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gillweir
I am not sure exactly what you mean by a gee up?

The areas I have approached in this post are definitely some that have been on my mind for some time but were avoided being posted because my last post that not gain much interest. My only direct contact with UM is when a dear friend of mine choose to no longer relate to her ex boyfriend due to his increased paranoia. I have not had the personal impact that many have on this forum have with family and friends.

b) I personally do not think it takes much to notice the fallacy in UM's teachings. I have had involvement with various branches of esotericism and this is one means of cutting right through the teachings, it doesn't take much thought. I think a group effort of critique would be a fantastc idea and then Serge could present more of his views and if they stand the scruitiny so be it if not people will be able to see opposite views clearly presented.

c) I think you are asking here if I am invovled with UM and have given another UM member the opportunity to respond in a way that betters their position, is this correct ? I am not involved with them in any manner. When the opportunity arose to present some of these ideas I took it, so in that sense yes it is contrived.

Yes, these ideas have been circulating in my mind for quite a while so was not at all hard to write them down.

Hi GW
Corboy is in the US and doesn’t know our meaning of the word Gee Up, which means to 'take the piss' here. I didn't think you were at all either GW, however I do wonder though whether your average UM student has thought too hard about the origins of Serge's story. My experience is not- they seem to be happy to take whatever he says at face value and dont read/check/compare/source any other information at all. Probably for reasons outlined in my last post.
Like you, I am aware of where he has sourced it, the contradictions, the 're-appropriation and mis-interpretations' to shoe-horn it into his own 'perennial philosophy' ( which you can take to be lies, hogwash or fabricated truths, click the X, close the page. That's okay, but it means his 'philosophy' is right...so there)

Here's an example. "Miasma Fog" which is a favoured term of the UM'ers. What does it mean? Well they think it is an esoteric term meaning 'illusion' of the lords of form. But in reality he has been re-appropriated by Serge from its general meaning which was "contagious gas"- the irony is that until people knew better ( via that dastardly science ) they believed that it was the gas and fumes from sewerage that caused disease. It was known as the Miasma fog and they believed it responsible for outbreaks of Cholera and many other disease. No one believed that it was caused by water born agents, even though one Doctor at the time, John Snow, had good solid scientific proof it was- and many thousands more died until more or less by accident it was understood to be as Dr. Snow had discovered. This is an excellent analogy of the UM'ers take on Serges version of Miasma- we are the John Snows trying to tell the Students that the Miasma fog is not the contagion they think it is.... Unless of course he means it in the following sense:

In Greek mythology, a miasma is a contagious power that has an independent life of its own. Until purged by the sacrificial death of the wrongdoer, society would be chronically infected by catastrophe

And Yes, it is this one I think he is attracted to. He likes a good dose of catastrophe and disaster to prove his ( ahem) point.

It would be nice GW if the details of the story mattered, but my I fear it doesn’t. There might be one or two people out there who might be affected it they think Serge has stolen ideas/invented his own so maybe the way is to introduce one at a time and we can comment on them.
Cheers CP.

Hi Concerned,
Thanks for your response. Interesting about the contagious gas info.

I agree very few of Serges students have likely looked outside of his presentations and searched for more details.
Also agreed upon that gradually introducing serges claims to opposing views can help and this is what I hope deepens.
I am not sure on copyright laws but perhaps this does limit how much critical analysis etc is given to his ideas.

It is a shame that what he presents has very little to do with esotericism. If this is what he gives to the masses I would hard to think what an ear whispered truth is like. Many may dislike the idea of esotericism and think all interested live from wrong views but these seekers have been misled from day one and perhaps as you say concerned not even considered the begining of things did not start with Serge. He certainly has many angles people can disagree with him from.

I for one hope that Serges unlearning process commences sooner then later and his thoughts dissipate for the good of the all.

Thanks concerned partner you are very dedicated

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corboy
Quick suggestion:

If replying to someone else's post, best way is to cite the parts one is responding to in quotes. That helps distinguish someone's quoted material from the reply.

Rebecca and Gill this is helpful information for both of you...

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rebecca08
1. 'often a lot can be said in very simple language' ... again this is a question of context ... I was talking about facebook posts. In regards to the grammar and the style of Serge's books, they are written differently than most writing and because of this they require more presence when you read them if you are to fully grasp them. I don't see this as disadvantaging anyone because if there is an earnestness to read them then the focus is there and the words themselves are not that hard to understand. Have you ever read a thesis or an academic paper? In my experience there are writings that are a lot harder to understand than Serge's books. And if you do find them difficult and you don't have the patience to read them, that's ok too. They are not going to be palatable to most and they are not trying to appeal to a mass audience.

2. Not sure whether you are insulting children or grown adults here, both are capable of not being clear in their intentions when they express even when they mean to be loving or caring it can come from the wrong place. I am not special in being able to observe this. It is certainly not 'mind reading', just an observation -- the grown adults who I was directing the message to are grown adults who can feel for themselves whether it was something for them to reflect on / applied to them or not.

3. Hmmm - No you don't need to be a member of an organisation to be more loving or caring I agree with you, at what point did I say this was the case?

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gillweir
I am not sure excactly what you mean by a gee up?

The areas I have approached in this post are definitely some that have been on my mind for some time but were avoided being posted because my last post that not gain much interest. My only direct contact with UM is when a dear friend of mine choose to no longer relate to her ex boyfriend due to his increased paranoia. I have not had the personal impact that many have on this forum have with family and friends.

b) I personally do not think it takes much to notice the fallacy in UM's teachings. I have had involvement with various branches of esotericism and this is one means of cutting right through the teachings, it doesn't take much thought. I think a group effort of critique would be a fantastc idea and then Serge could present more of his views and if they stand the scruitiny so be it if not people will be able to see opposite views clearly presented.

c) I think you are asking here if I am invovled with UM and have given another UM member the opportunity to respond in a way that betters their position, is this correct ? I am not involved with them in any manner. When the opportunity arose to present some of these ideas I took it, so in that sense yes it is contrived.

Yes, these ideas have been circulating in my mind for quite a while so was not at all hard to write them down.

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gillweir
I am not sure excactly what you mean by a gee up?

As Concerned Partner says, what is meant is that I am questioning whether or not your post was genuine, a question triggered by the overly convoluted writing style and that you've half answered some of your own questions.

In a nutshell, your writing style seems very energetic.

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gillweir
b) I personally do not think it takes much to notice the fallacy in UM's teachings.

Agreed.

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gillweir
I have had involvement with various branches of esotericism and this is one means of cutting right through the teachings, it doesn't take much thought.

Fair point, thanks for sharing.

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gillweir
I think a group effort of critique would be a fantastc idea

I agree it would be good for Serge to be cross examined by experts in the field, but why the need for the preamble after the question when you first asked it below:

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gillweir
Do you know if Serge intends to open up his teachings to an intensive critique from many perspectives?
Of course one doctrine does not entirely correlate with another though principals within trans himalyan occultism, Kabballah, Rosicrucianism, The golden dawn and other western branches have some similiarities from most angles. I would also think that esoteric buddhism (Vajrayana) with its inclusivity of all conditions would offer a very appealing critique to those fair minded individuals that which to gain comprehensive insight is used skillfully.

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gillweir
c) I think you are asking here if I am invovled with UM and have given another UM member the opportunity to respond in a way that betters their position, is this correct ? I am not involved with them in any manner. When the opportunity arose to present some of these ideas I took it, so in that sense yes it is contrived.

Alright that's fair enough, but let's not lose sight of the purpose of this thread and why we are here. This isn't a discussion on esotericism and its merits / failings, moreover we are here discuss Universal Medicine, it's delusional leader, and the havoc that is being wrought on his flock. So, by all means discuss esotericism, but let's always bring it back to the current application by Serge and Universal Medicine and how this is impacting the lives of the people around us.

Others use the term Miasmic Fog though not perhaps in the sense used by UM

Note, the term can be miasmic miasm miasma, depending on who the writer is.

One astrologer regards faulty observation as causing it.

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Meditations o n the C u b e o f Space

Much of the lower psychism that is prevalent in the New Age community can be understood through the symbolism of the T e n of Cups. Astrologically the Ten of Cups is ruled by d in N.

This creates a powerful level of receptivity when brought into alliance with and Y.

With the expansive qualities of 4. and the miasmic fog that is produced through faulty observations (y), we find humanity constantly assailed with glamour and misinterpretation concerning its experience of day to day.

If we orient ourselves toward the higher plane of mind, Buddhi or R"13, we cannot help but achieve a grater level of understanding of the nature of reality..."

A discussion of 'Miasms' - from another system based on Alice Bailey. Serge is not unique. Others have their own systems.

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10. Perhaps this friction is what, from a philosophical point of view, we could consider to be the root of the miasm Psora as a general human phenomenon, i.e. the basic delusion of existence, which has been written about in many of the great spiritual writings. Possibly an individual who had overcome his lower nature would be free of Psora, or enlightened, as it is also called.

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17. Bailey writes about the Miasms in Esoteric Healing, although I do not believe she refers to them under that name. More recently Gurudas, in Flower Essences and Vibrational Healing, has proposed that we add new environmental Miasms such as produced by petrochemical pollution, etc. Hahnemann recognised excessive medical drugging as a cause of chronic disease states.

This term has been around for nearly a 100 years.

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Tansley, a chiropractor, had spent many years studying the writings of Alice Bailey (1880-1949) and drew heavily on her concepts of esoteric anatomy and psychology to introduce a new diagnostic system which re-oriented the focus of radionic analysis away from the material plane of organ functions and pathology and towards causation within the human energy, or subtle, body.

Rae, on the other hand, was the inventor who could translate Tansley's thinking into a practical and flexible diagnostic and treatment system, known as Magneto-Geometry.

Bailey's work7, drawn from various Eastern traditions and integrated into a new form, is far too vast to even begin to attempt describing here, and I will simply create a thumbnail sketch of some of what has been appropriated into radionics. I might add that as the years have gone by various of these concepts have become commonplace, but during the period the books were written, 1919-1949, they must have seemed like the last word in arcane obscurity.

Bailey proposed a model of (ultimate) reality as being comprised of seven planes of energy, each with its concomitant forms of consciousness. Each plane is comprised of seven sub-planes of increasing quality and fineness, the whole blending into a continuum. Each of these planes also manifests in us as a corresponding energy body, e.g. the Etheric Body, Astral Body, and so forth. Briefly, the 7th plane is the Physical, which is subdivided into the solid physical; then liquids; then gases; then four superior levels of etheric matter. It is the energy of the etheric plane (prana) which vitalises the physical form, and *Tansley also states that the miasms reside primarily in the Etheric body; when activated by an appropriate (morbific) stimulus they will taint the energy reaching the physical body, with the results that Hahnemann described at length. *

I should also note that energy is also distributed through the Etheric body via a system of pathways known as Nadis, and it may be considered that these in turn externalise as the nervous system 8.

This article lists some therapies of evidence based medicine as being sources of trouble.

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4. Problems resulting from the Environment and the Planet

This is a large and, regrettably, expanding category. Alice Bailey writes of diseases inherited from imperfections in the etheric fabric of the Earth itself. As this material is incorporated into the body of the individual human so the miasms may also be acquired, as I at present understand it. In this category we could also include mass acute diseases, which may have their roots in social stresses, such as influenza, measles, mumps, etc, and which may leave their own sequelae that can have effects on the individual for years afterwards. In addition human activity has created a range of new Miasms, which at minimum may be said to include:

(a) Radiation, petrochemicals, electro-magnetic, heavy metals, etc 17

(b) Iatrogenic, from medicines, vaccinations, dental amalgam, and so forth;

Here I would suggest we also include geopathic stress in various forms, which seems to have its source in imperfections in the geological structure of the planet; and parasite diseases such as malaria and other types of infestation having their provenance in the other Kingdoms of Nature. We may even want to add cosmic influences here such as solar electromagnetic flux and even astrological influences.18

Note the claim here that some valuable research has been suppressed.

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2. The best history of radionics is Report on Radionics by Edward Russell, published by C. W. Daniel & Co. Essential reading, including fascinating material on agricultural radionics and the general techniques of weed and pest control without chemicals (suppressed in the USA in the 1950s by the chemical companies, according to Russell).

3. Abrams also developed electronically-based treatment procedures, but this promising line of work seems for the present to have fallen into neglect and is outside the scope of this article. It also possible that his concepts were used as a partial basis for the work of Royal Raymond Rife, the American inventor of another allegedly-suppressed healing technology. See The Cancer Cure That Worked by Barry Lynes. Abrams' work may also bear some relation to the current research of Dr Jacques Benveniste - see his website, www.digibio.com

Well said KiK , I think some people here are inadvertently creating unnecessary diversions and getting too far off the track . Thankyou but lets keep to the issue . I don't know about you but I don't particularly want to have to read long dissertations about esoteric philosophy. Eric

point taken

thanks Knowledge is king,
I uinderstand your view now very well and can see how I was going in another direction. His character has had much criticism and I do hope if annything this encourages him to stand up and speak openly.

For me there has been so much fantastic information posted on this forum and so many well balanced, logical and constructive comments for the students and those soon to be students to read and consider.

I am not sure if its just me but there are 2 simple points that INSTANTLY make me want to walk the other way if i came across Serge and Universal Medicine. Despite his ego and all his other human downfalls ( which we all have) I am sure he the loving and caring person all his friends and followers say he is. HOWEVER....

a) as soon as someone claims to have supernatural powers they have lost me. (unless they can prove it - i do give everyone a chance)

b) as soon as all other belief systems are crapped on then I know something isn't right.


Lets forgot all the crazy rules, mystic interpretations and other baseless stuff which forms the Universal Medicine belief system, the 2 points above should make anyone think.... "this isn't right"

So students ( as concerned as expressed before) .... take the good of UM and come back to your friends and family.... you don't need to rely or follow serge ( at a cost) to lead a loving life.

I think Rebecca is busy at the moment, maybe she is busy adding a link to this forum page to her Universal Medicine Facebook page. Where are you Rebecca? I hope it isn't option b or c...

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knowledge_is_king
Rebecca,

...text removed by knowledge_is_king as not relevant to this post...

Let's assume that we can take you at face value and that we can believe you when uou say that you and UM and Serge and his family have nothing to hide. That's awesome! Then why don't you post a link to this forum on the Universal Medicine Facebook page? I mean if you don't have anything to hide this is a great opportunity for you to answer our concerns and by displaying it on your page it keeps you transparent. Because really all we are discussing are things any rational adult should be asking themselves when they 'join' (your word) a group like this.

So I guess the question is:
Do you:
a) stay on here and part take in an open debate, risk increasing search traffic to this site, and post up a link to this forum thread on your UM Facebook page, and achieve the transparency gains that clear a lot of the doubts about UM?
b) do you turn down the challenge and leave people wondering what you and by extension what UM have to hide?
or
c) do you come up with an excuse to leave for another reason, or attack my reasoning, or ignore me but refuse nonetheless?

I for one really hope you stick around, as I would love to hear your thoughts on some of the things we've been discussing of late. Shall we start with tampons or eating disorders I'll let you choose.