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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 12, 2013 11:42PM

Nope...cant be changed, but it have to be lived out....and this is just the way God wants it to be lived out as you can read in His word if you understand it.

So, your life, from your conception to your physical death and the time in wich you recieve eyes to see and ears to hear is known by God...but not by you or me...we have to live it.

Psa 139:16 Your eyes saw my embryo, And my days, all of them were written upon Your scroll; The days were formed When there was not one of them."

Ecc 1:12 I myself, the Assembler, came to be king over Israel in Jerusalem."
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

So...to give us an experience with evil...God made sure that humanity got enough to get experienced with...He created evil and He created His tool to use it

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Not a message that will win a popularity contest...will get you clubbed out of every church...believe me, i have some experience with that and but that is how God is doing it.

Jesus Christ went first, the chosen and faithfull to the end ones are going trough judgement now and they will help the rest of humanity trough their judgement later. In the old testament you can see the type and shadow of that in the harvest feasts.

Do you have any biblical knowledge Rick ?

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 13, 2013 12:08AM

RobinKorevaar:

What then is the exact purpose of IWWB?

Do you think that your life must or should be "lived out" with the IWWB?

What is the role of Mike Vinson in this "lived out" process?

Are the members of the IWWB "saints" according to your understanding of the bible?

Are the IWWB members the "we" that will judge?

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 13, 2013 02:18AM

What then is the exact purpose of IWWB?
IWWB in itself has no purpose. It is just a name wich is inspirerd by the words of Jezus Christ.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Do you think that your life must or should be "lived out" with the IWWB?
No...IWWB is just a tool

What is the role of Mike Vinson in this "lived out" process?
He is living it out himself

Are the members of the IWWB "saints" according to your understanding of the bible?
You call it "members", we call eachother helpers of eachothers joy
2Co 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

The only way to be sure to be a saint is when you are raised as one by God. Even Paul told that he didnt count himself as having apprehended.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,


Are the IWWB members the "we" that will judge?
The ones who will judge are called, chosen and faithfull to the end. Nobody knows what wil be on tomorrow, so being faithfull to the end can only be seen after on be raised.
'
Jas 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
Jas 4:15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: Sparky ()
Date: January 13, 2013 02:32AM

Just a side note.

This apparent IWWB philosophy is the reason Calvinism lost it's power over the protestant church over the years... belief that God sets on us on paths that are not even redemable even with the full power of God. God says this baby will be a follower and this baby will be lost?

You can see then how fruitless the philospohy of such a diety is: if there is no hope...why try? And if I was meant to be "saved" all along, why not live the life of a hedonist since I will be saved anyway.

No. Calvinism is as good as dead...may it's ugly anti-humanistic head never rise up to darken mankind's doorstep again.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: Truth_Seeker_78 ()
Date: January 13, 2013 05:01AM

@Rick - you asked: "Are the IWWB members the "we" that will judge?"

Yes, IWWB teach and believe that they, with their superior knowledge, will be future world leaders and that when Jesus appears bodily again, they will be transformed into spiritual overlords who will rule the earth with "a rod of iron."

Vinson has stated that during this time (known as the millennium) the entire purpose is to prepare the world's population for destruction. Here is a direct quote:

"The purpose of the millennial reign, my friend, is so that the world can be ruled with a rod of iron in order to prep them for their inevitable destruction. Yes, that’s right. When Christ is ruling with a rod of iron along with His elect during the millennial reign, he is preparing the rest of the world’s population for utter destruction..."

@Sparky - I agree totally with what you say above. I lived for many years with the doctrine of IWWB, believing that every single act was a predetermined and specifically scripted act of God. Can you imagine how dis-empowering this would be for say, a rape victim or someone who suffered domestic violence or molestation as a child. It truly is a sick doctrine to promote and only serves to keep people in a state of emotional and spiritual retardation.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: January 13, 2013 06:05PM

Quote

Yes, that’s right. When Christ is ruling with a rod of iron along with His elect during the millennial reign, he is preparing the rest of the world’s population for utter destruction..."

Yet Jesus said, let the one without sin cast the first stone, when the crowd demanded what penalty should be imposed on the woman allegedly observed violating marriage vows.

The crowd all walked away when given this advice.

And the case of the man born blind, and Jesus being asked, whether he or his family had sinned that he should be born blind.

Jesus replied, this was a chance to display the glory of god.

Rod of iron? I dont think so.

Cruel human beings love to imagine a god or a jesus who is as cruel as themselves.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 13, 2013 06:47PM

RobinKorevaar:

You have often posted comments that are evasive, talk and circles and are deliberately vague. But here is what I have come away with after this exchange.

Based upon your comments and others here and my own thirty years of experience working in the area of destructive cults, the IWWB appears to be a classic cult.

The group is exclusive and sees no other group, organization or denomination of Christians as legitimate. Members believe they are the spiritual elite chosen by God to judge and lead. This belief system is similar to the Waco Davidians, Unification Church, International Church of Christ, Exclusive Brethren, Children of God and other supposedly bible-based groups that have been called "cults". All the groups can cite and quote various scriptures, which supposedly prove they are right etc. However, the scriptures only prove those inside the group and are based upon the group's interpretation of those scriptures. This is done by spinning the scriptures in what can be seen as little more than "proof-texting", which is a discredited form of studying the bible.

The IWWB apparently has no meaningful accountability or financial transparency and therefore appears to be essentially a totalitarian organization run by Mike Vinson and "elders". The only check on the leadership's power is that members are free to leave if they don't like the way the group is run. But based upon posts on this thread they are made to feel fearful about leaving and that there is no other group to affiliate with chosen by God.

Please understand that your quotation of scripture is not what "God says" or what "God wants", but rather a reflection of how leaders can twist the bible to mean whatever they want.

Jesus warned that many would come in his name, but he would not know them (Matthew 24:5) and that there would be "false prophets" and "They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves" (Matthew 7:15). Paul warned believers about bad leaders and condemned them in Galatians. Peter also said there would be "false teachers" (2 Peter 2:1-3). These scriptures are not subject to interpretation, but instead are self evident and quite explicit. What they say collectively is that groups like the IWWB have been around for a long time and believers should watch out for them.

Cults behave in a fairly predictable and consistent manne, which can be observed through their pattern of their behavior.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Certain psychological themes which recur in these various historical contexts also arise in the study of cults. Cults can be identified by three characteristics:

1. a charismatic leader who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose their power;
2. a process I call coercive persuasion or thought reform;
3. economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.

In my opinion these themes are evident in the IWWB based upon the discussion and posts at this thread.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The key factors that distinguish coercive persuasion from other training and socialization schemes are:

1. The reliance on intense interpersonal and psychological attack to destabilize an individual's sense of self to promote compliance

2. The use of an organized peer group

3. Applying interpersonal pressure to promote conformity

4. The manipulation of the totality of the person's social environment to stabilize behavior once modified

In my opinion the IWWB uses coercive persuasion to maintain control over members of the group.

See [www.culteducation.com]

"The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself."

This is one of the criteria for "thought reform" as explained by psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton and would apply to the peculiar way that the IWWB quotes and uses the bible. This can be seen as the IWWB form of "sacred science" for the "ordering of human existence". That is, the Vinson/IWWB interpretation of the bible is not just an interpretation, but rather "what God says" and therefore cannot be questioned and is perfect. Any other understanding of the bible is wrong and condemned. Likewise all churches, denominations and Christians that disagree are always wrong.

Of course you probably feel that all this doesn't apply to your group. Other groups may be "cults", but not your group. But that's what they all say.

In my opinion if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it just might be a duck. And you should know that I have been qualified and accepted as an expert witness in court proceedings about groups called "cults" in 10 states including US. Federal Court.

I would strongly recommend that you take an IWWB vacation. Get out of the bubble you are in and seek out others for feedback. You might take a month off and stay away from anyone associated in any way, shape or form with IWWB. During that time talk with Christian clergy and other believers in your area to learn in-depth specifically why they would disagree with Vinson/IWWB doctrines. You might be surprised to find out how solid and biblical their explanations will be in an open discussion away from the group and its influence.

I realize that you probably won't do this in any meaningful way and that at this point you are probably deeply embedded in the group and its mindset.

But there it is.

Thank you for helping me to understand what's wrong with Vinson/IWWB. Often people that post at this message board to defend their group actually end up indicting it through their statements.

Even though you have attempted to avoid directly answering questions enough has come through anyway to indict your group, its practices and teachings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2013 06:50PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 13, 2013 08:03PM

Rick, thank you for your opinion. It is obvious that we dont walk the same path and that is allright with me. You see things the way you see them, and the same goes for me.

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 13, 2013 08:22PM

RobinKorevaar:

Pretty much what I expected you to say.

We certainly don't walk the same path. Sadly, you have fallen onto the path of what seems to be a fairly classic "cult" group.

Hopefully you will work it out and get off that path one day.

Thanks for helping people to better understand Vinson/IWWB.

This is a public thread and people can read the posts here and decide for themselves what to think about Vinson/IWWB.

In my opinion, other than group members, people reading this thread will largely come to same conclusions that I did.

Going against Vinson/IWWB isn't going against God. Try to remember that when problems come up in the group.

All the best

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: Truth_Seeker_78 ()
Date: January 14, 2013 12:54AM

Rick, I wanted to thank you for your expert appraisal of the IWWB group. This provides some vindication for myself, especially since leaving the group of my own accord, and having waded into unknown waters as far as exposing this group for the benefit of other spiritual seekers who may feel led to become involved.

Sadly however, it seems that individuals such as Robin K are unable to be swayed by a "multitude of counsellors" here on the forum. I guess these terms are only applicable within the confines of Mike Vinson's IWWB group.

I only wish I had of known about the damaging aspects of this fellowship prior to becoming heavily involved and subsequently, spending 6 years in contact with Mike Vinson and his elders and being subject to the indoctrination of the group. The involvement with this group affected my family, my relationships and my spiritual psyche in an extremely negative manner.

Since leaving the group, my whole outlook on life has changed and my own family can attest that I have become a far more positive and balanced person.

I will continue to monitor the groups activities and post to social media sites as time allows.
Anyone interested in connecting can visit my YouTube channel for various other links etc: [www.youtube.com]

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