Quote
Gibbs
I remember one lecture where Serge stood there and spoke about how he, and his wife Miranda made love, not sex. He then said he knew many people were jealous of their soulful lovemaking and how he could feel the jealousy of many in the group. He told us all to just admit when we were not making love. To be honest with ourselves that were just having sex with our partners.

I also recall him saying was that when having just sex, the man is only 'relieving' himself. The woman is letting him because she deeply craves 'intimacy' (from not being touched by her father?). He said the man is just ejecting his garbage in her and the woman takes it. He made it sound so disgusting, like spiritual rape or something, that I didn't want to, or know how to be intimate with my wife for quite a while. Every time I did sleep with my partner, I felt that I was falling short of this standard of 'Making Love'.

This is yet another example of Serge's hypocritical use of comparison (something he claims he's beyond) to psychologically manipulate his audience into thinking their lifestyles aren't good enough, and that he has something they need but can only achieve by continually devoting themselves to UM.

It's an especially insidious method of undermining the student's sense of both themselves and security in their relationships; suggesting that the most intimate moments between two partners are fraught with 'rape energy' and possibly a source for pranic influence by other forces. If students buy into this of course it's going to create strain on their relationships, particularly if only one partner is involved with UM.

It's also extremely arrogant of him to assume attendees of these relationship workshops don't already make love gently and with great presence and intimacy. Though I'm sure he'd condescendingly claim he can 'feel' that they don't. He knows everything else in the universe so why should these details escape him.

Here's something more unnatural and unloving than anything Serge could suggest: having him there with you, in one or both of your heads, telling you that every time you make love with your partner you're doing it wrong. A psychological three-way in which Serge the invisible extra party is constantly admonishing you for not being up to his 'fiery' standards, and that there's something pornographic about the way you express your love and affection with your life partner.

You're right Gibbs, this is THE entry point (pun not intended) through which Serge and UM are ultimately destroying relationships. If students believe that their partners are channeling prana through non UM approved foods, then the level of fear, anxiety or even disgust that will arise if they believe their own love-making doesn't meet Serge's approval cannot be under-estimated,

This is my evaluation of UM, Gibbs. The students think they've found a solution in Serge's convoluted presentations, but they fail to realize that he actually presented a very confusing, in all likelihood imaginary set of problems which he claims to exclusively have the solutions to, the catch being it will take a lifetime (possibly multiple lifetimes!) of doing 'the work' (and $$$) to reach the state of 'stillness' and 'joy' that Serge claims to be in permanently.

To any potential UM student reading this I implore you to consider the following:

Why has no dedicated student ever reached their own truth through UM? By that I mean truly connected to their own souls and forged their own path, as opposed to simply absorbing Serge's beliefs, writings, speech patterns etc and then insisting 'they've always known this was true'. If you were connecting to a genuine truth within yourself, you wouldn't continually need to go outside of yourself (back to Serge) for further clarification.

If Serge was indeed Alice A. Bailey, why are there so many inconsistencies in their cosmologies? Read her books for yourself and then compare them to Serge's; it's quite clear that he has merely re-interpreted her already ambiguous, incoherent material. He's taken many of the key phrases but added his own definitions and interpretations, then regurgitated the whole mess in a writing style that's deliberately designed to confuse you.

Consider for a moment Serge's teaching that the mind often confounds us and gets in the way of our true intelligence (our hearts). Would he not then present his belief system in as palatable and simple a manner as possible? Instead you get a highly complicated, often contradictory and ever-expanding set of teachings that must be read and re-read along with workshops, retreats, lectures etc. Anyone 'in-truth' can see that Serge's ideas are directed firmly at confounding your mind and disabling your critical thought processes. If you accept the premise that he is all wise and operating at a higher level than you, then you have given your power away to him from the outset and continue to do so every time you go back to UM for the next level of 'understanding'.[/quote]

Thanks MacReady for your above words.

This has been great reading for myself. I recently had a discussion with my wife with regards to UM, and from the information i have received from this thread i was able to ask many confronting questions that challenged Serges teachings / UM and in many cases she was unable to give a formative answer. She would often try and recite what i thought would have been some of Serges words but was unable to provide positive debate on the issues that i raised.

She did state that she felt allot of what Serge does say is "to far out there for her to take on".

So next time when i challenge her on UM i will be raising some of your thoughts above, and after the last conversation i had a "feeling" that i pasted some doubt in her head on Serge and UM.

Quote
MacReady

Quote
Gibbs
I remember one lecture where Serge stood there and spoke about how he, and his wife Miranda made love, not sex. He then said he knew many people were jealous of their soulful lovemaking and how he could feel the jealousy of many in the group. He told us all to just admit when we were not making love. To be honest with ourselves that were just having sex with our partners.

I also recall him saying was that when having just sex, the man is only 'relieving' himself. The woman is letting him because she deeply craves 'intimacy' (from not being touched by her father?). He said the man is just ejecting his garbage in her and the woman takes it. He made it sound so disgusting, like spiritual rape or something, that I didn't want to, or know how to be intimate with my wife for quite a while. Every time I did sleep with my partner, I felt that I was falling short of this standard of 'Making Love'.

This is yet another example of Serge's hypocritical use of comparison (something he claims he's beyond) to psychologically manipulate his audience into thinking their lifestyles aren't good enough, and that he has something they need but can only achieve by continually devoting themselves to UM.

It's an especially insidious method of undermining the student's sense of both themselves and security in their relationships; suggesting that the most intimate moments between two partners are fraught with 'rape energy' and possibly a source for pranic influence by other forces. If students buy into this of course it's going to create strain on their relationships, particularly if only one partner is involved with UM.

It's also extremely arrogant of him to assume attendees of these relationship workshops don't already make love gently and with great presence and intimacy. Though I'm sure he'd condescendingly claim he can 'feel' that they don't. He knows everything else in the universe so why should these details escape him.

Here's something more unnatural and unloving than anything Serge could suggest: having him there with you, in one or both of your heads, telling you that every time you make love with your partner you're doing it wrong. A psychological three-way in which Serge the invisible extra party is constantly admonishing you for not being up to his 'fiery' standards, and that there's something pornographic about the way you express your love and affection with your life partner.

You're right Gibbs, this is THE entry point (pun not intended) through which Serge and UM are ultimately destroying relationships. If students believe that their partners are channeling prana through non UM approved foods, then the level of fear, anxiety or even disgust that will arise if they believe their own love-making doesn't meet Serge's approval cannot be under-estimated,

Hi MacReady- accurate assessment, and thanks Gibbs for sharing that.

A few years back our love life took a turn for the worse and many of the things you mentioned became apparent. After a sudden long hiatus with lovemaking ( or sex) I asked why and was told she was no longer interested in sex at all, only in making love. A bit confused, because I thought we did that, I went along with it. However over the following 2-3 years I realised that this involved being in a state that was impossible to achieve- a week long courtship of being in a 'loving' space- no negatives, issues, or conflicts at all. A perfect storm of love if you like, that is actually impossible meaning your down to a few possible moments of intimacy per year if lucky. Of course it was apparent to me that this was something Serge was pushing, but at the time I didn’t realise how it forms his trifecta of control which is a symptom of his narcissism. Women to tend to have lower libido's and men end up doing a fair bit of the chasing, so it does end up looking like men are just trying to 'offload'- but there is a better and more accurate explanation. Women and Men find intimacy differently. Women do prefer talk and touch ( feeling) and men prefer contact and action (expression)- but none the less, Serge is able to again tap that feeling women have that they are simply sex objects for men’s pleasure and demonise the men in the process, rather than showing them that it is a two way ( no pun intended) interaction. The real sexual abuse here is the way Serge has implicated himself into women's view of their bodies, sexuality and their partnerships and marriages; and of course his gloating about how great he is ( there are more examples of this to share at a later date)

If any UM students reading this thread doubt how much Serge is controlling them, then this should be the big wake up for you. I know a lot of you have found ways of convincing yourself you are not ‘under his mind control’ or the more nasty terms of ‘in a cult’ because you think certain ‘conditions’ are not being met. The fact is, they are but in a subtle and pernicious way. The real picture is, Serge is a mortal just like the rest of us. However he, like many other ‘world saviours’ has deluded himself that he is something special with fantastic stories he’s gleaned from books. He’s got a posse of hard core followers sycophantically believing anything he says, and because we are group animals, the herd has grown. He imposing control over people and things- look at his family all working for the cause- I am sure there is no choice. He would have exercised the same kinds of mind control over them and got them believing his crazy stories- and now it extends out to you which you more or less allow to happen!. He controls you with his choices about food , exercise , love and sex. He decides what is sanctified and what isn’t. He smartly taps feelings he knows we already has and transforms them to validate his philosophies. And as has been stated before, he creates false problems and then gives you false solutions which leaves you disenabled unless you keep referring back to him.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again. There is the real world happening now with the people that love you to the best of their ability, or the fantasy world of Serge with unachievable goals and confounding, nonsensical philosophies. Even if Serge is somehow right how does it make any sense to discard your life, which passes by relentlessly, while you dream of something better? Talk about ‘livingness’? this is the NOW.

It amazes me that UM students don’t think it is a belief system. It’s “Ancient Wisdom” they say...One thing belief systems do is take up a lot of ‘experiential’ space and replace it with “idea’s”. If this was not the case, then all of Serge’s books would be blank sheets of paper; but rather there is 6 or so incomprehensible volumes of ‘pondering thusly’s’ to fill your mind, hours of recordings to download to hypnotise yourself with, second rate music to numb your senses- before you get to the control devices discussed.

A non belief system UM students means this “ I don’t know what the answers are: but I am willing to look at all the information whether it agrees with me or not, and to test its veracity, its source- I am willing to test if it can be disproved”

Well, you KNOW UM can easily be disproved, which is why you avoid the conversations, so it is evident you are in a very big convoluted belief system and under the control of a very strange self interested man. I think everyone on this thread hopes one day rather than looking up to him in awe you too can see him for who he is just as we can now. I can assure you it is not at all pretty when the goggles are removed.

Quote
Eric Dobbs
Hi everyone, has anyone noticed that ESOTERIC BREAST MASSAGE has been removed from the benhayon sites.I get the distinct feeling that these loons are feeling some heat and it's not from their "fiery sutras" either.Is it still possible to purchase a jar of serge's fine ointment guaranteed to restore those breasts to their former glory I ask. ? Come on serge how about something for the men- you know what I mean or will the breast tincture do the job. I await your wisdom-ness ,Eric Dobbs

Hi Eric,
I have recently checked their web site and found that when i did a search the only mention of EBM is the names of the practitioners that perform this sicking form of "massage".

I recently had the displeasure of listening to Serges daughter Natalie Benhayon Esoteric Womens Presentation No.4 where she talks about the "ovaries massage" - " a vey simple technique of hand movements over the ovaries" that she now performs on the followers. The presentation went for 46 min of pure dribble from her.
Below are some quotes from the presentation:

1. she would often say "pretty cool" in the presenation
2. " a little full on, get where i am coming from"
3. " she can read a womans ovaries and what is held in their"
4. " ovaries speak - no emotional dishonest spin - they talk truth a matter of fact"
5. "imprints held within the ovaries are holding you back and interferring from allowing yourself how to feel as a woman and get released from a woman"
6. " states during the presentaion "just go with it now"
7. " women lost the ability to communicate"
8. Repeatly says through out the presentation " Does this make sense"

She finally states on the conclussion of the presentation ' dont go back to your partners and state that Natalie said i have to communicate, and no more sex, no more this or no more that - dont give them my address, because everything i give you tonight has come from the womens ovaries i have read not from me making it up or just saying examples that come into my head these are real life examples". " Claim you felt it and dont use my name, claim it came from you if you do that you clear your own ovaries".

So again we have a member of Serges family that have the special powers that they can through their hands read the built up problems in a women ovaries.......but it is not made up from her head.??????

They are a special family this lot.

Hi All
I just found Web's favourite website [www.heartscenter.org]
For some reason they dont seem to be aware the master has ascended in Australia, so I sent them a message to let them know!

Thankyou Gibbs, MacReady and Concerned partner ,what you have just exposed about serge benhayon and his views on sex, love- making and partnership are outrageous and sickening.This to me represents the thoughts of a very disturbed mind and when his cork finally pops there will
be much destuction on the home front.I'm beginning to feel great sadness for those children of his and his poor wife- what a lie they are all living.-Eric

It has been easy for me to talk about the diet, the crazy UM ideas the pranic energies and being possessed that my husband unwelcomingly brought into our home, what hasn't been easy to talk about publicly has been our sex life.
I've been thanked by the male partners who have been able to see that some non-believer women partners have experienced similar problems with their Um partner devotees, but to all the men contributors I now thank you, most humbly. You have helped me see that my husbands reluctance to 'make love' was not because of me, which I thought, but of the madness in Serges talks which I suspected.
We like most couples who have been together through the ups and downs of life have had periods-short periods where intimacy has waned, but not for long.
After his work collegue introduced him to UM he started asking "permission" to touch me, something I hated, he told me some gobbly gup which made no sense at all after all the years we have been together and our shared enjoyment of touching. I would love to go into more detail but enough said.
However over the months/years the work collegue, yes you guessed it female and single was always there to support him, especially when I was frustrated, annoyed and really pissed off with all the Serge shit affecting our family and relationship so much. Predictably when I confronted him on these issues he denied anything and I was yet again made out to be unloving, unkind, not speaking gently enough to him and a dark energy he had to deal with, possessed by pranic energies.
He is slowly disclosing more to me...not all but enough. I have moments of sheer joy with him and then he might drop a line which takes me down to the fear of returning to the lectures and bad days again, it happened again this morning. So I go to the site for support from 'friends' and what do I find someone who has the courage to bring up the issue of relationships and intimicy.
No men partners, I can assure you it is not only you who have had to deal with Serge in your bedrooms. So his first lovely wife and mother of his four children put up with his dumping on or is that in her all those years until he divorced her for Miranda, you lucky woman.....NOT.
Once again you have given me such helpful information and support, thank you.
I refuse to feel badly about myself anymore, but I do feel sorry for all the partners including mine who have missed out on so much intimacy with us, the 'enlightened ones', who never believed for a minute any of the utter nonsense that comes out of Serges mouth or is that Alice, Leoardo or is it today Pythagorus speaking?

HI John

I have a print out of something similar which will be useful later. Natalie is the anointed one and Serge says she is a 'seer'- whatever that means. What she does though is recruits through women’s groups, and spreads Serge's control through these discourses. She also 'counsels' women having relationship issues. This must be based on her past life experiences, because apparently to date there has been no serious relationships. This problem is covered in the discourses- she is so clear is hard for her to meet her equal. Serge made the um, switch from Deborah to Miranda and managed to keep both on board the UM express. I know the 'his-story' of the switch process which is interesting, but it cant be said here. Needless to say, Serge is masterful in some things.

You touched on language which is really important. The way that words are used are designed to invalidate the thought process, and to elicit agreement. All the Benhayons use this same language "cool?, sounds full on but true, does it make sense?, understand?" as a round-off when something has been stated that actually doesn’t make sense and with which you normally would not agree in a normal two way conversation. It is an age-old ( Ancient! Pythagorean maybe..) technique that many gurus, motivational speakers, and sales people use. The idea is this. A person asks a question- you consider for a moment, then ask a question back basically repeating what the person just said in different words- they answer it themselves- you then use their words to segue into your statement- Yes, that's right, and then...... and when you have dovetailed your meaning into the sequence, you round off with " make sense" or for sales people " sound good?". This teminates the thinking on the subject once you have agreement. Most people will agree out of force of habit, particluarly if you nod or use affirmative body language which they will then mirror in spite of themselves. It works and Serge uses it all the time. It works even more powefully for him and UM in general ( or any other group) because people go to see him for counselling and are already in a lower status by definition, and because they believe he does have a supernatural ADSL 2+ connection to Shamballah (long/lat 44° 40' N / 110° 2' E- just in case you need to ascend in a hurry)
His family have been exposed to it and of course can't help themselves. No training required. Others that are around them a lot end up emulating the language.

Here's one for UM people. Imagine Serge having a conversation that didn’t involve him knowing something more than you did? Or that didn’t end in "cool? Make sense?" Imagine Serge saying something like " I cant be sure of that, but it is my opinion...." Hard to imagine isn’t it. That is because he doesn’t operate like that. He needs to be right, to have 'ascendency', to know everything. There is only one way you can know everything: Be God, or be someone pretty close to him/her. We know Serge gets a lot wrong. But if you dont believe us, try it yourself...you can do some simple tests yourselves at home with some things you find around the house...a peice of paper, a pen, and some thinking. Construct a few "hypotheticals' involving people that dont exist and see if he works it out...bet you he can't. He cant read minds, he can be tricked easily - therefore he is not God, or all knowing...therefore he must be...........

Thanks Concerned Partner,

One point i forgot to report is that Natalie is only 22 years old she states on the recording....how a young person at this age with no real formal training could counsel women on relationship issues is beyond me.

It is a sorry state when the women who listen to her are happy to discuss there issues with her when she has little life experience.....and pay her for the advice.

We as a group need to keep the information flowing as i recorded the number of hits to this site 2 days ago and what it is today and over 250 people have look at the site in these couple of days....probably Serge checking up on what is being said about his group.

The word is getting out there of the negative effects this UM group is having on families and individuals, sooner it is exposed as the sham it is, the better it will be for all.

My bank account will grow as i have previously estimated that my wife yearly spend is around 6 - 7 k, but now knowing more about the foods of UM i now understand why she now buys organic free range eggs and organic free range chicken, special gluten free bread over $7.00 per loaf that are half the size of a normal loaf, the soy milk which are all expensive foods. So i believe that our yearly spend is greater than what i have thought.

The UM group has a very close support group after the recent retreat in Australia they bombarded my wife with various emails on their services. Not only UM but the hanger-on’s like Chris James flogging his new music and a new CD coming out. After the retreat my wife was on another planet for a week or two taking in all the teachings, so they seem to get them when they know they are in that frame of "feeling loving mood".

Just to let you know my wife has come back to earth...the early sleeps did not last and the nor reading of the UM books every night.

Note to serge: why don't you gather your family and sycophantic entourage and bugger off back to Mars and don't come back here until you've dreamt up a better belief system than the present nonsense you're offering ( by the way ,do us a favor - take Chris James with you)-Eric