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Re: Nicole Grace, Kundalini, IDS - Integrated Development Strategies
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: October 11, 2015 10:46PM

Fredrick Lenze was considered a notorious "cult" leader and reportedly hurt many people.

See []

Lenz died from a drug overdose some years ago.

See []

Here are some basic warning signs to watch for that may be helpful.

Some cults may be benign, but most are harmful and exploit people.

See []

This book explains the modern history of destructive cults, offers assessment tools and coping strategies.

It is not in your strategic interest to be confrontational and act before educating yourself. The book offers several approaches that may prove useful.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2015 10:49PM by rrmoderator.

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Re: Nicole Grace, Kundalini, IDS - Integrated Development Strategies
Posted by: ohgreatfoot ()
Date: October 14, 2015 08:03AM

For a quick summary on understanding the very real, unmet needs and mindset of people who join cults, please consider the concept of Kinship.

A sense of belonging is in the middle stage of the ego developmental structure. If one doesn't have a sense of tribe, or family, one remains developmentally stuck and not mature. Sometimes, for example, a person may be 'unacceptably' homosexual, transgendered, atheist, and so on. They may feel coerced by family, or society, to mask their fundamental natures. So they need to seek belonging elsewhere, where they can live in peace and be true to themselves. Might this lead them into extremes? Yes. It's all about balance. Don't throw reason out the door except while brainstorming. Never while decision making.

When that sense of belonging is a spiritual angst, folks who connection, kin, will become open to cults, because this belonging finally grounds them in the world, even if it's a skewed version of reality. It's so uncomfortable to be a misfit. It's so lonely. A materialistic company is also a cult - I participated in many boiler-room start-ups full of opportunistic youth strung along by a slick CEOs that had nothing to do with Lenz or Buddhism or self-improvement. Cults are everywhere. We are constantly being bamboozled by profit-motivated vultures.

I think, in a nutshell, that my late beloved teacher Lenz started with good intentions, took drugs, got high on power, and lost his mind. As he took drugs and lost his mind, he may have made some tragic choices. I wasn't involved in any of those and didn't see them from my perspective, but all the testimony points to 'where there's smoke, there must be fire.' He agonized over his choices in his lecture on Shakespeare's Hamlet. All this reading I've done makes me so sad.

If your friend is with Grace, you don't want to pull the ground up from under her feet and take sides. But if you can make it in as a guest to observe Grace's state of mind, it might help. I know she's a purist and would never take drugs. She is seriously puritanical about what she puts in her body. But sometimes even the most sober of people can become unstable when they begin to discover the extent to which their beliefs and minds have been conditioned. It's a dark night of the soul. I suspect that if Kundalini came across this realization, she would process it and modify her teachings accordingly to 'first, do no harm.'

I am profoundly grateful for our constitutionally protected right to religious freedom that allowed me to take whatever risks I deemed fit, and to take responsibility for my choices as an adult, and to my teachers. I'm also profoundly grateful that I wasn't deemed 'attractive' enough, per allegations, to have to learn about the darker side of things firsthand. Reading it has been difficult enough, I can't imagine. Healing to those who need it.

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The Frederick Lenz Foundation - Legacy Lives
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 14, 2015 09:36PM

Information about Frederick Lenz, aka 'Zen Master Rama' in Cult Education Institute archives.


Lenz's own guru was Sri Chinmoy, who had a troubled career - to say the very least. []

Here is an article about Lenz from Wired magazine.


A very small excerpt.


Lenz's small band of believers searched for recruits on college campuses throughout the nation. One campaign involved 100 disciples distributing 4,000 posters and 100,000 promotional newsletters in California alone. Newcomers were invited to meditation sessions where, in an upper-octave monotone, Lenz promised to take them into the "light."

Lenz didn't accept just anyone. He was interested only in bright, diligent, presentable followers, so he required people to fill out lengthy applications - with photos attached. (Typical question: "Do you hear voices, or do you communicate with nonphysical beings?") Those who made the cut were taught what Lenz called American Buddhism, which included "what matters: making money."

Lenz had the foresight to recognize that computer programming for mainstream institutions, including Wall Street banks, held far more potential than, say, street-corner flower sales. He urged his flock to learn the basics of programming at Computer Learning Centers. Lenz said computer training was integral to practicing Buddhism; he insisted that writing code is like doing yoga, that it "puts you in a very high place."

"It was quite a radical thing to take people who were used to eating granola and send them down to Wall Street," recalls William Arntz, who was a Lenz student for 12 years, until 1994. "He said it was a warrior's task to go down there. He said the good thing about programming was that you can see how clear you are by how good your code works."

"In a lot of ways," says a current follower who, like several others, declined to be identified, "your computer career became a vehicle for studying Buddhism."

Lenz was certainly right about one thing: the shortage of skilled programmers in the early '80s. Coders like Arntz who were proficient in SQL or Fortran made $50 an hour, a rate that more than doubled by decade's end. From their earnings, followers would eventually pay Lenz a monthly tuition ranging from $125 for college students to $5,000 for the highest earners. Some would fork over as much as $1,000 to have dinner with the man who clued them in on everything from what to wear (Armani evoked authority, he said, while Calvin Klein was for wimps) to where to live (he endorsed certain "power" centers, like Westchester County in suburban New York).

Some disgruntled members charged Lenz with being a drug-ingesting charlatan.

Invoking a theme from Carlos Castaneda, Lenz told followers that their paths would be smoother if they made themselves "inaccessible" to outsiders who might drain their energy. That meant creating an elaborate shield to conceal their physical whereabouts: relying on post-office boxes, hiding behind email. Buying into the Lenz trip often meant moving every six months or so - whenever he requested it - and acquiring no more material goods than you could stuff in a car. It appeared that he mistrusted not only outsiders but his own students as well.

"This was a man who made you sign an eight-page form if you went out with him on a date," says a lapsed follower now living in the New York area. Lenz warned students that the backlash for leaving the group included personal tragedies like cancer and fatal car crashes.



The Lenzies often did respectable work, but not always. "I was one of the first people to give computer training, and I had only one year of data processing," recalls former member Mark Lurtsema. "Let's put it this way: Those courses were not college level." In the Consultants' and Contractors' Newsletter, whose readership includes managers who hire computer programmers in and around New York City, editor Wendy Vandame frequently reported on the impact of unseasoned Lenz followers at places like Nynex and Deutsche Bank. She estimates that, from about 1987 to 1994, Lenz's people caused millions of dollars in business losses in the New York metropolitan area, the result of missed project deadlines and spending on services that were inadequate or misrepresented.

Still, the Lenzies proliferated, in part because their technical training was backed with seminars about aggressive job hunting. One training document goes so far as to suggest, "Have a friend using a pseudonym act as your reference person."

Corboy note: The Buddhist precepts warn against deceit.


Lenz died from an overdose of pills, his girlfriend in a coma beside him. She survived. and dog drugged beside him.



Lenz Dies On Drugs

150 sedative pills in guru

The New York Post/April 16, 1998

Yuppie guru Frederick Lenz -- whose body was found floating in the waters off his Long Island mansion --fell off his dock after taking more than 150 phenobarbitol tablets, it was reported yesterday.
Suffolk County Police, awaiting toxological tests that could take up to two months, declined to comment on the report in the Three Village Herald, which also said Lenz's three dogs were drugged.

Lenz's female companion, identified by the weekly as lacy Brinn, 33, of Manhattan, was found in an upstairs bedroom about 2 a.m. Monday by Old Filed Police Sgt Bob Bell, who had noticed lights burning and the front door open.

"You get to know the residents, what they do. This --sometyhing just didn't look right," Bell told the newspaper about the death of Lenz, 48, at his Old Field estate.

The woman, who had ingested 50 drug tablets, told a somewhat incoherent tale of going down to the water with Lenz, and seeing him fall in on Easter Sunday morning, the paper reported.

"She was all bruised up," Bell was quoted as saying. " I guess that happened when she was trying to reach him, but he just floated away -- on his back, she said."

Naighbors said multimillionaire Lenz did not have a boat, but would sometimes go down to the water with his three terriers to watch them swim.

Diving into Conscience Bay


Upstairs, the master bedroom was empty and all of the motion detectors that guarded the room had been turned off. Then, in one of the guest bedrooms, police spied a fully dressed woman lying on a bed, unconscious. Police tried to rouse her, but she was incoherent. By her side was a picture of a man and another of a dog. In another room were two dogs, stiff but breathing.

Searching the grounds, one officer followed a narrow path down to a pier on the water. Thin metal rails guided walkers on the path; one of them was bent and broken. Police called in divers who, 10 hours later, pulled a man's body from the water. He was dressed in a suit and tie. Around his neck was a dog collar with a dangling rabies vaccination tag.

The man was Frederick Lenz, better known to the world as the New Age guru Zen Master Rama; the woman, Brinn Lacey, one of his devoted followers. Two nights before, in a suicide pact, the pair had drugged the dogs with Phenobarbital, downed fistfuls of Valium (at least 150 pills by Lenz alone) and stepped off the pier. By some miracle, Lacey and the dogs survived; Lenz did not. Lacey wrote in a note the police found by her side: We all tried to go too the other world last night, and only Rama made it..."

Money released by this tormented chain of cause and effect has been used to create the Frederick Lenz Foundation.




Vast Sky brings together the principals from Big Mind (Dennis Genpo Merzel Roshi)

Integral Institute (Ken Wilber) and Peacemaker Circle (Roshi Bernie Glassman) in a joint effort to "use the wisdom of the Buddhadharma, combined with the most effective technology available, to advance every conceivable area of our society towards a more awakened approach to life." It is the object of Vast Sky to change the way America views spirituality so as to affect and impact the way society views religion, educates its children, approaches politics, conducts its business, and cares for the elderly, the homeless and the poor, as well as the way Americans relate to other nations, especially those which are different from our nation. By impacting the level of consciousness of America’s public officials and public servants, the Vast Sky project seeks a transformation through the instruments of technology and mass media in the way Americans view these important matters critical to our nation’s well being.


Dennis Merzel Genpo has had a controversial career.


Ken Wilber endorsed a series of troubled teachers, most notoriously
Adi Da, Andrew Cohen and Marc Gafni.


Ken Wilber: Would You Buy a Used Guru from This Guy?

Da Free John (Adi Da)




David C Lane wrote this critique in 1996 before KW went on to endorse
the notoriously cruel Andrew Cohen, and then after that, Marc Gafni,
Genpo (Roshi) Merzel, etc.


This hyper-inflationary quality [If this seems a bit harsh, just read his endorsements of Da] to his work naturally makes it
difficult for more skeptically minded readers to accept his
speculations, especially when he travels into regions of the
psychic, subtle, and causal.

In part one we saw how Wilber grossly over-estimated the power and
status of Da Free John (oops, Franklin Jones, now Adi Da).

recently, after about 10 years of keeping relatively silent on the
subject, Wilber has gone public on the World Wide Web and attempted
to soften his endorsement of the Big Boy from Fiji. It is a rather
lame retraction at that, since Wilber does not acknowledge or admit
the extent to which Da is a real "fuck-up" (Wilber's words, not
mine). Indeed, Wilber just doesn't seem to "get it" about why so
many of his readers are turned off by his praise of the
one-time California guru from New York.

When it comes to guru appraisements, Wilber is just plain naive. He
is as gullible as the rest of us and given his track record with Da
perhaps more so.

What is perhaps so worrisome about all of this, of course, is that
Wilber does not show the kind of level-headed discrimination that is
necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff. It would be one
thing to admit to a bit of "greenness" (e.g., "Hey, I am a sucker
when it comes to Perfect Masters
"), but it is quite another to pose
like you are a seasoned veteran of the guru wars.

Ken Wilber's paen of praise to Rude Boy Gurus

When Wilber encountered criticism from his supporters in 2006, he wrote the
Wyatt Earpy document. []

A humorous satire on Rude Boy Gurus

Wilber and Marc Gafni



Gafni's track record



Wilber has recently endorsed yet another guru named Trivedi. Persons who appreciated
Wilber's earlier books have expressed concern.

Has Ken Wilber Jumped the Shark?


Wilber's Integral Institute





Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2015 10:54PM by corboy.

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Re: Nicole Grace, Kundalini, IDS - Integrated Development Strategies
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: October 14, 2015 11:18PM


Why are you here?

You seem to be an apologist for Frederick Lenz, who was a deeply destructive and notorious purported cult leader.

You are offering terrible advice here and engaging in victim bashing. People that join cults most often are tricked and trapped by the group through a process of deception and manipulation used to gain undue influence.

Please don't waste space here apologizing for your "beloved teacher" who historically is known as little more than a con man who exploited people for free labor and cash.

It seems to me that you never sorted out your experience with Lenz and are still somewhat programmed by your association with him.

See []

This book can be helpful for you to get things in perspective and sort through what happened to you in the Lenz group.

If you cannot do that you are not in the position to help anyone affected by a cult-like group and certainly in no position whatsoever to give advice.

Help yourself first.

FYI--religious freedom under the First Amendment gives people the right to believe whatever thy want, but that does not include doing whatever they wish in the name of those beliefs.

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Re: Nicole Grace, Kundalini, IDS - Integrated Development Strategies
Posted by: ohgreatfoot ()
Date: October 15, 2015 02:30AM

Why am I here? I stumbled across this thread in a search for Yogi Bhajan's cult. I found all this stuff on Lenz. Like I said, I was surprised, and it made me sad, and I'm not apologizing for him - what good would that do anyway? I have nothing to do with his actions. And how can you read that from my words? Just because I can look at someone who hurt others with compassion, and am not compelled to hate and jump on bandwagons to feel better, doesn't mean that I haven't processed my experience and healed from it.

Or perhaps you aren't interested in the whole truth, only the people that agree? In that case who are you serving?

I gave excellent advice. Cult being short for Culture, I have belonged to a number of cults. My ethnic, extended family. My Catholic Church. A Buddhist Cult. A Vedanta Cult. A Shamanic Cult. Lenz's Cult. Grace's Cult. Some Fortune 500 company cults. And more.

Cults seduce and control via providing a sense of Kin. Kinship. Fictive Kinship in many cases. A sense of belonging. Ask the world experts on terrorism and mind control. Not the armchair psychologists who study this from the outside from 9-5 white-collar worldview. I don't know about Rick Ross, but he doesn't seem to be Anne Speckhard. That's my standard on people who understand cults. Look her up.

So I was on here to read about Bhajan, stumbled across this thread, and tried to help. And,TWO people attacked when I shared what I knew. I'm attacked - called an apologist - accused of not having understood my experience, etc - discredited, effectively (hey - isn't that an influencing/controlling technique? wow, the pot calling the kettle black?) Why am I thus greeted less than respectfully? Because I'm not tooting the partly line? Because I wasn't angry or hostile or frightened or regretful or hateful?

Everyone in this media culture being influenced for profit purposes. The moderator tried to end this thread with a plug for Rick Ross's book. Are you using this site, or is it using you?

I guess I'll find out by who gets triggered by this message or if its posted at all.

I always want to know the whole truth. This means hearing all perspectives and applying discernment. And also, seeing and not taking crap from any more manipulators, thanks very much.

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Re: Nicole Grace, Kundalini, IDS - Integrated Development Strategies
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: October 15, 2015 04:16AM


You are a "cult hopper" jumping from one cult group to another because you never processed and unpacked your experience in any meaningful way.

You are a case example to anyone reading this thread of why people must educate themselves very specifically about cults as part of the process of recovery after leaving a cult.

No one here is expressing "hate," but rather compassion for the victims of Lenz and other con men like him that exploit and hurt people.

Your analysis of "kin" having something to do with cults is wrong and a false analogy.

See []

There is a nucleus for the definition of a destructive cult, which was defined by psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton in his paper "Cult Formation" published at Harvard.

Certain psychological themes which recur in these various historical contexts also arise in the study of cults. Cults can be identified by three characteristics:

1. a charismatic leader who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose their power;

2.a process I call coercive persuasion or thought reform;

3.economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.
In my opinion the Lenz group, 3HO, very probably your "Buddhist Cult" if what was Soka Gakkai. perhaps your "Vedanta Cult," "Shamanic Cult" and "Grace's Cult" may fit this core definition.

But not the Roman Catholic Church or Fortune 500 companies.

Again, you are wrong, offering uninformed and misleading advice and misinformation. What you need to do is some serious self-education.

Your rather ridiculous suggestion that everyone and anyone in any type of culture is somehow in a cult is utter nonsense.

If you really want to know the truth and develop discernment do some serious research and reading on the subject.

Read psychologist Margaret Singer's "Cults in Our Midst" or the previously suggested book "Cults Inside Out." You also might read "Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism" by Lifton to understand how cult manipulation really works.

Learn and be informed before offering advice.

There is no cult here and no manipulation. This message board is transparent and I am not even posting anonymously. You attempting to somehow manipulate the focus and attack people here for criticizing you and your ignorance is ridiculous.

This board is free and people can come and go as they wish. Most never even disclose who they are or any identifying personal information.

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Some input from two other members
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 15, 2015 04:57AM

People are free to choose what projects they wish.

However, it is always wise to do consumer research beforehand.

We know to look up the credentials of whoever we hire to repair our computers.

It is just as important to do a background check before letting someone get inside our heads.

Some information from Walter1963

Walter1963 was knowledgeable about various groups and methods. He
tells of his own situation here.


Walter's concerns about Wilber and Integral related projects.


All of Walter's earlier posts here.


Contributions from another member, The Anticult


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Re: Nicole Grace, Kundalini, IDS - Integrated Development Strategies
Posted by: ohgreatfoot ()
Date: October 21, 2015 07:46AM

You can try to discredit me and call me names and define my experience according to your strange perceptions, but if you actually go back and READ what I freaking WROTE you might REALIZE that you didn't HEAR what I said. Labelling me a cult-hopper and discrediting me by all this bs and lecturing me may work for the people who pay you, but not me. And if you erase every single thing I say that contradicts your point of view, I will find a way to make my voice heard, because now you're really starting to make me angry. I was just trying to help, and you troll me. Go back to school. Learn some manners and some critical thinking. Sales and manipulation doesn't work on everyone.

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Re: The Frederick Lenz Foundation - Legacy Lives
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 24, 2015 10:17PM

Thoughts on money.

Excerpts. The article deserves to be read in full.

Sex Scandals, Zen Teachers, and the Western Zen Dharma

February 11, 2011 by James Ford


The way Zen came west, through individual teachers with limited supervision, and then establishing centers that are more or less isolated from each other has created a cultish system. That’s the problem, aggravated, of course, by the inflated language of transmission. I’ve explored both of these issues before.

But this is a historical anomaly, being corrected by the expansion of Zen in the West and the constantly increasing number of teachers, domestic and imported.

I’m confident we are also at the edge of a time where people are no longer dependent upon keeping a relationship with a specific teacher or giving up the practice



Merzel Roshi seems to have a bit firmer control of his organization even in the midst of his own firestorm. While “disrobing” and resigning from the larger White Plum lineage community to which he had belonged, he seems to have appointed the vice-abbot for what appears to be only a nominally separated Kanzeon Zen Center. However he appears to have decided to continue using the Zen title roshi. The shove to push of his reformations seem to be summarizable in the statement “Roshi will not be teaching at the Zen Center for an indefinite period of time.” His strategy appears to be to separate himself from the principal organization to which he has any accountability, the White Plum, and to then lay low for a bit…

His credibility among the mainstream of Zen teachers has long been strained. I’ve felt uncomfortable with his accepting money from the Frederick Lenz Foundation, an organization that exists to purchase a revisionist view of the late and extremely notorious cult leader who operated under the self-proclaimed style “Zen Master Rama.” The truth is a number of Zen folk have accepted their money. And, it could be argued the only difference between accepting money from the Lenz Foundation and the Rockefeller Foundation is time from when the scoundrel who started it died. However, I then found that Merzel has gone beyond taking dirty money to pretending that Lenz was some kind of Zen teacher. This is amazing and hard to excuse from someone who is supposed to be a Zen teacher.

More thoughts.


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Re: Nicole Grace, Kundalini, IDS - Integrated Development Strategies
Posted by: Misstyk ()
Date: November 18, 2015 08:17AM

I haven't heard of this Nicole Grace. But I know a few things about Bhutanese Buddhism. It's known as the form of Vajrayana that's the most exploitive of women, the Drukpa Kagyu school, the style of Vajrayana introduced and practiced by Padmasambhava, who was eventually expelled from Tibet, according to some scholars. Though it was outlawed in the 1960's, Bhutanese monks continue the practice of taking 12-year-old to 14-year-old girls from their families under the guise of declaring the girls a "Buddhamothers" (euphemism for "consort", to serve as temple whores), and forcing them to live in the monastery and be used for sex rituals, and to help the monks practice and perfect the tantric technique of retaining the semen during sex. After the girls have two children (due to errors in the monks' technique, haha), they're "retired", and a new child is recruited.

Anyone palming this tradition off as part of a Bodhisattva path couldn't possibly be a true Bodhisattva or have any real-world understanding of compassion, IMO. Beware people who whitewash traditions based on exploitation and the callous inflicting of suffering on others.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2015 08:37AM by Misstyk.

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