who had a revelation and now he’s um you know got a readership of millions of people, the same came to D um Ron ah Donald Walsh who wrote Conversations with God… it’s nothing new, um you’re trying to equate something that doesn’t give me any qualifications”.

No Serge, she isn't trying to equate anything: you don't have any qualifications, and comparing yourself to other nobody's (in your words), who became somebody's that wrote books doesn't change that fact. But let's look at that a little further: you summarise Eckhart Tolle as a nobody drunkard on a bench and make the claim that the reporter is equating the fact that you are a former tennis coach turned philosopher to mean that you don't have any qualifications. Ok, let's look at Eckhart Tolle:

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle
At the age of 19, Tolle moved to England and for three years taught German and Spanish at a London school for language studies. Troubled by "depression, anxiety and fear", he began "searching for answers" in his life.[9] At age 22 or so he decided to pursue this search by studying philosophy, psychology, and literature, and enrolled in the University of London. After graduating he was offered a scholarship to do research at Cambridge University as a postgraduate student and was admitted there in 1977.

Hang on a minute, it sounds like Eckhart Tolle does have qualifications.


Now let's look at Neale Donald Walsch (who you call Donald Walsch - but let's not split hairs):

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neale_Donald_Walsch
Before writing the Conversations With God series, Walsch worked variously as a radio station program director, newspaper managing editor, and in marketing and public relations. In the early 1990s he suffered a series of crushing blows — a fire that destroyed all of his belongings, the break-up of his marriage, and a car accident that left him with a broken neck. Once recovered, but alone and unemployed, he was forced to live in a tent in Jackson Hot Springs, just outside Ashland, Oregon, collecting and recycling aluminium cans in order to eat.

Ok, so for arguments' sake let's accept your description of Neale Donald Welsch as a nobody, his biography seems a bit more impressive than just, now I'm a tennis coach, now I'm Genius incarnate!!! So why have you drawn this comparison with Walsch and yourself?

As usual the opposite of what you are accusing this reporter of is actually true, even in your bumbling, stumbling way, you have spun the original question which was actually aimed at understanding what led to your transition to a healer, but you have somehow managed to spin it into an underdog good prevails over difficulty story, whereby you somehow come out of it in the end have circumvented the need to even have credentials.

The problem with your illogical and falacious ramblings is that at the end of it all, you still don't have qualifications, you don't have a best selling book, and you haven't explained how these ideas magically sprung into your head.

Also, it is interesting to note, that the jury is still out as to whether Eckhart Tolle and his followers satisfy the recommendations of being defined as a cult in their own right: [forum.culteducation.com]

And I also found this very apt comment on that post in reference to a similar type of logic employed by an apologist for Tolle therein:

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vlinden
With all due respect, none of your points matter, nor are they logical. I'm not talking about other phonies, frauds, con-men, fake gurus and soul-snake-oil salesman, who certainly exist and perhaps your examples are accurate. Right now, I'm talking about Serge Benhayon (name changed by knowledge_is_king).

And for now Serge, you have missed the opportunity to explain how exactly these visions came to be inside your head - could it be that if you recounted your previous version that it came to you as a voice on the toilet that people would think you are crazy?

I leave the question for the reader to consider, what motivates a man who says he is just a nobody, to manipulate a conversation in this way, rather than to just be honest and tell the "truth"** that his version of "the way it is" came to him from a disembodied voice from within his own head.

If he is happy to tell that story to the Universal Medicine "students" then why not the general public?

**(truth meaning the original version of events you have given students previously - not that I am saying that it is the real truth by any means)

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MacReady

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frodobaggins

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Nofooliam
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corboy
Extraordinary claims require extra ordinary proof.

Last July (2011) Serge stood in front of his Friday night meetings followers (200 at least) and animatedly predicted that Sydney would be hit by a freak tornado in the coming November, and that specifically Kirribilly would be hit.
Nothing ever happened of course.
No-one IMHO can predict the future, and to try to do so is an ego-centric act which blasts credibiity out of the water.

Other than that, I find Serge entertaining, especially when he asks for a standing ovation at the end of his lecture because, he justifies, we are actually clapping furiously for ourselves, and not for him. He, of course is elevated above all need for praise and adoration. It's all good fun.

This was posted way back on page 11 of this forum. This is the kind of stuff i am looking for. If anyone is reading this forum who has not yet contributed please PM me or post on the forum what you have heard. I need specifics please

Serge predicts the discovery by the scientific/medical community of the 'Xanthalamus gland' in the human brain by the years 2043 to 2047, if not sooner. According to Serge, the Xanthalamus gland exists at two points in the brain at 27 degree angles from the Hypothalus gland. Serge claims that:

"This can be called the true gland of wisdom. It is here that the body begins to be governed by soulful intention. The soulful person arrives at a point where clairvoyance and astrology no longer bear any energetic connection. Psycho- telemetry between the soul and the body is now possible through the 'inner eye' and to the nervous system, mastered by the Xanthalamus gland"

He goes on to cite Mozart and Einstein as two examples of people who functioned with an active Xanthalamus gland.

So even though such intellect, knowledge retention and talent is generally derided elsewhere by Serge as being impulsed by the 'pranic lower-mind' when it comes to predicting the imminent discovery of a yet to be understood part of the human brain, Serge assures us that its function will help increase just such intellectual capacity.

He also claims that schizophrenia, psychosis and bi-polar disorders are the result of a malfunctioning Xanthalamus gland. Despite the unlikelihood that Serge is the sole heir to knowledge decades ahead of the medical/scientific establishment, I suppose that makes more sense than people running amok because they're possessed by astral entities sent by the Lords of Form.

COME OFF IT!?!?!?!?!?! Seriously who actually buys into this CRAP? This is the kind of stuff i am after. Any reporters reading this please ask the Grand Master of BULLSHIT where he is getting this information from? For a man with no medical background he can now predict this kind of insane nonsense. Serge hats off to you.... you have one wild imagination. And if it isnt your imagination... it is fact then please PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps Serge can tell these wonderful people where to look?

[www.abc.net.au]

lol

Hello Everyone, To Serge :you hang your whole belief system on the Einstein quote about 'energy'. Here is another one which you obviously aren't aware of- "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of TRUTH and KNOWLEDGE will be shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods" . Serge I have observed you ,read your stupid books and listened to your ridiculous interviews and my final appraisal of you is that you are one big tennis racket .- Over and out - Eric

Presentation is everything.

All citizens and journalists should, as part of continuing education, learn about this.

In corresponding with someone on a different topic, this person mentioned the Dr Fox effect.

"...the Dr. Fox effect(that presentation is everything even in a academic setting). It's also scary as hell when you think about it's implications. That we all have psychological blind spots that can be activated by a so-called expert spewing a boat load of nonsense in a congruent and enthusiastic manner. "

The Doctor Fox effect

[en.wikipedia.org]

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It was observed that student achievement was higher for higher content-coverage. However, students were observed to rate high content-coverage lectures as better than low-coverage lectures only when both lectures exhibited low expressiveness. When both lectures were highly expressive, no correlation was observed.

This lack of correspondence between content-coverage and ratings under conditions of high expressiveness is known as the Dr. Fox Effect.[3]

In a critique of student evaluations of teaching, professor of law Deborah Merritt summarized the Dr. Fox Effect as it was observed in the first experiments, in which American actor Michael Fox gave a lecture to a group of ten under the guise of "Dr. Myron L. Fox":

"The experimenters created a meaningless lecture on 'Mathematical Game Theory as Applied to Physician Education,' and coached the actor to deliver it 'with an excessive use of double talk, neologisms, non sequiturs, and contradictory statements.'

At the same time, the researchers encouraged the actor to adopt a lively demeanor, convey warmth toward his audience, and intersperse his nonsensical comments with humor. ... The actor fooled not just one, but three separate audiences of professional and graduate students.

**Despite the emptiness of his lecture, fifty-five psychiatrists, psychologists, educators, graduate students, and other professionals produced evaluations of Dr. Fox that were overwhelmingly positive. ... The disturbing feature of the Dr. Fox study, as the experimenters noted, is that Fox’s nonverbal behaviors so completely masked a meaningless, jargon-filled, and confused presentation."**[[/i]4]

Another article on Dr Fox effect

[www.significancemagazine.org]

Footage of the "Dr Fox" lecture

[www.weirdexperiments.com]

Quote Corboy

At the same time, the researchers encouraged the actor to adopt a lively demeanor, convey warmth toward his audience, and intersperse his nonsensical comments with humor. ... The actor fooled not just one, but three separate audiences of professional and graduate students.

**Despite the emptiness of his lecture, fifty-five psychiatrists, psychologists, educators, graduate students, and other professionals produced evaluations of Dr. Fox that were overwhelmingly positive. ... The disturbing feature of the Dr. Fox study, as the experimenters noted, is that Fox’s nonverbal behaviors so completely masked a meaningless, jargon-filled, and confused presentation."**[[/i]4]
[/quote]


Hi Corboy,
good research as always. And for the outside, more critical observer of Serge this is a perfect description of his presentations and talks- Neologisms and non sequitors abound.

Interesting to note the fervor of activity to encourage 'students' to engage in social media and blogging activity in support of Serge. What other organisation would be able to achieve that? Imagine if your well loved dentist was selling his own range of products and it was discovered he didnt have them okayed by the authorities... would he email all his paying patients and encourage them to blog in his defence? and if he did, would they all rush dutifully to describe him as the most wonderful man of integrity ever known ( and a snappy dresser!)? I don't think so.

I 'feel' there is only one type of organisation that may achieve that- and in fact they are showing their hand in doing it. Even yesterday several people commented to me ( that I didn't know) ' have you read all the weird cult people defending their leader!? There's even doctors and lawyers and there all saying the same really weird stuff.....whoa' So keep at it students.

I think the new medical blog is also having the same effect in the wider medical community from what I understand. Good job.

I had a word with a quite well known cult expert recently. He explained that the attention that the group is getting will drive them closer together as part of the allure is the community and the agreed approval of the ideas that they see as absolutes and misunderstood by the wider community. It is the very act of vigorous defence, both personally and on a community scale that betrays the nature of the organisation.

The final defence of course is to cut off communication completely. I guess this will start happening first at a personal level and then, if criticism continues, become a group strategy. However I believe now there is a move to go bigger as a reaction to the attention. Interesting. I guess time will tell.

To all you students- it is not us against you. It is us for you. We know you are wonderful people. That is why we are here commenting. Why are we commenting and why is there so much attention? While there may be some misconceptions and misconstrued facts of late, there is a general consensus from many including peoples voices you have not yet heard, that there are things to be concerned about. We wish you the best.

I agree CP, despite the strategic avoidance of any and all mention of the Serge's many supernatural claims and the general acceptance of them, the slavish comments being made in Serge's defense (at his request) future illustrate that UM is, in fact, a cult.

Note this comment recently posted in Serge's defence on the new pro-UM blog:

[wordsonsergebenhayon.wordpress.com]

"What I have heard Serge talk about is the way he lives and what works for him and from that I have developed my own way of living and things that work for me. It is simply an application of common sense. What he has done is bring to our awareness that we (all of us not just people who attend Universal Medicine presentations) need more love in our lives, that we need to be more self-loving, that we need to care deeply about ourselves and then others, and that society is lacking of nurturing, connection and care for one another. If that makes Universal Medicine a “cult” and Serge Benhayon a “cult leader” then so is every doctor, medically trained person and practitioner or lay person who promotes self care and lifestyles to enhance wellbeing and caring for one another"

There are many reasons why the label 'cult leader' does not apply to doctors and qualified medical practitioners. These qualified professionals, unlike Serge, do not make the following claims:

- To be the re-incarnation of Alice A. Bailey thus the author and sole true heir of her Theosophical New Age writings.

- To also be the re-incarnation of Plato, Pythagiras and Leonardo da Vinci among others.

-To be an ascended master, a member of Bailey's mythical Heirarchy, sent to Earth from Shamballa to help heal humanity and usher in the New Era which allegedly lasts for 2,600 years.

-To be able to put astral entities into clients (reportedly including children) and then remove them.

-That physical human existence on earth was never meant to occur, that our spirits in their arrogance willed themselves into form.

-That only by following his teachings can you evolve back to our intended state of pure soul within the body of God.

-To be able to heal clients long distance, even internationally, merely by having their names and doodies paid for one of his workshops (Sacred Esoteric Hesling level 3).

-To know the true energetic cause of all illness and disease.

-To furthermore know everything about everything in the universe.

-That there are a group of evil spirits called The Fiur Lords of form conspiring to keep humanity from re-connecting with their soulful state and returning to God.

-That H.P. Blavatsky's Aryan root-race theories are actually fact.

-That mermaids existed.

-That he knows where Elvis Presley's re-incarnation lives.

I could continue ad nauseum, but the UM community's strategic avoidance of these claims made by Serge while proclaiming him the purest example of love and integrity in existence is a worrying indication of just how dishonest many of the UM student body are willing to be with themselves in the defense of Mr. Benhayon.


-

Hi MacReady

Its the doctrine that creates a two way filter between their cult-ure and the normal paradigm.

While many, including I, would agree in essence with the idea in that post, we get filtered out because we dont/cant/need to accept outlandish ideas. On the other hand, for reasons known only to the students, that is attractive to them and forms a basis for their ongoing commitment. However, they do know it is indefensible, therefore on a personal level and as a group ( witness their instructions on what to post and what to avoid saying) they avoid speaking about it. The very act of doing this is both a deception and an indication that they know the true status of their belief system. Even Serge is aware of this which is very interesting as many group leaders ( example, AJ MIllar, David Korech, et al) have no issue making messianic proclamations. Maybe it is a business/doctrine balance thing?

The bottom line is however, we are here and they are there because we wont accept those claims on any level. There is no payoff for us to do so. Humans are motivated by emotional pay-offs, so there is some thing in those that do believe, not wrong or bad, but different to our motivations. I am sure if UM was just about healing, self nurturing, alternative therapies, meditation ( as many of us thought it was for a long time) then this blog and all the other attention would not exist and we would all be sitting around happily with the world a better place for it.

Indeed, CP. If UM was just about healing, self nurturing, alternative therapies, meditation, brotherhood, love etc. I wouldn't be here. For the most part, I have no problem with those elements of Serge's teachings and if it stopped there, I might even be one of his defenders. The truth is, however, that it does not even remotely stop there, as has been repeatedly and explicitly demonstrated on this thread and elsewhere.

If Serge wants to convince the world that there's nothing cult-like about UM then he's going to have to radically alter his workshops, delete much of the writings on his website and remove all the audio presentations he has made available to download. He will also have to approve of and hold one more book burning: that being a bonfire large enough to consume all existing copies of his six New Age religious volumes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2012 06:26AM by MacReady.

I guess the point for me is not whether you choose to wear a Burka and believe the far fetched claims of Islam or choose to go to bed at 9pm and believe the wild claims of Universal Medicine. It would be difficult to maintain a relationship if your partner came home one night dressed in a Burka, but that would be her choice. I can either accept that or move on

The fact is, we are seeing a great volume testimonial evidence from the students of UM whose exposure to 'the work' has had a profound Positive effect on themselves their friends, partners,and family. We cant hold them to criminal account any more than a million crazy Mormons who might also testify that their values are helping them. (Though we may try) People have the right to make their own choices. We should respect that.

No laws are being broken. No civil crimes being committed. Other than an easily correctable mistake in registering food supplements which will be sorted one way or another.

So far it seems if we are to make count of the people that have come forward (accurate or not) we have a landslide in favor of the merits of UM.

The call has gone out and we have the results.