Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 23, 2012 10:17PM

Someone who works in a professional capacity sent me this.


Here's a link to the Guardian article about Tony Robbins' foot-blistering fiasco. The comments are well worth reading, especially the one from a Robbins acolyte:

From The Guardian--an article on the Tony Robbins 'Situation.'


The person also recalled an attempt by someone opportunistic to get access:


Someone who belongs to a club for qualified investors invited me to a special presentation. (A qualified investor is someone whose net worth equals at least one million dollars, and a lot of the people who belong to this particular club are also academics.)

The presenter turned out to be a Tony Robbins trainer, although that's not how she presented herself in her publicity packet or on her website.

She used her fairly decent professional credentials on her press packet, but during her intro she identified herself as a Robbins trainer and an NLP student.

Her presentation was a mishmash of common sense, invented data, and lame anecdotes.

She dodged all of the tough questions, and the economics professor I was sitting next to finally flat-out told her that her data did not support her assertions, thus what she was saying wasn't believable.

He'd asked her a very tough question earlier, so she had already attempted to invalidate him by commenting that "people named Fred always give me a tough time." (I'll bet).

Then she came to the end of her talk, and put up a slide of her price chart!! She had told us at the beginning she was "going to tell us about opportunities for continuing education," but blatantly selling your services is against the unspoken rules of the club, though not explicitly against the rules.

She said something like "Of course, very few people can afford $6000." Sadly, that's true in general but it's not true in a room full of qualified investors.

She kept pressing the point until someone finally said, "Look, the question isn't whether we have $7000, because we do, it's whether we'd give you $7000. I won't."

That was pretty funny, and she didn't seem to get it.

Then she said that even though the value of what she was offering was $6700, she'd let the first 3 people in for $895.

1 audience member said she was interested in signing up. The presenter kept pushing, and 1 more person said he might be interested. Then, nothing. She DROPPED THE PRICE to $595!!! Still nothing.

So one of her minions gave a testimonial!! (Yes, she brought several people with her to wait on her and bring her water during her talk. That is not club protocol. It reminded me of the way LGAT leaders work.)

The minion runs some sort of landscaping business and had had all kinds of problems. The presenter had bailed him out with good advice, and now his business is better than ever. He's so grateful, and doesn't even want to think about where his business would be without the presenter.

The presenter thanked him for his "spontaneous endorsement" and offered the $595 price again. No takers. Finally people just started talking to their neighbors or getting up to leave

Her presentation was terrible. All she did was talk about herself, ramble on with platitudes, and dodge questions.

She didn't seem to understand that she was in a room full of highly educated, wealthy, skeptical people who spend their days listening to presentations and then making high-stakes financial decisions based on the quality of those presentations.

. She was beyond self-centered; I can't even really explain it. She was clearly just there for her own benefit, and not ours.

She used many of the techniques TheAnticult, walter1963, and other posters have explained to us right here on the Rick Ross message board. It was painful to watch.

I was amazed at her nerve even to think she had something to offer this group. It was clear she just saw us as prey-- does she think people like being viewed that way?

Most people afterwards were disgusted and very turned-off.

This woman was clearly trying to start her career as a scammer. Once I got over my anger at being tricked

Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 23, 2012 11:06PM

Yes, that person above was a Robbins Clone, who was scammed by Robbins and took all his LGAT courses.
Then that person goes out and tried to scam others, using the same tech, but obviously doing it very badly.

They will simply lie about their net worth, or figure out a way to forge the paperwork if they can get away with it.
Anyone who has trained with Robbins, is essentially a professional liar.
They don't call them lies of course, they rationalize it, and call it persuasion or simply "believing in advance". They just lie continuously.

So anyone who has taken all of the Robbins courses, if you are wise you will not believe one word of their salespitch. Every claim must be proven with hard facts. Every single claim, as they will fabricate and lie without mercy.

Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 23, 2012 11:20PM

The comments on The Guardian site are interesting. There are some Robbins "volunteers" posting, who volunteered at Robbins seminars for 9 YEARS.
They worked for free to make Tony more millions of dollars for almost a decade of their life.

Its all just a big game for guys like Robbins.
Getting people to work for you for free, is a game to him. People are just objects to use.

The average person who falls under the spell of the hundreds of advanced techniques guys like Robbins use, are in great danger. They will work for free for him, they will literally do anything he asks of them.
They would not think twice of risking their life either.

Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 23, 2012 11:28PM

Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: dabcult ()
Date: July 26, 2012 03:22AM

Here is a link to one of my videos also listen to part 3

Tony Robbins is part of this cult and was authorise by the cult leader to give initiations (DIKSHA) in the name of the cult leader
who is a sinister character ......Kalki Bhagavan

As far as the recent burning of the feet
Thats very weird as TONY as conducted hundreds of those seminars with no problems
Maybee its the overconfidence and more money
at any cost it look like.

Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: mood: crisis ()
Date: July 11, 2014 02:32AM

The Anticult
They don't call them lies of course, they rationalize it, and call it persuasion or simply "believing in advance"

Believing in advance! Wow. I cannot quite recall when I've heard a greater abomination of bullsh*tting, giving even bullsh*tting a bad name. I'm going to have to file that one under "how to expertly foster your own capacity for ill-advised delusion."

As far as the recent burning of the feet
Thats very weird as TONY as conducted hundreds of those seminars with no problems
Maybee its the overconfidence and more money
at any cost it look like.

I've done both firewalking and a sweatlodge without issue, many years ago -- however, on both occasions I was with a small and intimate group of beloved friends, in which the only monetary profits involved were reasonable fees to vetted provisioners. (We were also all in our 20s or 30s at the time and quite physically fit.)

Cut to Tony Robbins taking on firewalking, and that self-proclaimed spiritual warrior (excuse me while I vomit a moment..) James Ray who was convicted of negligent homicide for the numerous people who died or required hospitalization following his sweatlodge, and it doesn't seem weird to me at all -- since precious little surely is/was being invested by either of these human parasites on any kind of expert supervision.

My disclaimer: while I did have a decent sweatlodge experience (firewalking was actually kind of "meh" in terms of having any significant realization.. yeah, you just walked across something you were naturally afraid to.. otay, now what), I would not recommend either of these or any other activities which require very specific knowledge in order to prevent their being dangerous, as what is to be gained through such activities can be obtained exponentially more safely by other means. (Editing just to note that I would compare the sweatlodge experience to something like a runner's high, or any other athletically induced "zone" experience, just with the added kick of being in a very intimate space with others at the time. This is nothing that can't be achieved, past the age of consent, with merely one other person on even a moderately warm summer's day, which I daresay is preferable on many levels to experiencing the same intimacy and trust with a bunch of strangers and potentially parasitic leadership figures.)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2014 02:58AM by mood: crisis.

Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: Gell1234 ()
Date: July 20, 2014 06:50PM

So what do you suggest other than nlp?

Re: Anthony Robbins UPW - very BAD experience
Posted by: mood: crisis ()
Date: July 21, 2014 07:56AM

So what do you suggest other than nlp?

For what?

Personally I would not suggest using or submitting yourself to anything like NLP, for any purposes at all that something like NLP might be utilized. I would certainly suggest educating oneself about NLP in order to become less vulnerable to its covert assault by snake oil salesmen the world over -- but doing so independent of the influence of any practitioners.

I recently reached out to someone particularly well known in the field of hypnosis, to ask his opinion on whether in order to rid oneself of residual post-hypnotic suggestion, receiving new hypnosis in a controlled setting might be a valid solution. I already felt otherwise, as this sounds like unnecessary layering to me, akin to "throwing good money after bad", but I was curious to see what he might say.

I was surprised that he wrote me back personally, although I did request as much in my email (maybe the one good thing I ever learned from Landmark, "be specific in your requests"). He told me in what I consider to have been some confidence, that I should stay away from anyone practicing NLP and hypnosis; that if I was already in communication with any (which I was/am not), that I should discontinue the communication immediately. He did not even seem to be discluding himself in the warning.

Was a most interesting bit of candor that I take to heart, especially considering the source.

So yeah. I suggest nothing.

WARNING! Anthony Robbins UPW - stay away at all costs
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 22, 2014 11:38PM

Very good advice to immediately and permanently stop any communication with anyone who practices overt NLP-Hypnosis for profit.
Especially anyone associated with the Tony Robbins companies, as they are constantly messing with your mind using very advanced techniques of persuasion.

Of course these days people are doing it COVERTLY so its difficult to know who is doing what, which is their point, to confuse you.
There is MASSIVE evidence of the dangers of NLP-hypnosis on this forum, just search those words and read up.
also search for Ericksonian Hypnosis, and conversational hypnosis.

and there is plenty anyone can do to free themselves from alleged post-hypnotic suggestions. First off, most of that stuff is lies and smoke and mirrors, they tell you they are doing _______ to you, but that is the suggestion, or a salespitch.
Its essential to not be superstitious or listen to the exaggerated bullshit.

For example, Richard Bandler will constantly claim he is doing all these things to your mind using covert language, but its mainly all bullshit, just designed to impress people, or make people think he is brilliant.

So remember they don't have some kind of "black magic" control over your mind, but they want you to think that they do.

There is a thread of how to get Byron Katie out of your mind, and it points to ways to do that, mainly the ideas of modifying how that person is imagined in your mind....

IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life forever

In terms of something useful, the "real" Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can help many people. But beware, many scammers now call New Wage and hypnotic sales junk "cognitive therapy" as it sounds more acceptable! So its a mind-field out there.

Some good books from the library would be...

Mind Over Mood by Dennis Greenberger, Christine A. Padesky
The Feeling Good Handbook by David D. Burns

Food for thought
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 25, 2014 03:05AM

Corboy note: one important rhetorical device is the implied syllogism, the term
for which is enthymeme.

Yet...if you put enthymeme into Google search alongside trance, or neurol


A small excerpt from the article. Take care to read the comments, too - its fun
to see the range of reations.


What they came up with was a kind of evolution of hypnotherapy—while classical hypnosis depends on techniques for putting patients into suggestive trances (even to the point of losing consciousness on command), NLP is much less heavy-handed: it’s a technique of layering subtle meaning into spoken or written language so that you can implant suggestions into a person’s unconscious mind without them knowing what you’re doing.

Richard Bandler, co-creator of NLP, in 2007. (Via Wikimedia Commons)

Though mainstream therapists rejected NLP as pseudoscientific nonsense (it has been officially peer reviewed and discredited as an intervention technique—lots more on that here), it nonetheless caught on. It was still the 1970s, and the Human Potential Movement was in full swing—and NLP was the new darling. Immediately building a publishing, speaking and training empire, by 1980 Bandler had made over $800,000 from his creation—he was even being called on to train corporate leaders, the army and the CIA. Self-help gurus like Tony Robbins used NLP techniques to become millionaires in the 1980s (Robbins now has an estimated net worth of $480 million). By the middle of the decade, NLP was such big business that lawsuits and wars had erupted over who had the rights to teach it, or even to use the term “NLP.”

But by that time, Bandler had bigger problems than copyright disputes: he was on trial for the alleged murder of prostitute Corine Christensen in November 1986. The prosecution claimed that Bandler had shot Christensen, 34, point-blank in the face with a .357 Magnum in a drug deal gone bad. According to the press at the time, Bandler had discovered an even better way to get people to like him than NLP—cocaine—and become embroiled in a far darker game, even, than mind control. A much-recommended investigation into the case published by Mother Jones in 1989 opens with these chilling lines:

In the morning Corine Christensen last snorted cocaine, she found herself, straw in hand, looking down the barrel of a .357 Magnum revolver. When the gun exploded, momentarily piercing the autumn stillness, it sent a single bullet on a diagonal path through her left nostril and into her brain.

Christensen slumped over her round oak dining table, bleeding onto its glass top, a loose-leaf notebook, and a slip of yellow memo paper on which she had scrawled, in red ink, DON’T KILL US ALL. Choking, she spit blood onto a wine goblet, a tequila bottle, and the shirt of the man who would be accused of her murder, then slid sideways off the chair and fell on her back. Within minutes she lay still.

As Christensen lay dying, two men left her rented town house in a working-class section of Santa Cruz, California. One was her former boyfriend, James Marino, an admitted cocaine dealer and convicted burglar. The other, Richard Bandler, was known internationally as the cofounder of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), a controversial approach to psychology and communication. About 12 hours later, on the evening of November 3, 1986, Richard Bandler was arrested and charged with the murder.

Bandler’s defense was, simply, that Marino had killed Christensen, not him. Many at the time alleged he used NLP techniques on the stand to escape conviction. Yet Bandler was also alleged to actually use a gun in NLP sessions in order to produce dramatic psychological changes in clients—a technique that was later mirrored by Hollywood in the movie Fight Club, in which Brad Pitt’s character pulls a gun on a gas station attendant and threatens to kill him if he doesn’t pursue his dreams in life. That was, many said, Bandler’s MO.

Whatever the truth of the matter, Bandler was indeed let off, and the story was quickly buried—I’ve never spoken to a student of NLP who’s ever heard of the murder case, I’ll note, and I’ve spoken to a lot. The case hardly impeded the growing popularity of NLP, however, which was now big business, working its way not only into the toolkit of psychotherapists but also into nearly every corner of the political and advertising worlds, having grown far beyond the single personage of Richard Bandler, though he continued (and continues) to command outrageous prices for NLP trainings throughout the world.

Today, the techniques of NLP and Ericksonian-style hypnotic writing can be readily seen in the world of Internet marketing, online get-rich-quick schemes and scams


How can I make sure nobody pulls this horseshit on me?

I’ve had all kinds of people attempt to “NLP” me into submission, including multiple people I’ve worked for over extended periods of time, and even people I’ve been in relationships with. Consequently, I’ve developed a pretty keen immune response to it. I’ve also studied its mechanics very closely, largely to resist the nonsense of said people. Here’s a few key methods I’ve picked up.

1. Be extremely wary of people copying your body language.

If you’re talking to somebody who may be into NLP, and you notice that they’re sitting in exactly the same way as you, or mirroring the way you have your hands, test them by making a few movements and seeing if they do the same thing. Skilled NLPers will be better at masking this than newer ones, but newer ones will always immediately copy the same movement. This is a good time to call people on their shit.

2. Move your eyes in random and unpredictable patterns.

Such NLP. So sociopathy. Wow.

This is freaking hilarious to do to troll NLPers. Especially in the initial stages of rapport induction, an NLP user will be paying incredibly close attention to your eyes. You may think it’s because they’re intensely interested in what you’re saying. They are, but not because they actually care about your thoughts: They’re watching your eye movements to see how you store and access information. In a few minutes, they’ll not only be able to tell when you’re lying or making something up, they’ll also be able to figure out what parts of your brain you’re using when you’re speaking, which can then lead them to be so clued in to what you’re thinking that they almost come across as having some kind of psychic insight into your innermost thoughts. A clever hack for this is just to randomly dart your eyes around—look up to the right, to the left, side to side, down… make it seem natural, but do it randomly and with no pattern. This will drive an NLP person *utterly nuts* because you’ll be throwing off their calibration.

3. Do not let anybody touch you.

This is pretty obvious and kind of goes without saying in general. But let’s say you’re having a conversation with somebody you know is into NLP, and you find yourself in a heightened emotional state—maybe you start laughing really hard, or get really angry, or something similar—and the person you’re talking to touches you while you’re in that state. They might, for instance, tap you on the shoulder. What just happened? They anchored you so that later, if they want to put you back into the state you were just in, they can (or so the wayward logic of NLP dictates) touch you in the same place. Just be like, oh hell no you did not.

4. Be wary of vague language.

One of the primary techniques that NLP took from Milton Erickson is the use of vague language to induce hypnotic trance. Erickson found that the more vague language is, the more it leads people into trance, because there is less that a person is liable to disagree with or react to. Alternately, more specific language will take a person out of trance. (Note Obama’s use of this specific technique in the “Change” campaign, a word so vague that anybody could read anything into it.)

5. Be wary of permissive language.

“Feel free to relax.” “You’re welcome to test drive this car if you like.” “You can enjoy this as much as you like.” Watch the f*k out for this. This was a major insight of pre-NLP hypnotists like Erickson: the best way to get somebody to do something, including going into a trance, is by allowing them to give you permission to do so. Because of this, skilled hypnotists will NEVER command you outright to do something—i.e. “Go into a trance.” They WILL say things like “Feel free to become as relaxed as you like.”

6. Be wary of gibberish.

Nonsense phrases like “As you release this feeling more and more you will find yourself moving into present alignment with the sound of your success more and more.” This kind of gibberish is the bread and butter of the pacing-and-leading phase of NLP; the hypnotist isn’t actually saying anything, they’re just trying to program your internal emotional states and move you towards where they want you to go. ALWAYS say “Can you be more specific about that” or “Can you explain exactly what you mean?” This does two things: it interrupts this whole technique, and it also forces the conversation into specific language, breaking the trance-inducing use of vague language we discussed in #4.

7. Read between the lines.

NLP people will consistently use language with hidden or layered meanings. For instance “Diet, nutrition and sleep with me are the most important things, don’t you think?” On the surface, if you heard this sentence quickly, it would seem like an obvious statement that you would probably agree with without much thought. Yes, of course diet, nutrition and sleep are important things, sure, and this person’s really into being healthy, that’s great. But what’s the layered-in message? “Diet, nutrition and sleep with me are the most important things, don’t you think?” Yep, and you just unconsciously agreed to it. Skilled NLPers can be incredibly subtle with this.

8. Watch your attention.

Be very careful about zoning out around NLP people—it’s an invitation to leap in with an unconscious cue. Here’s an example: An NLP user who was attempting to get me to write for his blog for free noticed I appeared not to be paying attention and was looking into the distance, and then started using the technique listed in #7 by talking about how he never has to pay for anything because media outlets send him review copies of books and albums for free. “Everything for free,” he began hissing at me. “I get everything. For. Free.” Obvious, no?

9. Don’t agree to anything.

If you find yourself being led to make a quick decision on something, and feel you’re being steered, leave the situation. Wait 24 hours before making any decisions, especially financial ones. Do NOT let yourself get swept up into making an emotional decision in the spur of the moment. Sales people are armed with NLP techniques specifically for engineering impulse buys. Don’t do it. Leave, and use your rational mind.

10. Trust your intuition.

And the foremost and primary rule: If your gut tells you somebody is fucking with you, or you feel uneasy around them, trust it. NLP people almost always seem “off,” dodgy, or like used car salesmen. Flee, or request they show you the respect of not applying NLP techniques when interacting with you.

Hopefully this short guide will be of assistance to you in resisting this annoying and pernicious modern form of black magic. Take it with you on your phone or a printout next time you’re at a used car sales lot, getting signed up for a gym membership, or watching a politician speak on TV. You’ll easily find yourself surprised how you allow yourself to notice more and more NLP techniques… more and more… don’t you think?

(For more on NLP, check out the book Introducing NLP by Joseph O’Connor or the immensely useful Neuro-Linguistic Programming for Dummies. As a bonus, here’s a great video breaking down the use of NLP techniques by media outlets on both sides of the political spectrum, from FOX News to Stephen Colbert. It gets a bit into Christian conspiracy thinking, but is VERY good information.)

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