Many people here would argue that these are the ideas of a cult. I don't agree, butif you're goign to maintain that groups like Unity are "cults," then why isn't this a cult?

[www.cognitivetherapy.com]

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Cognitive therapy teaches you how certain thinking patterns are causing your symptoms — by giving you a distorted picture of what's going on in your life, and making you feel anxious, depressed or angry for no good reason, or provoking you into ill-chosen actions.

But this can be done through thought-watching, meditation, prayer, spiritual mind treatment, affirmation, and numerous other forms. Why do I need to pay some fancy-schmancy doctor big bucks to "do it for me" when I am really the only one who can do it for me?

See [www.culteducation.com]

This page provides some parameters for understanding the word "cult."

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

People most often see doctors because they have training, credentials and licensing in a field and accountability.

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rrmoderator
People most often see doctors because they have training, credentials and licensing in a field and accountability.

True, and there is nothing wrong with that. But to make it out as if you NEED the doctor to improve the conditions in your life is, IMO, cultic thinking. There are other kinds of counselors, helpers, healers, also trained, credentialed, and licensed, who cna help you with the job until you are ready to do it yourself.

Timmer:

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you NEED the doctor to improve the conditions in your life is, IMO, cultic thinking.

You are not making much sense here.

First of all, if a person requires medical care this can easily be established through an examination by a qualified and trained physician, that is an MD medical doctor.

People do need doctors to perform necessary surgery, administer a vaccine, anti-biotic etc.

And psychological problems and/or mental illness likewise can be established through objective tests.

Seeking qualified professional care, is not "cultic thinking," but rather a need based upon objectively proven facts.

Not seeking needed medical care might be proof of "cultic thinking."

To better understand "cultic thinking" see the following:

[www.culteducation.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

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other kinds of counselors, helpers, healers, also trained, credentialed, and licensed

"Credentialed and licensed" would typically mean someone such as a licensed clinical psychologist through a state board of behaviorial health and the APA, a counselor with certification such as marriage and family therapist also state licensed, which often would include a Masters in Counseling, and of course a medical doctor MD.

These "credentialed and licensed" professionals are most often chosen to assist someone experiencing a physical illness or psychological/emotional problem.

These professionals are accountable for a standard of care to authorities and their license may be revoked.

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rrmoderator
First of all, if a person requires medical care this can easily be established through an examination by a qualified and trained physician, that is an MD medical doctor.

People do need doctors to perform necessary surgery, administer a vaccine, anti-biotic etc.

That's not the kind of doctor I'm talking about.

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And psychological problems and/or mental illness likewise can be established through objective tests.

Seeking qualified professional care, is not "cultic thinking," but rather a need based upon objectively proven facts.

True, but if you read the philosophy of Cognitive Therapy that I posted, it goes beyond that. It's the rhetoric of the "human potential" sorts of movements. It matches the rhetoric of many religious organizations that come under attack here, yet CT is defended.

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"Credentialed and licensed" would typically mean someone such as a licensed clinical psychologist through a state board of behaviorial health and the APA, a counselor with certification such as marriage and family therapist also state licensed, which often would include a Masters in Counseling, and of course a medical doctor MD. [/quoted]

There are different kinds of counselors, licensed in different ways, who are very effective in helping people. They can do the same thing for you that CT says it can do, but because CT is done by "therapists," somehow it's considered respectable while other similar kinds of counseling are not.

If those are "cults," then CT must be a "cult."

Timmer:

I have not stated anything regarding "Cognitive Therapy."

Seems like you are here to attack another message board member and have picked up on CT for that purpose.

Again, flaming is against the rules and you are drawing increasingly close to violating that rule.

Again, read the disclaimer regarding groups listed in some way through this database.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Simply because a group, organization, movement and/or person is listed here doesn't mean it/they are either a "cult," "cultic" and/or destructive.

Yes, we all know who is being hunted here...
;-)

Cognitive Therapy is not a "cult" in the least. First off, there are many different types of CT.

Its an evidence based type of therapy that many people have found helpful, but it is NOT for everyone.
It has been shown in HUNDREDS of controlled scientific studies to be about as effective as drugs in the treatment of various emotional disorders.

[www.beckinstitute.org]{6567B882-8541-45AB-8DB9-F10F4D6642AE}/PageVars/Library/InfoManage/Guide.htm

Also, where are the websites and lists of complaints of personal damage about it?
I am not aware of any.
CT is an open system, that is science-based. It may seem siilar to "positive thinking" to the casual observer, but nothing could be further from the truth. Its about being realisitic in your perceptions. Much of the work comes out of the Cognitive Sciences.
Also, the goal of CT is to "become your own therapist" so its not about creating a dependence in people.

Some other types of therapists are somewhat critical of some parts of CT, but that is good and healthy. The way to resolve those debates is by science-based experiments and objective testing.

CT is the OPPOSITE to cultic thinking as it teaches you to think REALISTICALLY, flexibly and accurately and not in some type of crazed supernatural cultic illusion.

Timmer actually appears to be fairly skilled at deliberately DEFLECTING from the real issues, and avoiding dealing with the objective facts, and creating a smoke-screen.

Coz

Coz:

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Also, where are the websites and lists of complaints of personal damage about it? I am not aware of any.

Very good point.

I have never received a complaint and am not aware of any concerning CT.

Whereas groups such as Social Therapy, Landmark Education, Lifespring, Sterling Institute of Relationship etc. have plenty of complaints, bad press and at times personal injury lawsuits (i.e. Landmark and Lifespring).

Seems like Timmer is targeting you though by hammering on CT.

Yes, a nice tactic of diversion.

Too bad there is no proof of damage i am aware of from using CT.
Too bad CT is about realistic thinking, and thinking for yourself.
Too bad there are hundreds of independent scientific placebo controlled studies showing CT works for up to 70-80% of people.

But to some people FACTS are the enemy of Belief, so the facts must be ignored.

Coz

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rrmoderator
Coz:

Seems like Timmer is targeting you though by hammering on CT.

There are many therapies that claim to help people with mood or psychotic disorders.

They all have studies that prove their effectiveness. The problem is that if you have the assets and time you can find a study to prove or disprove any point in psychology.

These therapies claim to help because there was improvement in some patients using their treatment. There is no way to open the box and look into a person's mind to prove that any therapy was the cause of improvement.

ANY THERAPY or MODALITY will help if it changes behavior.

Before Psychiatrists began using drug treatments most psychiatric problems resolved over time.

A new site argues that a little known conflict of physiology is the cause of most mental illness, including mood disorders.

The EST page explains why EST seminars produced psychotic mental breakdowns.

[visionandpsychosis.net]

This phenomenon can happen anytime and anyplace you create the conditions to cause stimulation in [b:d05f7ece25]Subliminal Peripheral Vision.[/b:d05f7ece25]