The bottom line is that that woman lied to me and tricked me, and then turned around and bad-mouthed me up and down the block. She tricked me, and then sold me out. Yeah, she's a real sweetheart.

To be blunt Zeuszor, that is your problem not mine. It doesn't belong on the thread and has nothing to do with Dave's kids. Fight your own battles, it is becoming boring for those interested in the seeing the end of JC's to be constantly involved in your personal grievances

I am far more interested in the Apostle Dave McKay himself.

Hi, Wendy! Yes, I do believe that some of these people really do believe in their own shtick, or else come to believe in their own lies over time after having told them over and over again. This is reinforced through the adulation of the narcissistic supply. Think of Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard. They came to believe in their own crap over time, in my opinion. Or sometimes they really believe that they are doing good from the start. In my opinion, Miller Newton is of this purely delusional type. Does this answer your question?

Quote
Stoic
The bottom line is that that woman lied to me and tricked me, and then turned around and bad-mouthed me up and down the block. She tricked me, and then sold me out. Yeah, she's a real sweetheart.

To be blunt Zeuszor, that is your problem not mine. It doesn't belong on the thread and has nothing to do with Dave's kids. Fight your own battles, it is becoming boring for those interested in the seeing the end of JC's to be constantly involved in your personal grievances

I am far more interested in the Apostle Dave McKay himself.

I respect your candor, and receive your correction. You are right. She's another one of those peanut-gallery types that scares me, like the mean retarded guy. If it weren't for her catty bullshit, then McKay'd probably be locked up by now. Thanks, Sisi!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2011 09:22PM by zeuszor.

My opinion, for what its worth, Wendy, is that all cult leaders are so self-deceptive that it really doesn't make much difference if they can convince themselves they believe their own schtick or not.

The end result is the same, cowed and frightened human beings who live a life of proxy, and daren't even acknowledge their own thoughts on anything. Cowed and frightened human beings are a godsend for a tyrant, which is why such types are drawn to the supposed 'power' a cult leader wields.
Its not even power really, as can be seen when a prior victim calls time on the charade. Its a fantasy being acted out.

Dr. Singer wrote something like this: cult leaders have a way of creating this fantasy that they project into the outside world and then come to inhabit, and then gradually they start inviting others to participate in it as well.

Dr. Singer wrote something like this: cult leaders have a way of creating this fantasy that they project into the outside world and then come to inhabit, and then gradually they start inviting others to participate in it as well.

Dr Singer knew what she was talking about.

Quote
Apollo
The JCs have not been successful in recruitment despite a serious increase in their recruitment methods such as DVDs, internet video posting, etc. I ascribe this to 2 things.

1) The amount of negative publicity available on the internet at the RR site, the xJC site, etc, and

2) Dave's recent departure from subtlety. His attacks and lies have become much more transparent to the average newcomer considering joining the group.

The solution to ending their own negative image generation is to get Dave to stop posting on their forum which can only be done by eliminating the forum. I don't believe this is a group-think decision, I believe it's Dave's own acknowledgment, which I see he mentioned some time ago that he is losing control of their forum. He knows that he could not stand firm in not responding to negative posts on his own forum, so the only solution is to eradicate his circus forum altogether.

The solution to stopping the external negative image is to try and convince the RR forum and the xJC forum that the JCs no longer exist, thus eliminating the need for negative press in those two venues.

I also believe a secondary reason for Dave's actions is to eliminate the potential for his own members to read negative posts on the internet also since I believe that he believes that some of the press might be responsible for recent members leaving.

I don't believe this has anything to do with dropping current members, reforming, etc. I believe it's a method to try and keep the current membership he has and also to allow a better chance for recruitment based upon:

If you compare the high tech recruitment methods (internet videos, DVD, forum, etc.) where he has a 99.9% failure rate because of the negative image those potential recruits see on the internet to a new low-tech (based solely on individual encounters, responses from his literature via snail-mail and email) he can increase his recruitment.

After all, a 20% success rate for individual encounters (say maybe a few hundred) with those who express interest via private mail and messaging would be much more successful than a .01% success rate for thousands encountered who have access to his forum, RR, xJCs, etc.

It's all a matter of reducing the risk of a potential convert finding out the truth about the JCs.

In regards to all the other propaganda about not using passports, money, etc, there are two scenarios I see possible, 1) It's all another BIG lie laced deception to mislead his critics or 2) Dave has finally reached a point to where his financial future is assured and he is willing to sacrifice some income to improve control because it did become apparent to many this summer, that there was a great loss of control when even his own members seemed to openly disagree with him on his handling of the little rose dilemma.

So if he takes away his members ability to use money, they won't have easy internet access and access to his detractors and to read what Dave is getting up to which usually results in a negative reflection on the JC cult which, I am sure that many of the members discuss among themselves. If they won't have passports, they won't have the ability to return to their love ones. I don't for one minute believe that Dave himself will EVER not have a passport or internet access, but I believe that now he exclusively will be the person that potential recruits communicate with via email. I believe the most negative aspect for his members distributing literature is the requirement that they solicit money in exchange for the literature. I believe they will STILL hand out his literature (possibly the only recruitment method left in their new low-tech policy) but might not solicit money as they did in the past (if they truly do plan to eliminate money-as far as the MEMBERS are concerned). This would make the distributing much less stressful for the members and also allow Dave to pacify his members concerning the major negative press they have already heard or read. Dave could still continue to receive and solicit donations privately through email connections that he has.

Cheers

Nomen Nescio

Sometimes Apollo has a tendency to express things as statements of fact without any supporting evidence, with respect.

Personally I do not believe that it was the Canadian who wrote this. It's not her style of writing at all; it's far more cogent and coherent than anything of hers I've ever read before. Probably it was Mr. Kyoo. It's more his style. This is professional work, not emotional hysterics.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2011 09:59PM by zeuszor.

Quote
Stoic
Dr. Singer wrote something like this: cult leaders have a way of creating this fantasy that they project into the outside world and then come to inhabit, and then gradually they start inviting others to participate in it as well.

Dr Singer knew what she was talking about.

Or maybe it was Dr. Lalich who really penned that. Who knows?

Personally I do not believe that it was the Canadian who wrote this.

Sisi passed it on for which I, for one, am grateful.
'Nomen nescio' made an appearance in a sting operation on the JC forum. Who cares who he was, he did a good job.


[en.wikipedia.org]

'Nomen nescio, abbreviated to N.N., is used to signify an anonymous or non-specific person.'

People choose anonymity because they want it that way. I'll bet that NN plays a good game of chess.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2011 10:06PM by Stoic.

Quote
Stoic
People choose anonymity because they want it that way.

So do trolls and busybody, gossiping drama queens. We must be aware and vigilant of these types, that's all I am saying.