Has anyone checked out the website: [u:778db1e5a6]http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=advocacy[/u:778db1e5a6]
This topic is pretty interesting, seems there is some political activism against the Bush administration's faith-based initiative.

I was pretty surprised to learn about the "Inner Change Freedom
Initiative" - I gather that in our prisons inmates are being coerced into lay intervention programs based on AA: [u:778db1e5a6]http://66.102.7.104/u/americansunited?q=cache:zH9Gr_2xPHYJ:www.au.org/site/DocServer/luchenitser.pdf%3FdocID%3D185+alcoholics+anonymous&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3&ie=UTF-8[/u:778db1e5a6]

I am a healthcare professional, and I am appalled that people with emotional disturbances would be shuttled into these "lay", ""faith-based" programs. It is my understanding that these programs discourage the people in need of their "help" from taking prescribed medications. Often people with these underlying substance abuse programs are better served by conventional medicine.

They have a couple of briefs posted: [u:778db1e5a6]http://66.102.7.104/u/americansunited?q=cache:2RZXK8BNa1sJ:www.au.org/site/DocServer/InnerChangeBrief.pdf%3FdocID%3D163+alcoholics+anonymous&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&ie=UTF-8[/u:778db1e5a6] and
>> [u:778db1e5a6]http://66.102.7.104/u/americansunited?q=cache:f1bFbln4zq0J:www.au.org/site/DocServer/Mapes.pdf%3FdocID%3D162+alcoholics+anonymous&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&ie=UTF-8[/u:778db1e5a6]

An interesting read also is a book I picked up several months ago "With God onTheir Side: George W. Bush and the Christian Right " by Esther Kaplan. I am seriously concerned that the US is going down the slippery slope into state religion. This must have the founding fathers spinning around in their graves.....

Those guys in jail are felons, and they deserve to lose all their legal rights.
Making them pray could make them act better when they get out of jail, too, so maybe they won't do it again, ether.

The president is just trying to save the public money. If twelve steps or Jesus can do it for free, why should the government waste taxpayer dollares on expensive rehabs, drugs, and therapy?

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andychee
Those guys in jail are felons, and they deserve to lose all their legal rights.
Making them pray could make them act better when they get out of jail, too, so maybe they won't do it again, ether.

Not everyone in jail is guilty of a crime and not everyone running around free is innocent. I don't agree that prisoners should lose ALL their legal rights.

I was taught that the guys who formed the constitution were christians, and that now people say they weren't because they want to write God out of our lives.
Maybe it's not right to say you have to be christain, but don't we say One Nation under God? What kind of a coun try would we be if there were athiests in charge of us?
How would you make any body obey the law if they don't believe in God.
I thought you lost all your rights, like the right to freedom and the right to vote when you are a felon.
I don't think I got a felony for my dui. I guess a lot of guys are in jail for dui, so I don't know if there felons or not.

Many of our founding fathers were Christian although some were not- Of the Christians -they were of all flavors- not simply Evangelical. If you look back into our history- you will find that the Colonist had the Church of England forced upon them- many were happy about this-many were not. As such- our founding fathers were (rightfully so) wary of creating a Theocray. Instead -when establishing our country- they chose to create a Democracy -not a Theocracy. The very recent phenonena of making a "myth" of separation of Church and State- is more political agenda than anything- Akin to adding the phrase "Under God" -which was added by political motives by politicians during an election year (some 50 years ago). To "test" the wisdom of separation of Church & State- answer the following HONESTLY- you MUST be honest however - If politicians swapped out "Under God" for "Under the Virgin Mary " or "Under Allah" or "under -fill in the blank" - would you be as delighted ? if you are being honest -the answer is no- which is exactly why separation of Church and State -works -and attempts to undo this are a tragic mistake.

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dfwflyer
If you look back into our history- you will find that the Colonist had the Church of England forced upon them.

You are mistaken, my friend.

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andychee
I was taught that the guys who formed the constitution were christians.

Most probably considered themselves Christians and most probably believed, as did James Madison, that Christ ordained a separation of the thing's of God from the jurisdiction of civl government. See Matthew 22:21 and Madison's Detached Memorada where he uses the phrases "his Kindom in not of this world" and "giving to Caesar what belongs to God."

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andychee
People say they weren't because they want to write God out of our lives.

I didn't know it was possible for one person to write God out of the life of another. How is that done?

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andychee
Maybe it's not right to say you have to be christain, but don't we say One Nation under God?

I don't see many people going around wearing buttons or T-Shirst that say "One Nation under God." What are you talking about?

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andychee
What kind of a country would we be if there were athiests in charge of us? How would you make any body obey the law if they don't believe in God.

How many atheist do you know of that are in prison?

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andychee
I thought you lost all your rights, like the right to freedom and the right to vote when you are a felon.

You were mistaken.

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andychee
I don't think I got a felony for my dui. I guess a lot of guys are in jail for dui, so I don't know if there felons or not.

First time DUI/DWI is a misdemeanor in Texas punishable by six months in jail and/or a $2,000 fine. Most first time offenders get two years probation.

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andychee
Those guys in jail are felons, and they deserve to lose all their legal rights.

Yes they are felons but they are still someones' son, father, etc. People are rarely just one thing. Maybe they should never be let out, but they can find meaning and purpose where they are.

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andychee
I was taught that the guys who formed the constitution were christians, and that now people say they weren't because they want to write God out of our lives.
Maybe it's not right to say you have to be christain, but don't we say One Nation under God? What kind of a coun try would we be if there were athiests in charge of us?
How would you make any body obey the law if they don't believe in God.
I thought you lost all your rights, like the right to freedom and the right to vote when you are a felon.
I don't think I got a felony for my dui. I guess a lot of guys are in jail for dui, so I don't know if there felons or not.

The founding fathers were not christians. [monotheism.us]

George Wasington wrote:
1st President (1789-1797)

“Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their [not our?] religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.” (Letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792)

John Adams wrote:
2nd President (1797-1801)

“Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion.”
“Thirteen governments [states & former colonies] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretense of miracle or mystery...are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”
“It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service [formation of the American governments] had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven...”
Treaty of Tripoli ― Ratified by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams on 10 June, 1797.
“[T]he Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion...”
“How has it happened that millions of myths, fables, legends and tales have been blended with Jewish and Christian fables and myths and have made them the most bloody religion that has ever existed? Filled with the sordid and detestable purposes of superstition and fraud?” (Letters to F.A. Van Der Kamp 1809-1816)

Thomas Jefferson wrote:
3rd President (1801-1809)

I join you [John Adams], therefore, in sincere congratulations that this den of the priesthood is at length broken up, and that a Protestant Popedom is no longer to disgrace the American history and character.”
“In every country and in every age the priest [any and every clergyman] has been hostile to liberty; he is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.”
“I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies.”

Abraham Lincoln:
16th President (1861-1865)

“My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them.” (to Judge JS. Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln's death)
Mary Todd Lincoln:
“Mr. Lincoln was not a Christian.”