What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: rrmoderator ()
Date: July 24, 2002 05:12AM

See the following links for a start and then you might check my Links and Books pages, which have additional resources.



What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: mavin ()
Date: November 30, 2002 09:40AM

Neurolinguistic programming and trance induction. You might be able to tell if you have been programed with NLP in some of the following ways: You are listening to someone giving a speech and they mispronounce a word or stumble on a word or phrase, and you "go into a thought process" or "trance" out at that and miss the next things stated in the speech or on the tape.

You can't watch certain things on television, you can't remember things like the weather after sitting and watching it.

A word can trigger you, and you just zone out.

It takes awhile to become NL programmed and you can unprogram. NLP is a nasty sneaky process and one can become dangerously programmed.

If you are concerned about being programmed, become aware when you "zone" out and make note of what superceded that "trancing". Being sensitive to trance induction one needs to be very careful of NLP.

Also you will note it in commercials. Did you ever wonder why at the end of a commercial they add something that has nothing to do with the product advertised or make no sense? That is an anchor that they are using. It throws your mind off kilter for a few seconds and anchors that dratted commerical. Become aware of the anchors and in your awareness .....with awareness you can disable them.

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 01, 2002 06:23AM

My guess is that that technique you mention where there's a commerical, and at the very end of it, something's included that seemingly 'makes no sense'-- is this a method of inducing a subtle shock or disorientation, designed to enhance susceptibility to the previous message? I have heard that one way to make people suggestible is to shock them, or stun them for an instant, then 'download' whatever tripe you're peddling.

I watched a 'guru' who is reputedly a 'ealized master and he constantly found ways to shock people and throw them off balance. He was so crude about it that I sensed he was using this to wear us out so we would succumb to his nonsense. I walked out after 20 minutes. I later learned he'd been a Silva Mind Control instructor before going into the guru racket.

I dont watch TV so am not up on commercials. But I will keep an eye peeled for your examples

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: mavin ()
Date: December 01, 2002 09:19AM

In the cult that I was in, scripture was read, and scriputres that did in reality not fit together were chained together to prove any doctrine that the head guru wanted to prove.

Demanding we take notes, flitting from scripture to scripture, chasing the minister with our bibles, left little time to "think" as we just allowed the "being off kilter" or as you put it "shocked" or "stunned" ... the information had no time to be filtered by critical thinking.

It was not unusual for the entire congregation to stand around after services and ask one another what the sermon was about and no one being able to answer ... now that is powerful mind control well at work.

I do not believe that all the ministers were aware that they were using mind control techniques, as they were trained that way and were just doing what they were trained to do. Therefore, many of the ministers were innocent victims themselves, yet victimizing others very effectively, unbeknown to anyone present except the gurus at the top that knew what was going on.

I have kept some contact with some of the x members and some ministers, and more than one has still remained faithful in spite of tremendous evidence of the false hood of the cult doctrines etc. Others are out there trying to make amends. Some just are trying to live their lives as best as they can. That is what I am trying to do now. I was not a minister.

As for "shocking" people, well shocking in any way will enable someone to by pass the critical thinking for a few seconds and real electrical shock will even produce abnesia. Hope I spelled that right. I can't spell as well as I usedtocould before the cult. :mad:

I am able to read again though. That was messed with also. Mavin

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 01, 2002 11:08PM

Dear Mavin, everything you have written has been very helpful. You might appreciate some of the information on this link by Dick Sutphen--he was the first source I encountered who described how NLP is covertly used in a wide range of settings.


And if you go to [www.deikman.com,] go to 'cults' and select the article 'Evaluating Spiritual and Utopian Groups, you'll get common sense guidelines on how to assess your church. Deikman is a psychiatrist and a Sufi practitioner. He says that trance and fear and indoctrination are incompatible with spiritual development.

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: December 02, 2002 09:48AM

This may be a dumb question - is a trance state similar to being high on a psychedelic drug, like LSD, ayhuasca or Ecstasy? Supposedly, psychadelic drug researchers have come to the conclusion that spiritual ecstasy can be found in drugs (and their sincerity really cracks me up) based on their studies of indigenous groups and their use of botanicals in rituals. The effect of these botanicals is referred to as trance, which is way different than the trance state that I've learned about for instance in cults and\or Landmark.

Stanislaw Grof, who did a lot of research on LSD, also developed a "holotropic" breathing technique that supposedly matches the high of LSD, but the point was to reach the state spiritual "high" that meditation practice brings. Alan Watts spoke of this at many of his lectures back in the 60s and 70s. And if you go to MAPS.org or ErowidsVault.com, they would have you believe they are saving the materialistic societies by teaching how safe these substances are and how folks should be allowed to partake of whatever they want in the name of spiritual quests.

I came really close to falling for it and doing Ecstasy with my naturopath (to alleviate me of my rackets), but what kept me from doing so was the fact that the reading I did on Buddhism and Taoism - there is no goal, no state to achieve. This is it.

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: mavin ()
Date: December 02, 2002 11:31AM

Trances are also induced sometimes unintentionally by those using "relaxation techniques" of guided imagery.

Richard Sutpen, I have his tape and know what he says. The other guy, I don't. I might just have a look see. Thanks.

Trance states equals spirituality? "Problem is, some are sincerly convinced that trance states equal spirituality." You said.

Hmmm me thinks that you need to ignore what others think about that and concentrate on what works for you. Fear is not a tool of a church. Trance is not a tool of a church. Those are tools of control and exploitation.

As for evaluating a church, I will be my own guide. I got into trouble by listening to someone else before and now I will listen to my inner wisdom. For me I stay away from "churches" because they are all man made. I do my fellowshipping with people of character and my praying is now private.

For me an organized church is out of the question. It is my choice at this time. I have learned to rely more on my own mind and have learned to trust my own thoughts, perceptions and feelings. That was something that the cult messes with and tries to make one dependent upon them. I have learned to be independent.

Coming to this forum was a choice for me. I would rather fellowship with people like yourself than "church people" in general. I can't stand being preached at by "ministers" who misquote scripture (yes even real churches do that) and twist the scriptures to mean what they don't and misuse scripture to get money etc etc. I have been preached at for at least enough to last about 5 lifetimes, in my opinion so now I just hob nob with refugees from cults and churches. :) I find much nicer people in these places. :)

If you are very susceptable to trances, you need to be careful. I did go under hypnosis once because I wanted to get control back and I had to go into the mind control to do that. I worked with a therapist not in the capacity of "my" therapist, but got to know her and trust her in another capacity and then told her after about a year, of my cult involvement. She was stunned. Anyway, I allowed her to put me under Hypnosis and was able to get at some things that I could not deal with before. It seemed to work. I am also very trance sensitive and that p***es me off completely!!!! mad: However, I am better but the cult trip has become quite a long time ago. I still fight some of the trances. Residuals are still there. SO I understand your therapist's concern. Take care.

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: mavin ()
Date: December 03, 2002 01:29AM

I was in a scary family too. I do remember "splitting" sort of too. However, things were not so bad that I became mulitple. Sounds like that is the same for you.

The cult experience on top of the scary family thingie....and the induced trancing only makes us MORE susceptible to trance induction. Mavin

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: Hope ()
Date: December 03, 2002 04:43AM

Corboy and Mavin,

I was in a scary family, too, and they still are scary. My ND suggested that hypnosis was the only thing (other than a drug induced-state) that would "release" my trapped emotions. But then he would say how my control problems and trust issues would not allow me to "go under", once implying that I was a know-it-all. Months later, after not bringing up hypnosis again, was when he started suggesting that I didn't want to get well, that I had an answer for everything he suggested - which was untrue. I had tried almost everything he suggested - it cost me a fortune. But he always switched gears and would say how hard it was for me after all I had been through.

For me, he seemed so empathatic and in the first several months I really felt like he had the answers, which is what I understand happens to people in cults (they obviously don't know they are joining a cult). As much as this ordeal taught me, there's something about that narcissistic charisma that really draws me in, even when I'm on the alert. I guess if I do get sucked in again, I'll just need to really stick to boundaries at the first sign of contradictory actions or words.

What are some indications that someone is covertly using tra
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: December 04, 2002 01:21AM

if you want to know more about how a confusing, eclectic mixture of traditions and treatments can be used to disorient people, go to the forum thread for LGAT's and then go to the discussion of Landmark Forum. Hope and I had quite discussion there and I quoted from a book by a psychiatrist about how boundaries get disrupted in therapeutic relationships long before specific unethical behaviors take place.

As for charismatic, narcissistic people...I have been the most vulnerable when I have lacked confidence in myself, distrusted myself, and looked for someone or something outside of myself to supply what I thought I lacked. And when someone cultivates willpower, and perhaps adds some psychic giftedness to that, they do exert a magnetic attraction.

The key thing is that a narcissistic person's charisma is ego-driven. Underneath all the fascination, you will sense coercion and a desperate kind of hunger. Essentially the narcissistic person pulls attention toward themselves, and only themselves.

A real healer will attract your attention, but in a way that brings you home to yourself, home to who you are and what you know. You may not feel fascinated, but deep down, you feel grounded and free inside. You dont feel caught in a traction beam. Genuine healers attract attention to the truth they serve. Their personalities are not a distraction.

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