Last night I was thinking on things having to do with Prabhupada and ISKCON history and something occurred to me; allow me to ask of it here, please.

Srila Prabhupada said in his books that monarchy with a righteous king is the best government system and said that American democracy is "demon-crazy." So, why did he set up the GBC to adopt a democratic system with a chairman and voting system? If a theocratic monarchy with a righteous leader/king is the best government system, and if democracy is demon-crazy, then why would the GBC itself be using a democratic system of government?

If anybody who is reading this can get back with me with a good explanation/answer for this question, then please get back with me via this message board. All glories!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2011 11:38PM by zeuszor.

The best explanation I can think of is this: the GBC (ostensibly) uses democratic procedures in its internal political workings, but entry into office in the GBC itself is not democratically voted upon through a popular vote of ISKCON membership. Only the GBC decides who gets to be part of the GBC, basically. I also believe that GBC members are in lifetime positions.

[en.wikipedia.org]

And ostensibly they'd be operating under the authority of under guru, shastra, and sadhu in voting new GBC members in. They operate collectively as ISKCON's central authority figure.

That's the best way I can figure it. Thoughts?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2011 03:21AM by zeuszor.

Somebody gave me a really good answer to this question yesterday, and I'll write of it here tomorrow as well. It was very interesting.

For those of you who are reading, sorry I put this off till now. Been busy.

So the answer/explanation I got was this: 1) ISKCON in this country is obligated by law to operate democratically in many of their parliamentary and administrative procedures. It's for legal reasons, basically. They have to have a certain administrative system (ostensibly, anyway) and make their records open to the public and to legal scrutiny by law in order to maintain their tax-exempt status. 2) Another part of it has to do with the alleged changing (or even fabrication) of Prabhupada's writings and actual spoken words over time, by folks like Jayadvaita Swami and others. They could say that Prabhupada said this, that, or whatever, and it's being done by a group of GBC people who have a shared interest in maintaining control over ISKCON and its members. Manipulating people through fear, paranoia, etc.
In other words, it's been so long and that stuff has been tampered with so much, who really knows what Prabhupada did and didn't say anymore? They can fake tapes, manipulate manuscripts, and all that...and already have, too.

[bookchanges.com]

Does this make sense to anybody? Does me. But I'd like to hear others' perspectives on this too.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2011 07:53AM by zeuszor.

For a few months some years ago, I was living as a bhakta in the San Diego ISKCON temple (it's hard for me to see myself in that role now) and I used to see and have the association of Dravida and Badri Narayan every day. Badri once gave me a very nice chadar that I still have and use in the wintertime. I have met and had the association of some of the BBT people who are allegedly responsible for the editing and altering of S.P.'s written and spoken words.

Prajapati dasa (Prabhupada's "theologician") is a friend of mine to this day, and I have other friends and acquaintances who have been members of ISKCON for many years, since before I was born. He mailed me some nice tulasi seeds just the other week, P.J. did. I used to be a "fringie" type for a long time, but hang out with them less and less these days.

It's all very disheartening to me, thinking through all of this stuff. I am deeply saddened by what these rascals did to S.P. They surrounded him, and then they isolated him, and some say that they ultimately killed him.

But hey, it's a cult. What did I expect?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2011 08:24PM by zeuszor.

(Somber)

You are fortunate that you remained a friend on the sidelines. Early in the 1970s in Laguna Beach, some very dangerous and deadly stuff went down between Krishnas and others who got into drugs smuggling. This is described by Nuri Muster in her book, Betrayal of the Spirit.

ISKON

It was more than a cult. It acquired vast wealth.

when a leader becomes old, frail, has vast wealth and power but must relay on an entourage, he or she risks becoming a prisoner of that same entourage.

Younger males, especially, become ruthless and competative when the long time alpha male begins to falter.

Texts were altered in another influential guru led group. Over in a thread discussing Yognananda and Self Realization Fellowship, Tormed describes and analyses how Yogananda's text Autobiography of a Yogi-initially a text that fostered seeking/craving and submissiveness, was altered after his death by the SRF.

[oaks.nvg.org]

Quote

Information about SRF's quiet concealment of Yogananda's actual beliefs concerning 'ordinary people' is described here

[forum.culteducation.com]

And on a splendid website, there is an abundance of material demontrating how important it is to examine just how consistent a guru was during his lifetime and to compare first editions of key texts and whether and what kinds of changes the guru's successors made to those same texts.

Quote

The many editions of Yogananda's autobiography are reported to have sold over a million copies, translated into more than 19 languages.

As for footnotes, I have incorporated almost all from the 1946 edition. Later SRF editions have substantial additions to the footnotes, and more pictures and captions. I have compared with both the 1971 and 1981 editions.

❖ Later editions seem to have been "tampered with" somewhat by SRF by additions and changes. An example: "Never admit that you live by the power of food and not by the power of God!" in the first edition became "Never believe that you live . . ." in the 12th edition [Ha 88]. Others have studied these changes and additions. There are many others.

[oaks.nvg.org]

Chapter heading is--Twarting a Healthy Ego is Not Good.

Again, z, you are fortunate that you stayed on the sidelines, had good friendships. To see what you may have escaped, get and read Nori Muster's book, Betrayal of the Spirit.

Quote

Good and staunch rationalism is much due to normal egohood development. Egohood is to be developed in stages and along very many alleys of man. It allows for rational handling, rational coping, and much life goes down the drains for lack of it. The effects of stunting normal and sane egohood are not health-promoting, and may foster creeps and devoted-looking ones.

Accordingly, it is likely to be better to defend sane egohood development against massive demands on obedience, "god-servile humility" that serves tyranny, and worse. You had better bulwark against insane leader attacks against sane egohood development. In totalitarian, over-authoritarian environments like severe cults they find it fit to molest sound ego development in obedient followers. Forewarned is forearmed. In cultish settings such attacks serve submission or obedience.

You may find lots of guru concepts, like "sacred, holy, and great" not quite ideal anyhow - whereas being skilful, updated and thrifty balancing is top help towards enlightenment if things go well.

It is far better to clarify one's concepts than to switch to and fro between the self- contraditions that seem persuasive or "impressive with the ladies" at the moment. After all, Yogananda talks against himself all too often. It backfires too.

Take home lesson is that this person established that there was plenty of unhealthy material in Yogananda's original teaching, long before SRF began to re-edit the stuff after Y died.

[oaks.nvg.org]

Sure, I am acquainted with NM, her past role in ISKCON, and her books. I've got a copy of Betrayal on my desk and have read it. Other good ones in my collection are Servant of the Lotus Feet, by Gabriel Brandis, and Oh, the Things I Learned! by Steven J. Gelberg. And of course, Monkey on a Stick. I never dabbled in SRF at all, and will look at those links, corboy. Thank you.

Also there's The American Children of Krsna by Daner, and The Dark Lord by Shinn. Those are good academic works, coming from a sociological/ethnographic perspective.

[surrealist.org]

A simple metaphor you have a brand new strong healthy fruit tree bearing good fruit it stands in an orchard With many other trees that are contaminated eventually the tree starts to produce rotten fruit at first it is unnoticeable But gradually the whole tree is taking over by other various forms of pollution eventually it tree dies. Its capacity its time span has been exhausted.

A new religious leader is born along with some of his accomplices with the purpose of making some religious reform the first reaction from the corrupt hypocritical establishment is criticisms and disbelief.

This small fraction of people start to generate a considerable size of followers these followers, converts that are infiltrated by people in power and with money for the first hundred years it manages to survive original purity and leadership but then small inconsistencies start to set in because now it is becoming an establishment itself its potency is being eroded and it continues to do so until it is just an obscure part of the society to which it is attached although it carries on as a colossal extinct distorted empty monument.

The remnants of such are eventually putrefying and reinvented as a disgusting sub cult that creates a museum ghost like society of members whose evil founder leader is neither qualified and very deceitful this attracts all kinds of disgusting activities and subsequently seals the end of its final damnation the tree rots away and produces Poisonous fruit processed by demons remember a good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. Beware of false prophets, who come to you in false clothing, but inwardly they are imposters.