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Malcolm Wesley WREST
Thank you Zeuszor...some beautiful lyrics there....and here is another "hymn" like number, from none other than Yusuf Islam....

[www.youtube.com]

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Stoic
I had a read up on the Straight Inc etc, the whole Child Gulag story.

One thing that is clear is that these outfits did not stop when they were exposed as simple torture camps run by unqualified sadistic entrepreneurs. Some were closed one day only to open under a new name in the same premises the next. And clones were constantly springing up as ex-'staffers' saw the economic opportunity in parents keen to lock their kids up and subject them to a brutal regime, in the name of 'curing' them of spurious ailments which were often no more than the usual teenage experimentation and rebellion.
The parents were manipulated through fear also in the advertising of the horrors of drugs that these gulags promoted.
Drug addiction itself is a problem, but it is generally a response to a deeper problem in the individual--a lack of something far more fundamental to a person.

Similarly, the bosses at the top are rarely brought to account, since they have been allowed to operate in the first place through graft with local politicians who were keen to chuck money at these outfits in exchange for 'dealing' with the intractable problem of kids who are constantly exhorted to be avid and dutiful consumers and yet can see no purpose to life in a society that seems designed to punish and exploit at every turn.
Straight Inc has morphed into the 'Drug Free America Foundation' run now by Sembler's wife.

[en.wikipedia.org]

How does this relate to McKay?

He doesn't need to hide, except from his critics--the graduates are right about that. He just needs to keep a lower profile, off the internet, for a while and he joins the ranks of Roberts and Anthony, free men who are staying under the radar for now.

His business model, which is fundamentally human exploitation, barely raises an eyebrow amongst the policy makers it is so common and when profitable, championed and used as a source of funding and support by those same policy makers.

McKay lacks the political clout of some of the bigger outfits, but I doubt he feels the need to hide in such a vast continent as Australia. He is just off-line because he is repeatedly shown up as the conman he is there.

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Apollo
I'd like to echo those sentiments. Kevin has challenged his father's lies on countless occasions.

Mal, what's your memories of Gary?

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Malcolm Wesley WREST
Why is that, Mal? You don't owe him, WE don't owe him any deference, in my opinion.

Hence, I must remain my rebelliously "deferential" self towards Kevin....with whom I can still recall sharing, far more amenable times in our youths.

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sWord
How do the Jesus Christians pay their bills?
Australia's welfare system is benign, and designed to enable you to survive with dignity if you have no vices. DM and his wife don't smoke and get most of their food and clothing from disciplined, regular and efficient dumpster-diving. I quite admire this way of surviving, so I can't criticise it.

Do they really get enough money from those silly books to feed everyone and to pay for all expenses like clothes and stuff?
Luxuries like running vehicles and overseas trips are offset by their saving on their welfare cheques/checks through the dumpster-diving. The 'silly books' sell for $1-$2 or more, depending on the skill of the salesperson. When I last looked it was possible to get more than $100 a day from the donations. This is entirely tax-free as it is cash and not banked.


How does Dave support himself if he doesn't sell books him self? If his wife is too sick to work at handing books out and Dave is too old or just wont do it then how do they pay for medical care and all?
He owns the books, and sells them to the distributors, I think for $0.20 or there-abouts. So if you get 100 books to distribute, he gets $20. (As far as I know based on information from 3 or 4 years ago). Australia is on a different planet to the US with regard to social welfare and medical expenses. Basically it's free. Dave probably gets a carer's pension as well as his, and her, welfare pension.
Better than the working poor in the US. Add his income from the books and CDs etc ....

Surely if they have not contributed to the system they don't suck out of the system. Would that be Christian? Would it be stealing almost?
They are not Christians. End of.

How about the kid that was in the group? Did he go to a state funded school yet the Jesus Christians don't contribute anything to the tax system or to society? I know his parents are some of the people that left the cult now but I am asking if the Jesus Christians use the system they refuse to contribute to.
Of course they suck from the system. DM learnt the justification from the CoG. The system is Egypt, and is there to be ripped off. It is not a sin to lie to the Government either. The Government is evil. New recruits who may have idealistic notions learn to accept the bad logic: easy gain and smiles from the people you've come to admire, with a sermon from Dave's hypnotic voice -- all these have a remarkable effect.

Do they vote? 'f Course not. Then you'd have to be on a roll, with an address

I'm interested in the money trail of this group. are they a registered charity who can take donations? if so don't they have to account for how the money is spent? How much do they sell the books for generally? I know it's said to be donation but what is the average they get I wonder?
No they're not registered, although I think one of them has registered for the Goods and Services tax. You don't have to report your earnings if you have a GST number...you can have one just in case.

As far as I know, the ordinary members don't get the welfare payment. Free food and clothing if you know how to do it, and they teach each other. More money to spend from the book-sales than the dole would give you, with none of the hassle.

I'd like to know as much as possible about how the funds are managed and how the Jesus Christians were able to pay for that fancy trip.
Funds are not 'managed' on paper. The fancy trip came from a damages case in the US. Google it. The lead up to the case went on for months.

I understood the plan was to forsake money and luxury and give all to help the poor people. How does a fancy trip on a luxury liner help poor folks? Did someone give the Jesus Christians a big gift and that's how they could buy the trip? It's incredible to me that Dave sells forsaking all money but has no trouble spending thousands on the group for a pretty pointless luxury and especially in these economic times when the average person can only afford to give less to charity if they are to keep their own households together. Charities are reporting serious shortfalls and now the noble money hating Jesus Christians take a trip that must have cost $25,000 +++. The poor need all the help they can get and the Jesus Christian judge and condemn others for the use of money for shallow reasons. It's quite hypocritical.
You're so right about the hypocrisy. But if an Apostle justifies it, what can you say....?

It sure would be cool if some remaining Jesus Christians could answer some questions without becoming defensive and hostile.
Even after they leave they're not likely to talk about it much for at least a decade. Much of the lifestyle is to be admired, and a lot of the mind-set endures. Hundreds of attitudes and opinions have to be discarded while others are maintained. It's a difficult process and there is also the social/friendship/camaraderie aspect to consider. Very few ex-members have been able to start talking on ex-forums immediately. Typically ex-members get into something else -- University or music or another cause, and they need to abandon the past.

Hope that helps ....

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zeuszor

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Apollo
I'd like to echo those sentiments. Kevin has challenged his father's lies on countless occasions.

Mal, what's your memories of Gary?

He also, whether he meant to or not, has also spread untruths about certain elements of his parents' past. But I won't beat that horse to death.

I think that Amused is likely one of Dave's brothers, actually.