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knowledge_is_king
I think Rebecca is busy at the moment, maybe she is busy adding a link to this forum page to her Universal Medicine Facebook page. Where are you Rebecca? I hope it isn't option b or c...

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knowledge_is_king
Rebecca,

...text removed by knowledge_is_king as not relevant to this post...

Let's assume that we can take you at face value and that we can believe you when uou say that you and UM and Serge and his family have nothing to hide. That's awesome! Then why don't you post a link to this forum on the Universal Medicine Facebook page? I mean if you don't have anything to hide this is a great opportunity for you to answer our concerns and by displaying it on your page it keeps you transparent. Because really all we are discussing are things any rational adult should be asking themselves when they 'join' (your word) a group like this.

So I guess the question is:
Do you:
a) stay on here and part take in an open debate, risk increasing search traffic to this site, and post up a link to this forum thread on your UM Facebook page, and achieve the transparency gains that clear a lot of the doubts about UM?
b) do you turn down the challenge and leave people wondering what you and by extension what UM have to hide?
or
c) do you come up with an excuse to leave for another reason, or attack my reasoning, or ignore me but refuse nonetheless?




I for one really hope you stick around, as I would love to hear your thoughts on some of the things we've been discussing of late. Shall we start with tampons or eating disorders I'll let you choose.

KIK I think maybe we have ALL been waiting to hear rebeccas reply..........

Hi All
I think Rebecca has been advised by Serge to avoid the energy of this forum and that involvement will only validate our arguments. Which is a pity.

If Rebecca happens to read this post, I would say that proves our point- first that you are not making decisions based on what you feel or think, and that Serge is pulling the strings.

I KNOW in your heart of hearts, the REAL one, you KNOW that what we are saying rings true.
You feel that Serge is manipulating you ( and many, many others)
You know that Serge is saying outrageous things and making fantastic claims.
And while you want to believe it, and you are hanging on as long as you can, there is a creeping feeling being pushed down that there is something not right...that you are giving yourself over to someone else s will, their ideas, their edicts...and that time is ticking away, eating up your life...you are wondering if the 'choices' you are making are your own, or....not.

While ever you choose not to engage with people that have questions about Serge and Universal Medicine..while ever you avoid the thoughts that question its veracity, you are under its control.

Does this post sound manipulative? If so, at least you can recognize it. Now do yourself a favour, turn around and look the other way.
With Love. CP

From Prophetic Charisma by Len Oakes for anyone wondering what makes someone running a group tick, and their motivations and payoffs are;

'What the charismatic leader most lacks is a sense of the humanity of other people. He may accurately diagnose their problems and brilliantly solve them, he may even genuinely love the followers--loving them quite literally as he loves himself--yet they remain unreal to him because he must not acknowledge what it means to be a fellow sufferer, to feel alone and to have to adjust to an indifferent world, to have to reach out in trust to another for help. He may have actually been alone and had to trust and adjust, but he is rigidly fortified against the meanings of such events. They occur to him as strange, inexplicable interludes on a continuum of mastery and dominance, of self-sufficiency and control; he is "phobic" about recognizing any emotional vulnerability. Any outright opposition is countered with vociferous energy--what Kohut calls "narcissistic rage"--a rage that shows by its extremity and persistence that he is more deeply wounded by injuries to his worldview than by any physical injury (Kohut 1972). Hence he is fondest of the true believers who enthusiastically mirror his ego; those who don’t are resented. Despite the leader’s wisdom, his acceptance of others exists only as long as his own needs are being fulfilled. When they behave contrary to his wishes, he may respond with incomprehension or even paranoia. For what he really empathizes with is shades of himself, and he attracts only those who are in tune with him. He is unable to empathize with people who are indifferent to him, whose needs do not mesh with his own. His inability to experience himself as vulnerable is like a chasm between himself and others. For vulnerability is a vital part of human reality--we are not gods--and anyone who cannot experience it remains fundamentally out of rapport with ordinary people, no matter how successful his manipulations and wisdom may appear. Because of this lack the leader is not a great man; he is a great actor playing the role of a great man.'

and

The charismatic personality, on the other hand, identifies with what Kohut calls the "grandiose self" in the form of some symbol of onmnipotence--God--located within the self. Unlike the idealized superego, the grandiose self is not perceived by the mind as an object. Kohut likens it to the eye, a part of the organism that is involved in perception and hence cannot perceive itself; the grandiose self is the most primitive and essential "organ" of being and cannot apprehend or observe itself. Thus the charismatic prophet senses his God more vaguely, as a peculiar sensation within his being, a pressure coming from below, and he is driven by his ambitions rather than pulled by his ideals (Kohut 1966, 250). Kohut suggests that the unconscious fantasy sustaining this type is "I am God" (or perhaps "I and the mother [or father] are one"; Hanly and Masson 1976). In sum, the messianic prophet gazes up in awe at his God, whom he tries to emulate and follow, whereas the charismatic prophet feels God stirring within and tries to express and get recognition for his deity.

And this in part is why SB has no concern for the effects of what he is doing on the extended families and friends of many if not all of his followers that would plague the conscience of any 'ordinary' person. It is because he is able to do that the he can elevate himself into such an exclusive position, insinuating himself into the primary relationships of his followers and redefining their roles, responsibilities, and even their desires and their emotional sense of fulfillment. Each follower increases his sense of validation in his worldview and his claim of supremacy. And because he has that unwaveringly, those with the matching need come easily under his sway; and in fact in some real sense invite that influence.

It surely is a harder task to be our own masters. But I wager, more rewarding for those brave enough to take that yoke upon themselves, rather than be under the whip of another.

Hi All I've just received some rather interesting facts about SB in the early 90's.I've asked the person who sent them to me to post them here or allow me to post his message. Let me say that these facts are quite revealing to say the least - cheers Eric

Hi Everyone

It would seem that the topic of "enegetic medicine" is gathering some momentum. Not sure if you saw this on Channel 9 - a current affair last night but it was an interesting piece. Here is the link.

[youtu.be]


I know it doesnt relate directly to UM ( yet) however UM are practicing this non proven technique.

There has been a group established called - Friends of Science in Medicine which specifically target Universities and practioners who are starting to use energetic healing as part of their treatment process. Their concern is that energy healing needs to be evidence based which it currently isnt.

This group is aware of Universal Medicine

Let me just clarify "UM are practicing this non proven technique"

That is a little misleading on my behalf .... what i mean is in a general sense.... UM are practicing energetic healing of some kind. I don't have first hand knowledge that Serge specifically uses the technique shown on the TV story.

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frodobaggins
Hi Everyone

It would seem that the topic of "enegetic medicine" is gathering some momentum. Not sure if you saw this on Channel 9 - a current affair last night but it was an interesting piece. Here is the link.

[youtu.be]


I know it doesnt relate directly to UM ( yet) however UM are practicing this non proven technique.

There has been a group established called - Friends of Science in Medicine which specifically target Universities and practioners who are starting to use energetic healing as part of their treatment process. Their concern is that energy healing needs to be evidence based which it currently isnt.

This group is aware of Universal Medicine

Scary stuff. It's good to see officials talking of tightening laws to protect people and pursuing those that break them 'to the full extent of the law'.

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frodobaggins
Let me just clarify "UM are practicing this non proven technique"

That is a little misleading on my behalf .... what i mean is in a general sense.... UM are practicing energetic healing of some kind. I don't have first hand knowledge that Serge specifically uses the technique shown on the TV story.

You will also find that UM do not promise to cure cancer like this man. In fact they pretty much say you are getting payback for choices that have brought disharmony to your body whether it is in this life, from past lives..... Better known as Karma.

What they do suggest, is, if you follow the teachings of UM you may still die of cancer as this is a necessary balancing thing like bush fires, earthquakes etc... But you will most likely be reborn clear and free of cancer.

This is a more clever way of manipulation as they make no promises and there is no way you can verify or disprove their claims of an improved reincarnation. It would seem there would be no grounds for a law suit either if they are not making claims of a cure.

I know students who accept their medical conditions as karma, and are convinced they will be all good in the next incarnation as long as the stay doing 'The Work'

I think I'm in the wrong business. But I do sleep well at night.

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frodobaggins
Let me just clarify "UM are practicing this non proven technique"

That is a little misleading on my behalf .... what i mean is in a general sense.... UM are practicing energetic healing of some kind. I don't have first hand knowledge that Serge specifically uses the technique shown on the TV story.

Hi Frodo, the most interesting line was this' No one in the world knows more about energy healing than me'- i think the mighty Serge might have something to say about that one...! I would love to see Serge and this dude in a room together for a face off.
One wonders if Serge will be brave enough to take his claims out in public. I think not.

Hi Rebecca08,
Thank you for your recent contribution to this forum.
I ask myself what is LOVE, and I believe LOVE can be interrupted in many different ways.
To me LOVE is when I give my kids and wife a hug I get the feeling down my spine, that I know my children and wife know that I genuinely LOVE them and I know they love me. LOVE can be expressed in many different ways by all people.

I agree with your comments re Estoeric students “sometimes UniMed students come across a bit lovey dovey and over the top”. I would like to provide you some comments on my observations on UM students that I know:
1. When they meet they hug / embrace each other for a long period up to 40 sec (I have timed this) many people observing this find this a little over the top.
2. They cannot discuss any other topic unless it relates to Esoteric, It is often Esoteric this, Esoteric that they struggle to engage in conversation that isn’t UM related.
3. They try to convert the unconverted into UM.
4. They struggle to socialize in the general society of today’s world, as they only focus on friendships with people associated with UM.
5. They struggle to explain why they no longer eat / drink dairy or gluten or others foods……..though they have given up these foods groups they do not have a real reason but to say that Esoterically these foods are no good.
6. Some of the women that I know associated with UM are separated / divorced because of their beliefs in UM and are struggling to survive due to financial strains, BUT they are only concerned on how they are going to get enough money to buy the next Esoteric product – New Era CD, creams or next year’s retreat.
7. They alienate themselves from people in groups /functions as they preach the UM way…..many people find what they are saying out right ridiculous and crazy and distance themselves from UMers at a function / outing.
8. They constantly refer to Serge / Natalie in conversations as if they are using their words and not their own.
9. They only play approved UM music as they say it is the only music made with LOVE.

One of my biggest concerns with UM students is how at an Esoteric Women’s Group that I believe many intelligent women attended can sit and listen to Serge disrespectfully talk about the use of women sanitary products in the way he has recently . Why would no one challenge him on his preaching?

I can assure you that none of these women even yourself would let any other male talk so disrespectfully about this in the way Serge did. I can also assure you that any male hearing a male talk like he did would have put an end to the conversation / topic. How can Serge and Natalie turn this into some form of Esoteric way of life, is this not the right of a women to decide on what they use and how they use it with their body.

Come on ladies surely you must find this all a little bit creepy and weird. As Quoted by you Rebecca08 - “Lovingly, I see it as telling someone they are not being themselves and they are mis-interpreting what it means to be loving.” - Please tell this to Serge.
With Love JL.