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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 12, 2013 12:39AM

Thank you for posting that post of mine...i wasnt really sure you would do that :)

To answer your question, i believe that everybody that teaches the truth's wich are found in Gods Word are right.

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 12, 2013 12:45AM

RobinKorevaar:

Who else other than the IWWB "teaches the truths, which are found in God's word"?

Please be very specific. Who else by name and location.

If there is no one else tham just say so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2013 01:06AM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 12, 2013 01:28AM

I cant say that Rick, honestly.

The only thing i can say is if we talk about religious denominations or other organisations, then i am not aware there are any that believe what we believe.
If we speak about individuals...lately some brothers from Africa found us and shared the same beliefs as we have. Last year a guy from England who shared our beliefs popped up...a couple from Belgium, a woman from the USA who has been gone for 5 years came back....thats it.

I kinda get the feeling that you think that truth equals large numbers of believers...if you believe something that hardly anyone else believes, then it cant be true ... am i right assuming that ?

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 12, 2013 02:19AM

RobinKorevaar:

You say, "some brothers from Africa" and other individuals in England, Belgium and the USA purportedly share and "believe what [you] believe", but no "religious demotions or organizations", which you are "aware" of share the same understanding of the bible and corresponding beliefs.

That would mean that the only organized group that "shared the same beliefs", which are correct per your understanding, is the IWWB.

So that means that you see the IWWB as the only organized group that has the truth according to your analysis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2013 02:21AM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: Truth_Seeker_78 ()
Date: January 12, 2013 04:51AM

Robin, you said: "I kinda get the feeling that you think that truth equals large numbers of believers...if you believe something that hardly anyone else believes, then it cant be true ... am I right assuming that?"

If you can be honest with yourself Robin, the doctrine of UR (Universal Reconciliation) is quite popular and particularly today, there are many internet based teachers and ministries which promote this doctrine. On Wikipedia, under the heading/article of "Universal Reconciliation," I read the following:

In 2008, the Russian Orthodox bishop Hilarion Alfeyev of Vienna, in his presentation at the First World Apostolic Congress of Divine Mercy (held in Rome in 2008), argued that God's mercy is so great that He does not condemn sinners to everlasting punishment.

Mike Vinson and IWWB do not stand out because of this one fact and nor do I believe or think that belief in UR qualifies one as a "cult."

What led me to believe IWWB is cult-like was the careful analysis of other teachings within the group, and more importantly, the behavior Mike and others within IWWB engage in. A small sample of these beliefs would be:

True believers do not vote and have no involvement with the government.
Birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Anniversaries and Valentines Day et al are "off the table" for a true disciple.
The teaching that true disciples are to be totally "hated of all men" including one's family and spouse, if need be.
Evil acts including child molestation, genocide, rapes, domestic violence and pedophilia are actually "God's wonderful works" towards his children and rather than being random, are specifically scripted by God.

With regards to "black and white thinking," I do not engage in that any longer. I understand that not everything has a yes or no answer and nor can it be decided by referencing a magic book which has all the answers. Life just isn't that simple. However, here is Mike Vinson stating just the opposite. He says:

"Christians don't compromise! There is no compromise! There is no such thing as grey areas, in Christ's way of doing things. It's all black and white, black and white." Here is a YouTube link to that audio: [youtu.be]

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: Truth_Seeker_78 ()
Date: January 12, 2013 05:11AM

Rick - Mitchell Kuhn, a prominent IWWB elder was asked that very question that you have posed to Robin. Mitchell's answer as to whether IWWB was the only true group out of the 7 billion people on the planet is as follows:

"...There is to be unity in the body and the body knows the Truth. Yes, there very well may be other faithful brothers somewhere in the world and they too will have the mind of Christ so we will all be in agreement..."

His answer is essentially that he is unaware of other people/groups out there but if there are, they too will believe and teach all of the same things that IWWB do.

Mike Vinson and his elders believe they alone have the true "one mind of Jesus Christ." As such, conformity and group think are key to maintaining their false unity. This belief that Mike and his elders possess the "one mind of Jesus Christ" also provides leverage when someone inside the group airs concern or a disagreement over a matter. Should this occur, Mike and his elders will then apply their black and white thinking and conclude that because this person doesn't agree, they must therefore be out of this one mind of Jesus Christ and as such, this individual now represents a threat to the group, and either must acquiesce to the demands of conformity or be subject to removal from the group.

Typically, Vinson uses his platform as a leader within the group to expose this person/individual and he will post out the confidential email exchange between the parties along with his commentary about how this person was led astray by Satan. Vinson often lies and distorts the issue in order to elevate himself and to denigrate the person who aired a concern. I have been subject to this and I have personal knowledge of at least 20 other people who have experienced the same.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 12, 2013 10:32AM

No, that means that i dont know. You dont have to draw conclusions for me wich suits you best to confirm what is allready in your mind.

I kinda get the feeling that you think that truth equals large numbers of believers...if you believe something that hardly anyone else believes, then it cant be true ... am i right assuming that ?

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 12, 2013 05:23PM

RobinKorevaar

You have said that according to the IWWB understanding of the bible everything and everyone is preordained. Nothing can be changed and no one will go to hell.

What exactly is the purpose of IWWB as a group?

Is it evangelism? Why would there be a need for evangelism if everything is already settled?

What does IWWB do as a group? Is there any need to do anything since everything is preordained?

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 12, 2013 08:05PM

Rick,

I can only let Scripture answer your questions...the purpose of the few choosen people, choosen by God, is to bring the rest of humanity in one line with God, trough what is called a lake of fire. Fire is spiritual...not literal flames.

Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

It goes beyond this post to show you in the som of Gods word how few these few are but to give you an idea...look at how many where saved from dead in the flood. I dont even know if you are in any way familliar with the Scripture. Scripture teach us that God never works with the many...allways with the few or even the individual.

Everybody's work will be judged and the few are being prepared for that task.

1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The saints are judged now

1Pe 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

The judged saints will be used to bring the rest of humanity in.

1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The chosen are few, they are judged now in this lifetime and they will be used to judge en will give mercy to the rest of humanity.

I give you Scripture so you see that i did not invent it

Taking ridicule, slander, false acqusations, being lied to, being prosecuted, ignored, called a cult, seen as arrogant ... all those things are only there to prepare the few for this task and teach us patience, teach us to love our enemies.

We run for that price Rick ... that is what we do.

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

I hope that is making clear what we do at IWWB Rick ... i dont know how else to say it.

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 12, 2013 08:36PM

RobinKorevaar:

You said, "The purpose of the few chosen people, chosen by God, is to bring the rest of humanity in one line with God".

But if everyone's status and future is already preordained and decided by God, why would God need the "chosen people" to do anything?

Is the preordained status of people somehow changed by the saints or chosen people who bring them into "one line with God"? I thought you said that everyone 's place and status was already set, predetermined and therefore cannot be changed.

Are you saying that there is a judgment and mercy process tied to the chosen saints, which somehow can affect and change the preordained status of people?

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