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Qi-gong Psychotic Reaction

Interesting. Found more info on this here:

Wikipedia - Zou huo ru mo

Hi Zizls,

No, I’m not interested in writing a book about it.

Re the teacher point you made, I spent six years with a decent one who is now no longer available, and my option after that is no longer trustworthy, so I figured I’d bump into another along the way purely because in my own research terms, I’d need to emulate the previous setting framework in order to check in on differences.

Today of course, for me at least, teachers are overseers.. everything we teach ourselves even as babies. I know that we emulate, and we apply the models that we are given with the added bonus of the contagion of the company that is kept. The contagion being stronger depending on the levels of emulation (yoga, etc) and diminished sense of self (lack of boundary via oneness, etc) involved.

It’s been what, all of 5 days or so and even the minimum contact with so called spiritual circles meant that my self worth is gripping at my guts, so I’m out. I know I’ll be told it’s mine, and it is.. but the fact is that I know my self worth only turns up like this when I’m heading down the wrong road or in a situation that’s not for me.

These few days allowed me to feel just how powerless many of these circles still are. I feel surprised and embarrassed that I ever got involved in some of these things the first place, which shows me how much I really have come along, which couldn’t have occurred had I have not left it all behind.

I’m not sure about your points about the intentions behind meditation practice being an issue, there should not be blame placed upon people due to their intentions. Give me the workings on that zizl what is that belief about? Or does it just serve to protect meditation as a working model in the minds of those who will be shattered without its fix?

Strong willed people hate mindfulness from what I’ve seen. Good, because strong will is needed more than ever in today’s world.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2020 12:28AM by facet.

Good, because strong will is needed more than ever in today’s world - heh, to add, perhaps why narcissism is on the rise.

.. and it’s true for me, it is that small engagement, the small experience and a return to daily life as usual, no better no worse, but the experience, because without the return to regularity there is the mess involved.

That’s where things too have gone wrong. The mystical experience for humans, maybe a short period during growing up if chosen, it has become a business.

It is an industry, one that needs regular adherents.

It’s not the way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2020 12:46AM by facet.

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facet
I’m not sure about your points about the intentions behind meditation practice being an issue, there should not be blame placed upon people due to their intentions. Give me the workings on that zizl what is that belief about? Or does it just serve to protect meditation as a working model in the minds of those who will be shattered without its fix?

Hi facet, I'm a bit puzzled that you managed to turn my observation into blame but that's okay.

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facet
Strong willed people hate mindfulness from what I’ve seen. Good, because strong will is needed more than ever in today’s world.

Again, I'm a bit puzzled by your words but that's okay. There are/were many successful people with a meditation practice, e.g. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/31/2020 01:08AM by zizlz.

Hi Zizls,

I can elaborate, in the quote here you mention

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The cases I see meditation having negative effects usually involve meditating for the wrong reasons: the belief that "there's something wrong with me, and I have to un-wrong myself by meditating."

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A more healthy attitude IMO is to meditate because you love connecting with the stillness that underlies all experience but usually goes unnoticed. Or curiosity about the nature of awareness, self, and the mind. If meditation isn't done in a loving/fun way, I think it's better not to do it at all.

Negative affects being due to ‘wrong reason to meditate’ it is laying blame upon the person choosing.

Brain chemistry is changed with meditation, maybe initial benefits but as previously mentioned meditation is simply the lesser functioning brain, I myself prefer human functioning as it naturally is, I let it do what it needs to do minus an intervention such as meditation.

Many people, especially today, are not accessing meditation from the p perspectives quoted above, but that does not = the reason for its failures, which are for the majority, serious in nature.

Unless you are involved in a lineage that requires, why would meditation long term enter anyone’s life? There is no need.

For passing mystical experience, there is contagion with the teacher maybe, but long term? No need. Paying? No need.

The problems of life you mention are are dealt with separately. Societies today recommend meditation, even for young people and children. I feel these recommendations dangerous, like I said previously, it’s like smoking, one day there will be warnings about it everywhere.

Our brains are so delicate, I think that they do what they need to do with the environment, which can either spur an action in a person to make a positive change their lives if it’s needed. Or, to sit in acceptance and meditation and adapt. I know which I choose and of course others are free to choose for themselves. Some things, they are just not for accepting. Practice, the ‘illusion’ of life drama aside.

Let’s say for a fictional instance I have a neighbour who is bringing home loud parties, meditation won’t help that.. and I cannot use a healing modality or system of magic (both methods of need to control) to remove the neighbour, however my acting in the world for me will. Fight or flight maybe be repeatedly there, til I get my ass out of the situation, it is a helper, and if it’s not, then I might want to look at why I’ve switched that function off in meditation and ended up enduring a problem for much longer than I should have, which then is contributing to poor mental health.

Meditation is not what it is cracked up to be, those are my old wise words to my younger self if I had the faculty to tell me :-).. and for me, I entered in through playful enquiry and with the help of contagion.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2020 02:05AM by facet.

Thanks for your explanation, Facet. I agree with your reservations about having children meditate. I once asked a psychologist what she thought about meditating with children and she recommended against it, saying it may not be healthy to halt their inner processes.

Regarding the rest of what you wrote, it doesn't match my own experience nor the scientific research I've read.

zizlz Wrote:
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I once asked a psychologist what she thought about
> meditating with children and she recommended
> against it, saying it may not be healthy to halt
> their inner processes.

Good to know :-)

>
> Regarding the rest of what you wrote, it doesn't
> match my own experience nor the scientific
> research I've read.

We are all different, after all. Stay well :-)

An interesting article..

Link

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Have people actually conducted studies on meditation addiction? U.S.-based researchers conducted a qualitative research study in 2017 that determined 7 impacts of excessive meditation. Researchers concluded that if you meditate excessively, it can impact your: Cognitive thinking Sensory stimuli Emotions Body Awareness Motivation Sense of self Social interaction Additionally, researchers found that as many as 41 percent of participants experienced negative results when meditating for over 10 hours per day. With that being said, some people experience “spiritual bliss” through meditation. These people may spend several hours in a meditative state each day with hopes of recreating that feeling of euphoria.

Meditation can be dangerous only if its methodology of practice contains some kind of physical and psycho-emotional coercion.

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...mindfulness interventions in the West are often presented as a “quick fix”, while ignoring much of the ethical guidance that was part of the original religious tradition – which may be important for ensuring that the practice brings about the desired changes to people’s behaviour

How Mindfulness Can Make You a Darker Person

Mindfulness is thought to have multiple benefits – but it can also make you less likely to feel guilty about wrongdoing and derail your moral compass.

[www.bbc.com]

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According to a new paper, mindfulness may be especially harmful when we have wronged other people. By quelling our feelings of guilt, it seems, the common meditation technique discourages us from making amends for our mistakes.

“Cultivating mindfulness can distract people from their own transgressions and interpersonal obligations, occasionally relaxing one’s moral compass,” says Andrew Hafenbrack, assistant professor of management and organisation at the University of Washington, US, who led the new study.

In general, mindfulness seems to calm uncomfortable feelings, he says, which is incredibly useful if you feel overwhelmed by pressure at work. But many negative emotions can serve a useful purpose, particularly when it comes to moral decision making. Guilt, for example, can motivate us to apologise when we have hurt someone else, or to take reparative action that might undo some of the damage we’ve done.

In his study on guilt, Hafenbrack found that – unlike mindful breathing – loving-kindness meditation increased people’s intentions to make amends for their wrongs. “It can help people feel less bad and focus on the present moment, without having the risk of reducing the desire to repair relationships,” he says.

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Miguel Farias, an associate professor in experimental psychology at Coventry University, UK, says that he welcomes any studies that carefully and precisely detail the effects of mindfulness. “I certainly think that we need to start looking at the nuances.” In his book The Buddha Pill, co-written with Catherine Wikholm, he describes how mindfulness interventions in the West are often presented as a “quick fix”, while ignoring much of the ethical guidance that was part of the original religious tradition – which may be important for ensuring that the practice brings about the desired changes to people’s behaviour.

Mind-Body Practices and the Self: Yoga and Meditation Do Not Quiet the Ego but Instead Boost Self-Enhancement


[journals.sagepub.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2022 02:18AM by corboy.