Hi again Misstyk
I think the thread was closed because it had exceeded even DI's capacity to tolerate madness. It is probably the first time they have done that. I don't think it had anything to do with Victoria's arrival. V is wrong about access to the Janice Doe court papers. They have been deleted from the records, as far as I know. I have a paper copy of the indictment which was sent to me back in 1994. There are moves afoot to address the problem of charlatan lamas (not just Sogyal -- there are others, as you know) on a non-sensational basis. I can't go into detail on this at the moment because the initiative is in its early stages. Meanwhile, I continue with my journalistic approach which is, by its very nature, a lot more sensational. I try to keep it as sober as possible, but I do have to get a "story" past an editor. I will update here when there are developments to report.

[behindthethangkas.wordpress.com]

That looks like quite the opus ("behind the thangkas"). Is that your work? Congratulations! Bless you, for your efforts.

I wonder how "charlatan lama" would be defined. The problem is not only with charlatans (for example: would Chogyam Trungpa qualify?), but with legit lamas behaving illegitimately. That problem needs to be addressed, too. One step at a time, I guess.

Sogyal is perceived to be a legit lama because of the book. Andrew Harvey has kept mum about his roll in it, and in helping Sogyal promote it, all these years. I suppose we can't expect his to speak up at this point...? I suppose that might cause such an uproar, he'd have to prove his claim, which he may not be able to do. It's all so difficult; we know people are being abusive, but to prove it is impossible. So, then what?

I would say that the nature of the subject matter is such, that one can't avoid being sensationalistic, journalist or no.

Why is one person being allowed to flood and dominate the DI thread on Buddhist groups and finances?

The problem is not only with charlatans (for example: would Chogyam Trungpa qualify?), but with legit lamas behaving illegitimately. That problem needs to be addressed, too.

This is a very helpful phrase, 'legit lamas behaving illegitimately.'

Many years ago a librarian at a Buddhist research institute, a woman who cared deeply about spiritual abuse, shook her head.

"So very many teachers who did good for many people misbehaved with many other people. And these were teachers whose training as monastics, whose lineages were not in doubt.

"If I were to exclude books by every teacher who misbehaved, I would have to remove books that have been helpful to many people--books by teachers who wrote well, but who in person left hurtful legacies."

I will contend this:

The Himalayan lineages took their distinctive features by incorporating Later Indian (800 CE) Mahayana Buddhism with practices that were already indigenous and not Buddhist, practices, such as Bon shamanism (divination using rosaries, shamans who go into trances and who are consulted as oracles) and tantra (which appears to have started in Shaivite Hinduism as part of matriarchal Shakti veneration and only later was coopted into male empowerment and female domination).

Ok...look at all this non Buddhist stuff that the Himalayans managed to shove into imported Buddhism until it took on its current features today. It turned into a system in which high lamas became monarchs and barons, administering their monasteries as fiefdoms--all the things that Buddha had renounced when he left his princely life to go and become a sanyassi/yogi/renunciate.

These Himalayans incorporated their indigneous rituals into Buddhism; using rituals as part of the legitimation of the power and vast domination enjoyed by the ruling Lamas and baronial abbots.

Buddha had taught that rituals were not what led to liberation from suffering. He also took a firm stand against caste, saying virtuous behavior was what mattered, not the state one was born in.

The Himalayans proved able to accept a lot of features into Buddhism that were massively at variance with what Buddha taught and the result are the various lineages of Himalyan and Mongolian Buddhism.

Well now that Himalayan Buddhism is reaching Western participatory democracies, how about showing some humble versatility by adapting to some features that are indigenous to the Western landscape and incorporating these features?

*Elected boards of directors.

*No monies leave the US unless vetted and approved by the board of directors.

*Recognition that in the West, power is seen as one and the same with public accountablity and that power does not equal access to sex and money on demand.

*Male leaders are not entitled to sex and money on demand.

*If a woman says 'No' or shows no interest in your advances, STOP

It is time for Himalayan Buddhism to demonstrate its ability to adopt to the ideas of justice and democracy that are indigenous to the areas where it now gets so much of its support and its finances.

If it could incorporate non Buddhist stuff such as Shaivite left handed Shakti tantra, it can make the effort to adopt to democratic societies by abandoning the model of monarchical leader and learn colleagial leadership.

Buddha in Mahaparinibbana sutta advised counsulting councils of elders. This is transferable to our concept of boards of directors.

As usual and excellent post from Corboy. It should be read by everyone involved in Tibetan Buddhism in the west. Although I agree with most of the political content of your contribution Corboy, I feel I need to speak up in support of the authentic spiritual component. TB is, without a scintilla of doubt on my part, a highly effective contemplative tradition which has nurtured some of the most evolved Buddhist practitioners on planet earth. It is because I respect Tibetan Buddhism and wish to see it continue to flourish that I have campaigned more or less continuously for the past 20+ years against power and sex abuse and in favour of integration with the moral and ethical standards we cherish in the developed world.

Elected boards of directors.

By this, I mean board members elected by secret ballot by all dues paying members of the community, not, and I repeat, not board members hand picked by the abbot or leader.

A board composed of docile admirers and enablers of the leader is an instrument of depotism masquerading as democracy.

Again, Himalayan Buddhism resulted from co-option of many non Buddhist rituals and roles that were indigenous to the regions.

So...given that kind of enterprising and tactful flexbility, the emigre leaders of Himalayan Buddhism need to face that they are getting much of their support and money from persons reared in participatory democracies, persons socialized to be citizens, not grovelling serfs.

From where we come from, power is something examined objectively and in the abstract and we make distinctions between power benevolently applied and power that is oppressively applied.

And in functioning democracies, to acquire power and leadership entails acceptance of accountablity for how one uses one's power.

One is not entitled to indulge oneself.

And persons who express criticism and concern with ones leaderhsip and who express this courteously, are accorded basic respect. Such persons are regarded in functioning democracies as valuable sources of information/teachings.

In democracies, persons who express criticism and concern about ones leadership are not written off as persons stuck in ordinary mind and in delusion.

I wrote somewhat heatedly and Blue Dakini is right.

I must confess that I recently read a memoir by a man who had lived as a monk 3 years in Dharamsala, studied at the Institute of Dialectics.

The book is entitled Turtle Feet by Nikolai Grozni.

Some of the things I learned via that memoir pained me very much and I am still trying to sort it out.

In any case, the unique features of Himalayan Buddhism are as a result of adaptation to indigenous customs.

That same process in China and then in Japan brought special features to the Buddhism and monastic Buddhist practices in those areas.

Now that Buddhadharma is arriving in functional democracies, with accountablity based leadership, it will be time for lineage holders to adapt again, rather than accuse citizens of having ego problems.

Respectful but evidence based - dissent and the quest for justice are to be understood as practice and as opportunities to refine and practice right speech, not automatically written off as wrong speech or dismissed as delusional mind.

Thank you Corboy. I hope some of the hysterical ghouls writing insane comments on Dialogue Ireland are also reading this thread -- where sanity, common sense and intellectual rigor prevail.

Blue Dakini, if you think TB should be saved, corboy's suggestions are a good way to do it. With credible boards of directors who put in place strict rules of conduct and require all teachers, whether visiting lamas, or staff teachers, to sign a contract that says something along the lines of "physical contact with students will result in termination of this contract" would be a big step in the right direction.

All teachers should be briefed on sexual harassment guidelines and fiduciary trust law as part of their introduction to the center where they're teaching. Behavior guidelines should be spelled out in clear detail, and teachers should sign an ironclad contract pledging to abide by the rules. To see what Jack Kornfield, who, along with Stephen Batchelor and other western dharma leaders, discussed abuse issues with the DL, has done at his Spirit Rock Meditation Center in CA, see "teacher code of ethics" on the Spirit Rock website. Roshi Joan Halifax is revising her Upaya Zen Center's ethics rules for teachers to include some of these suggestions. I think there should be a standardizing process for strict guidelines like this that should take place in sanghas nationwide, and in Europe as well.

How to recruit objective, ethical people to boards is another question. The national Zen Studies board, after 30 years of misconduct and several rapes of students by Roshi Eido Shimano, still can't reach a consensus as to how to deal with him. Although most leaders in the Zen community and many board members want him deported, there is a small group of board members that wants to buy the Zen Studies center's building as a temple for Shimano, so they can continue studying with him. So even national oversight boards can be political. But those people AFAIK, were appointed by Shimano, that appears to be the problem.

At any rate, the struggles of the Zen Society to deal with their most egregious example of misconduct (though not the only one) can be instructive for those in Tibetan Buddhism looking for a management model that could help solve the problems in their neck of the woods.

Yes, as TB moves into democratic countries, it too, will have to democratize and learn transparency. Transparency, though, is in direct conflict with a tradition that so far has managed to maintain tremendous secrecy around their higher tantric practices. Another way to go would be to eliminate the Vajrayana component, as Shamar Rinpoche has done in his Bodhi Path Centers in the West. He decided Vajrayana and tantra haven't worked out at all, so his centers teach the bodhisattva path only. Good for him--that's all most students of Buddhism ever wanted. See: www.shamarpa.org for more info.

Teacher code of ethics at Sprit Rock Center:
[www.spiritrock.org]