critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
vaidya
()
Date: February 14, 2007 03:34PM
Quote
richardmgreen
We're the ones who taught the world about the sanctity of life.
what? ever heard of ahimsa? it was there in the vedas long before your g-d made a covenant with abe
the jewish faith HAS been influential, unfortunately its highly debatable whether or not this influence has been beneficial - the resultant spread of its theology through xtianity and islam has caused more damage to human culture than any other influence, except perhaps the romans - counter this with religions like hinduism that have allowed for a heterogenous and very diverse spiritual and cultural climate, marked by comparatively little historical violence
please be clear that i am NOT saying this is a jewish conspiracy, but perhaps your estimation of YOUR people and their influence may be a little skewed... in this sense, influence is not necessarily a good thing
regarding the issue of anti-semetism and criticism of israel, it is the israelis and their jewish supporters that have made israel a religious issue, and criticism against it a crime of "anti-semitism" (like arabs aren't semetic also...) - it is clear that one cannot criticize israel without being condemned by many jews as antisemitic, even those "self-hating" jews
but israel was born of inequity and it appears that unless israelis start applying that principle of the "sanctity of life" you speak that israel is headed for disaster - call it karma, a non-jewish concept to be sure, but not any less true
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: February 15, 2007 02:26AM
Quote
vaidyaQuote
richardmgreen
regarding the issue of anti-semetism and criticism of israel, it is the israelis and their jewish supporters that have made israel a religious issue,
Absolutely false. What do you think motivates Hamas, Hezollah? Secularism? Are you kidding? Israel allows freedom of religion within its borders, gives women rights, allows gay parades. These kinds of freedoms barely exist ANYWHERE in the Muslim world.
Also, as for Israel's birth, you may be too young to have heard of things such as "World War 2" or the "Holocaust". You might want to look them up first.
Also, you may not know this but Xtianity is a slur used by neo-nazi extremists who hate Christianity. Their main problem with it is that it is based on a Jew and in the Nazi future, even Christianity must be done away with as discussion of it will inevitably keep Judaism alive in people's memory. Are you one of those "Hindo-Aryan myth" types? Or are you actually a Hindu? You sound like a Savitri Devi type or something...
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
kageki
()
Date: August 15, 2007 03:38PM
Quote
Absolutely false. What do you think motivates Hamas, Hezollah? Secularism? Are you kidding? Israel allows freedom of religion within its borders, gives women rights, allows gay parades. These kinds of freedoms barely exist ANYWHERE in the Muslim world.
Also, as for Israel's birth, you may be too young to have heard of things such as "World War 2" or the "Holocaust". You might want to look them up first.
You don't make any sense. Jews believe the land of Palestine is their biblical right. How is that not religious? Hezbollah was in response to Israeli invasion of southern Lebanon and consequently their illegal occupation of that land. Palestinians living in Israel are not given equal rights and are not even considered regular citizens much like the black slaves in America. Generalising muslims to the small group of extremist/fundamentalist is also one of the biggest misunderstandings. You should ask the US why they helped to prop up a fundamentalist in Iran and continue to support other fundamentalist regimes in that area.
What about WWII and the Holocaust? Even if we are to believe everything about the "official" history does that somehow excuse them to slaughter the indigenous Palestinians that were living in the land now called Israel?
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
kageki
()
Date: August 15, 2007 04:02PM
Quote
richardmgreen
The founder of the JDL gave an interview in a Jewish magazine and said that much antisemitism comes about because the Jews are a small group who are very influential. I'm Jewish myself and the impact my people have had on the world is staggering. We sparked off a spiritual path that created 2 derivative world religions, namely Islam and Christianity and about 1/2 of the world's population is monotheist now as a result.
We're the ones who taught the world about the sanctity of life. Before the arabs became moslems for example, they were a series of loosely confederated tribes who were killing each other.
Whenever you look at even politics and other fields, many times when a new idea is needed someone who is Jewish writes a new book. Marxism, psychiatry etc.. The Jews as a group are innovators and influential.
I think this perfectly sums up why some people would actually be anti-Jewish. Pure arrogrance. It's not just that a small group can be influential, but is it not conceivable this "influence" can be used unfairly at times? Power corrupts indefinitely.
Ok Jews teach the world about the sanctity of life but then get Jesus to be crucified? I suppose Christianity didn't have a bloody past and something called the Inquisition? You imply Arabs stop killing each other after they became Moslems but now all of you scream about Islamic fascists? Seems like religion is the problem here.
You actually want to boast about Marxism? Marx wrote the Communist manifesto which gave rise to one of the bloodiest nation in the world, the Soviet Union. Stalin was a Jew and responsible for more deaths then the Holocaust.
Psychiatry like Freud? It's true the model of the mind he proposed is still followed today but his other ideas have largely faded in modern times. He was also a cocaine addict and have even written about it. Jung however came after and his works are still highly regarded today. I don't think he was a Jew.
See when you say Jews are innovative and influential you imply that Jews are above everyone which is obviously a highly contentious statement. You really wonder why someone might take offence to that? It's just nonsense to overlook the collective achievement and contribution by all people. The Persian culture? The Egyptians? The ancient Chinese culture? Yeah I suppose non-Jews have never written a book :roll:
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: August 16, 2007 12:27AM
Quote
"kageki"
What about WWII and the Holocaust? Even if we are to believe everything about the "official" historyQuote
Yeah, I knew you'd show your true colors eventually. You are not an "earnest skeptic of Israeli policy who loves all people". You are a holocaust denier. Thanks for clearing that up!
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
kageki
()
Date: August 16, 2007 01:17AM
Quote
"shakti"Quote
"kageki"
What about WWII and the Holocaust? Even if we are to believe everything about the "official" historyQuote
Yeah, I knew you'd show your true colors eventually. You are not an "earnest skeptic of Israeli policy who loves all people". You are a holocaust denier. Thanks for clearing that up!
Typical of the crowd that likes to slander other people by these buzzwords. What's worse is that by ignoring my main question you seem to excuse the slaughter of Palestinians in the process of creating the state of Israel. Is it safe to assume that since you fail to answer my question?
I actually don't take an extreme stance like completely denying the Holocaust since Holocaust survivors are real off course. From what I have gathered so far, it seems like the crux of these "deniers" are simply questioning the official number of 6 million dead. Can it possibly be less?
Take a look here about Bromberg Bloody Sunday:
[en.wikipedia.org])
The Germans have stated 58,000 were killed by Poles, but looking on that Wikipedia page it shows that Jews actually challenge that number and offer far less numbers actually dead by claiming it is "Nazi propaganda". It seems like they are Bloody Sunday deniers?
When I put official in quotes I was not just referring to the Holocaust rather the whole history of WWII. Either way I still don't believe that somehow gives them the right to establish an occupied territory as you imply.
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: August 16, 2007 03:03AM
Quote
kageki
Either way I still don't believe that somehow gives them the right to establish an occupied territory as you imply.
OK, so what justified Islamic conquest of what was formerly Israel in previous centuries? If we are going to go back in time, where does one draw the line? Do you support Jews having their homes and land, which was stolen from them, in Muslim countries returned to them?
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
kageki
()
Date: August 16, 2007 03:13PM
Quote
shaktiQuote
kageki
Either way I still don't believe that somehow gives them the right to establish an occupied territory as you imply.
OK, so what justified Islamic conquest of what was formerly Israel in previous centuries? If we are going to go back in time, where does one draw the line? Do you support Jews having their homes and land, which was stolen from them, in Muslim countries returned to them?
So basically you are also making excuses and "qualifying" statements for atrocities by the Jews? You seem to be tacitly agreeing with that.
No I don't support such a homeland that involves forced displacement of indigenous people and a government that participates in ethnic cleansing. In my eyes you lose any shred of credibility in criticizing "jihadi death cultists" if you embrace such a way of thinking despite the reality of such ancient history.
This is what you are implying that its payback time?
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
shakti
()
Date: August 17, 2007 02:46AM
Quote
kageki
No I don't support such a homeland that involves forced displacement of indigenous people and a government that participates in ethnic cleansing. In my eyes you lose any shred of credibility in criticizing "jihadi death cultists" if you embrace such a way of thinking despite the reality of such ancient history.
This is what you are implying that its payback time?
Ethnic cleansing? Give me the numbers on the Palestinian population over the last fifty years.
No, I'm not implying "payback time". I support a Palestinian state. They will get it much sooner the second they stop supporting terror against innocent civilians. Do you support suicide bombing? Yes or no.
critics of Israel anti-Semites?
Posted by:
kageki
()
Date: August 17, 2007 10:28AM
Quote
shakti
Ethnic cleansing? Give me the numbers on the Palestinian population over the last fifty years.
No, I'm not implying "payback time". I support a Palestinian state. They will get it much sooner the second they stop supporting terror against innocent civilians. Do you support suicide bombing? Yes or no.
What is involved in creating the state of Israel? Bulldozing Palestinian settlements and sometimes outright massacre or just trying to kick them out to make a Jews only state. The "terrorist" attacks are a response to the Israeli aggression, illegal occupation and oppression of the Palestinians.
Which is worse? A suicide bomber or a bomb dropped from a military plane?
The brutal retaliation of the Israeli government is hardly ever mentioned in the media. Who has the nukes, tanks, guns and a formidable military? Are you one of those people that think kids throwing rocks somehow is comparable to a fully equipped soldier with a M16?
The Palestinians don't have any of these things so in an act of desperation they have resorted to suicide bombing. It's horrific yes, but the physical damage it causes pales in comparison to a military chopper attack or a missile or even a much bigger bomb. It's not a fair question if you are not willing to look at both sides.
I don't think it's a matter of allowing a Palestinian state. None of this bloodshed would have started if they hadn't made the state of Israel in the first place.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.