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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 09, 2013 07:17PM

rrmoderator:

What is meaningfull to one does not mean anything to another...and vice versa.

You probably are develloped enough to know that fraude and corruption are alive and kickin' where these so called "safequards" are in place, so i dont see what is meaningfull in the point you are trying to make. And i even have to guess what the point is you are trying to make....can you make the point you are trying to make more clear to me please ?

kind regards
Robin Korevaar

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 09, 2013 07:33PM

RobinKorevaar:

Really you made the point quite succinctly through your previous answers.

IWWB has no safeguards per either its governance or financial transparency.

If that "does not mean anything" to you that's your choice. But it would be very meaningful to most people interested in a safe and sound group or organization.

Safeguards are not a guarantee that nothing will ever go wrong and/or that the organization will somehow be faultless, but it's better than nothing.

That's the point.

Thanks for answering the questions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 07:34PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 09, 2013 09:27PM

rrmoderator

"But it would be very meaningful to most people interested in a safe and sound group or organization."

Can you tell me who these "most people" are ? I dont know of any people who would find this meaningfull within our "cult" so please enlighten me...you obviously know more then i do.

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 09, 2013 10:29PM

RobinKorevaar:

You say, "I dont know of any people who would find this meaningful within our 'cult'".

OK, I get that. No one in your group is seriously interested in meaningful accountability or any corresponding safeguards.

Fine. That's your choice.

But the overwhelming majority of people outside of your "cult" have not made that same choice and are instead interested and committed to such safeguards and assurances.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2013 10:32PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 09, 2013 10:52PM

rrmoderator,

And that the majority outside "my cult" feels that way is fine with me.

kind regards and glad i could be of some help

Robin Korevaar

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: Truth_Seeker_78 ()
Date: January 10, 2013 12:08AM

RobinKorevaar - thank you for the reply but unfortunately, it seems you did not address the concerns I raised excepting a few here and there about the "dominion over sin" quotes. They were not taken out of context and Vinson was not speaking of the future, he was referencing himself and talking to his disciples, letting them know that for them, "the day comes" when they too can gain dominion over sin. As Vinson said: "If Jesus Christ is in you, that's what's in you!"

It appears to me, that you are seeing this the way you wish to see it and I understand that to a point; It is hard to be totally objective about what a person says when there is emotional investment in a group such as IWWB. I see you did not address the issue of Mike kicking people out of the group when I showed you evidence of him admitting that very thing.

Further, here are direct quotes regarding financial transparency. As rrmoderator says, your admission is enough for an outsider to see that there is a lack of interest in safeguards however, these quotes should give anyone interested further clarification on how matters of finance are handled:

Quote
Mitchell Kuhn - IWWB elder
If we have the Spirit of God within us, then we do not need to have a highly structured system to collect and distribute money...
Quote
Mitchell Kuhn - IWWB elder
I also don't see any need to have ministers of the Gospel report the gifts they get, as I said on the recording...
Quote
Mitchell Kuhn - IWWB elder
If anyone has questions about a minister's management of the gifts he gets, then go to him directly and he should be honest about his financial situation. So much of what I thought before was rooted in fear and worry about the flesh. I was looking for a system of checks and balances to keep us on the narrow way, rather than relying on the Spirit of God to make us act as one body...
Quote
Mitchell Kuhn - IWWB elder
If we are going to be unified, it will not be by any physical systems or structure we set up. The mind of Christ in us will keep us unified.

The above quotes were taken from here: [www.aionios.com]

From what I understand, David Turnbull, a now "former" IWWB elder has left (or was removed?) [from] the group because he was pushing for transparency and for safeguards. Vinson did what he always does in that he publicly gave his side of the argument and flamed Turnbull, released his (Turnbull's) emails and decided the matter before it was aired to the "laity."
Perhaps you can shed some light on what went down RobinKorevaar?

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 10, 2013 11:54AM

Again you try to paint a picture "truth" seeker. You have no clue who i am...you dont know me and yet you have your pre-set thoughts about me. I cant be totally objective...i have an emotional investment..you are full of speculation.

I have no clue who you are...why cant you log in or sign with your real name ?

Money is a non issue among us ... i think you know that. David and Mitch studied the topic and had the impression an organised money system had to be implemented. When this was brought under a multitude of counsellors it became clear that this was not the Scriptural way to go. Mitch returned from his way and David didnt and left. Mike decided nothing on his own...that is not how things work among us.

Nobody involved sees the need for transparancy and safeguards becos we trust eachother. There hardly is anything going on to be transparant about. If we who are directly involved dont care, then why do you, who obviously want nothing to do with us, make such a point of it ? Dont you have a life ?

If you are so concerned...maybe you should visit Mike Vinson and have a look around. Im sure you will be wellcomed with a warm word and a hot cup of coffee.

I hope this is of some help

kind regards
Robin Korevaar

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 10, 2013 06:18PM

RobinKorevaar:

You say, "Nobody involved sees the need for transparency and safeguards because we trust each other". And you say that "money is a non issue for us".

Fine. That's your choice.

You said, ".i have an emotional investment".

Many people involved in controversial groups that have such an emotional investment choose to ignore problems in their group rather than face the real possibility that something is wrong.

"We who are directly involved don't care why do you"?

This is a public message board, which features discussion about controversial groups and movements, some that have been called "cults" A common theme in destructive groups that abuse people is the lack of meaningful accountability and financial transparency. Questions are frequently raised about this to better understand if a group has meaningful safeguards. This why I asked the questions, which you answered. Based upon your posted answers on this thread you have established that Mike Vinson and IWWB have no such accountability and/or safeguards. That is not "speculation".

"have a look around".

Sorry, but I am not interested in the group personally only professionally on this thread, which you chose to post on. Based upon your blunt answers there is no need to ask further questions.

FYI -- "rrmoderator" features my initials, which are RR for Rick Ross.

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: RobinKorevaar ()
Date: January 10, 2013 07:18PM

Rick,

We warn against all these money hungry wolves in the christian world.

Thank you for letting us have the choice to do the things we do in the way we seem it good. I agree with you that in many controversial groups there is emotional attachement and i can only speak for myself that for me that is not the case.

I think you have a meaningfull messageboard and i hope you will be used to prevent people to be involved in those destructive groups you mentioned.

kind regards
Robin

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Re: Mike Vinson and IWWB - cult alert
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: January 10, 2013 07:36PM

RobinKorevaar:

Thank you.

You said that you had an "emotional investment" in the Mike Vinson and IWWB group.

Are you now contradicting yourself?

Apparently people posting at this message board think that the IWWB is a destructive group. And your answers to the questions I asked on this thread did nothing to demonstrate otherwise. What your answers actually seemed to illustrate, is that due to your admitted emotional investment in the group, you are willing to trust Vinson and don't care about the typical safeguards most people would expect in an organization.

People that post at this message board to defend their various groups and leaders typically admit that there are "wolves" out there and applaud comments about "those destructive groups." However, the same people often refuse to recognize what's wrong with their own group or leader and ignore the warning signs, such as no meaningful safeguards to insure accountability.

In my opinion, based upon your posts and others on this thread, it appears to me that Vinson may be one of the "wolves" and the IWWB one of "those destructive groups".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2013 07:39PM by rrmoderator.

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