Any organization run by a convicted paedophile immediately loses ALL credibility. Surely the Pardon's will not want to be associated with such an organization.

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rrmoderator
Is this why you are going on here?

Is it because of your relationship with the Pardons and Steve Hassan?

No, it is not.

These are people who have helped me tremendously, who are my personal friends, and for whom I have infinite respect. That's all I'll say about them.

zeuszor:

OK.

But you really did not answer my question.

Do you still work through Steve Hassan's office doing research?

These are people who have helped me tremendously, who are my personal friends, and for whom I have infinite respect. End of story.

I've actually had the chance to hear Mr Hassan speak at a conference and was briefly able to say hello to him....seemed a likeable enough man (although I was not in touch with him in the capacity of a "client"...hence cannot comment on the "appropriateness" or otherwise of the fee scale, he may charge)...I regret that I haven't been able to meet up with the other individuals cited here (The "Pardons" or indeed the moderator himself....) all who seem to have made considerable contributions to fighting the scourge of cults....all of whom I would salute for their efforts... regrettably one of the disadvantages of living somewhat "off the beaten track" in Korea....

(Like Yasmin?) I've been impressed by what I've heard of Carl Rogers and those who practice his metholodologies.


...while this is now a topic of several pages previously, may I ask the Moderator how he has managed to "engage" former cult members in interviews? I ask this thinking back to those years both within the JesusChristians and even once immediately OUT of the JesusChristians....I would personally have utterly refused any "counselling" whatsoever, considering it a "sell-out" of the very things most dear to me, by admitting that I was somehow "in the wrong"....

For example, firstly, David McKay's instructions were (at that time) just to agree with everything that might have been put to you in such a situation and don't genuinely "involve" yourself at all emotionally...otherwise escape as soon a practical

Secondly, I probably would have been disappointed in David personally to hear how he fabricated (deliberately "watered down") his Children of God background, and would have felt disheartened to see how much material of what he purported to be his own, was actually plagiarized from a variety of other sources....(if this could have been reliably demonstrated to me)....however would just have put it down to "personal indiscretions" that didn't ultimately detract from the "wider truth" of the JesusChristian message....(largely how I "interpreted" contrary evidence of David's character over the course of my "membership")...

...and thirdly, as Lifton noted in "Loading the Language" (and which may STILL be seen in the desperate triteness of McKay's postings), the term "cult-buster" has a connotation to the members of the JesusChristians, of an adversary who seeks nothing other than to wear down their faith with ungodly cynicism, and the distortion of the "truth"...



"....our experience is that if we even begin to talk about "cults" we are slipping off the rails and assuming that there is some clear cut line between the good groups and the bad groups. It isn't long before we are using words like "wicked" as well." McKay Feb. 2012

[www.jesuschristians.com]

McKay here using an old "false dilemma" that an inability to find a "spotlessly pure" institution, implies then that meaningful judgements between "cults" and "churches" do not exist...(there are no objective "truths" only self-justifying "perceptions"..an old furphy that is PRECISELY the opposite, of what he would say when he had someone seriously considering membership in his empire....then David was FULL of "judgements" that justified an individual entering into servitude to him.....

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yasmin
Mr Ross, Out of interest what were the ethical concerns regarding Steve Hassan? I am aware of the fact that at one point his fee schedule was not posted, but did not know that there were ethical concerns regarding his practice? Would be grateful for more info on this.
By the way, Zeuszor, congrats on the degree, and I agree with you , ( for what its worth) that sociology/research at least at this point in your life seems a better fit for you than psych counsYeling. You seem to enjoy research,and i could imagine you enjoying it is an academic setting.

Yasmin, and anyone else who may be interested, here are some links. Unfortunately, some Wikipedia editors managed to edit out a legitimately cited reference to criticism of Steve Hassan. It appears that he has the information in his bio article quite well controlled, but fortunately he and his followers cannot control what I write elsewhere.

[phtherapies.wordpress.com]

[phtherapies.wordpress.com]

[phtherapies.wordpress.com]

[phtherapies.wordpress.com]

[phtherapies.wordpress.com]

Also, some things about Milton Erickson the people who think he was such a great person and therapist may not be aware of:

[anticultcontroversies.blogspot.com]

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zeuszor
These are people who have helped me tremendously, who are my personal friends, and for whom I have infinite respect. End of story.

I notice that you still haven't answered the question posed to you. Yes or no? Do you currently work for Steve Hassan? Or do you choose not to answer that question.

In this case "silence is assent" -- apparently zeuszor is still doing paid research projects for Steve Hassan's office.

At this juncture we should return this thread to the topic, which is "Jesus Christians" and Dave McKay.

I apologize for taking this trip off-track topically, but it was necessary to stop misleading information from being posted here that might potentially hurt individuals and families.

Also, it seemed like zeuszor was attempting to promote certain professionals here, e.g. suggesting he would share resources to help Jesus Christians.

If anyone is interested in a discussion about Steve Hassan or another professional concerned about cults perhaps a new thread should be started along those lines.

Getting back on topic, in my opinion the McKay group is not really disbanded. McKay seems to have evolved a different strategy for running the group. Evidence of his continued influence is apparent through the relative isolation and continued lack of commuication between McKay's followers and their families.

It's important not to blame cult members for certain behaviors, which occur due to group influence. Remember that cults can largely control behavior and influence thinking through coercive persuasion techniques.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Such techniques of control can effectively cause cult members to shut down much of their critical thinking.

Lifton calls the isolation imposed by controlling groups "milieu control". The net effect of this type of control is that cult members are often cut off from any meaningful outside frame of reference.

This is why it is difficult for cult members to seriously consider change.

The purpose of an intervention is to stimulate critical and independent thinking through an exhange of ideas and shared information, which takes place outside of the group milieu and its control. This process has proven to be meaningful for many cult members can lead to considering change, i.e. leaving the group.

It's important not to blame cult members for their inability to think independently about such things as change within a cultic environment.

Essentially, this is "the nature of the beast", i.e. the cultic mindset produced by "thought reform" techniques as described in-depth by Lifton.

See [www.culteducation.com]

The McKay group has historically demonstrated features of thought reform through such things as the relative isolation and control of communication of its members.

By examining the structure and dynamics of the McKay group you can see the tell-tale signs of cult-like control.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 11:50PM by rrmoderator.

I absolutely agree, moderator.

The ''disbanding'' is nothing but a smokescreen. Since the announcement that they were splitting up we've had various sightings of ''disbanded'' members distributing McKay's propaganda and there has been no news of positive communication with family and friends.

They have quite clearly gone underground.

I've had a look at Steve Hassan's website [www.freedomofmind.com] and it appears he also promotes [www.apologeticsindex.org] which is run by a convicted paedophile.