When a Guru Becomes Successful - Insights From Social Psychology (Quoted from above) Quote"He began to believe, that he was a savior and a hero, that he really was this “god” figure.” "He degenerated into a really paranoid, terrifying person.” How could this happen? Corboy recommends that readers learn about a couple of social psychology experiments -- one, termed by Cor
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Heard about this in a book entitled The No Asshole Rule. People can change for the worse if cosseted for years at a time by an entourage. What made the Stanford experiment radical was that behavior deteriorated persons randomly assigned to the leadership role - and in just a couple of hours. So imagine the impact of pampering on someone who has aggressively and persistently sought le
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Just now realized something. First, if someone privileges Vajrayana is special, so special that the findings of social psychologists do not apply to it, that there is no way anything in Vajrayana can replicate other forms of social control, that there is zero possiblity that ngondro contains elements that in other non Vajaryana contexts are linked to mind control -- thats to privilege Vajrayan
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quote1. You said in your last post: The obvious answer is to limit the practice to those who are grown-ups and who do not require a "daddy". What if the practice has the effect of eroding critical faculties and access to the normal range of emotions? What if the practices lead adults into regression and boundary erosion? Here are various things social psychologists have learned
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Take Ten Years to Evaluate a Teacher Before Making a Commitment..? Some might interpret this using the old proverb "Trust But Verify". But...this is not so easy to do. Corboy note: One commenter from the Rebuttal Article dialogue wrote this [quote]I think questioning is very important now and before, GMR (Geshe Michael Roach) always says investigate a possible teacher for 1
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hitch wrote: QuoteStreet shakubuku was insanity. There was even one incident where a member was robbed at gunpoint doing such activities; ironically, they ultimately came to view it as a "benefit" that they were not hurt and used it to strengthen their faith and practice. Not sure what to say that kind of thinking, other than what I've already said - it's insanity. H
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Instead of reading Patanjali and the Bhagavad Gita, every yoga student, newbie to advanced should be advised to read about what I call the Stanford Cookie Experiment It demonstrates that being in the leadership role carries a statistically significant probability that the assigned leader will demonstrate self seeking qualities - and this behavior showed up in persons randomly assigned to lead
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I echo The Anticult here--yes, yes, yes, some persons do move from one guru or group to another. And it has nothing to do with level of education or intelligence. One can be highly intelligent, have excellent education, and yet do this kind of guru or cult hopping. Hypnotic Induction that Carries Over From One Group to Another In the US, especially, we cling to the culturally entrenche
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Other reasons why it can be difficult to report an abusive teacher Above I listed some reasons why it is unrealistic to advise people to 'observe' a guru or teacher for years if need be, before deciding the teacher can be trusted--one can, after those years have passed, become socialized and lose ability to take any objective stance. A teacher's bad behavior can start to seem &
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteJB, on April 17, 2010 at 8:20 am said: Thank you, Sogyal Rinpoche devotee for your neutral portrayal of the situation ‘as it really is’ as you put it. Please be aware, those here speaking of first hand experiences are not liars. Those who have seen it happen to colleagues are not liars.The journalistic writers of various pieces in the media have not been sued. The book authors who h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

A discussion on Dialogue Ireland
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteViolations of trust are not healed by those who are on the receiving end of the violations. In the sense of transformative, or healing justice it is those who have committed the harmful actions who, by realizing the harm done, instigate dialogue and attempt amends with the help of the community . Discussions both here and on Dialogue Ireland concerning DW exist because the attempts to h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And---all the features of a safe group leader remain that way. RRmoderator stated: " A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight." A democratic arrangement is insurance against a leader, however excellent, someday being corrupted by the role. Or being replaced by another leader who takes your group in a cultic direc
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Possible Sugestions for Education Hype machines and PR keep a lot of these entities alive. It would be good in education projects to point out the extent to which any guru or human potential type is a product of marketing. People need to understand derivative legitimacy--that rooms can be rented at hospitals, universities, honorable retreat centers and Buddhist practice centers. It doesn
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteWhen I was first invited to School, the bigest question on my mind was "Is this a cult?" I firmly belive that that should remain a question for every student, whether it's their 1st year in School or their 30th year. QuoteAnd the second question that every new student has needs to be asked, too -- "Where does the money go?" Right on--and for both questions. H
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Being in a leadership role, even if randomly assigned and for only a couple of hours can change a person. If someone has actually SOUGHT leadership and then been in that role for years (doesnt matter if they call themselves 'teacher' or 'life coach' or 'author)..years of having an entourage, years of being looked up to, the cynosure of all eyes.. that, in the light of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotecult like behaviour has emerged despite the good intentions of those in control. What it boils down to IMO is that if someone has sought leadnership and is then in the leadership role for too long and without and without restraints and corrective community processes, this has a corrupting influence, and no belief system however excellent in itself, is enough to compensate. Some tim
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

On the subject of leaders behaving badly -- this is from the "Cults, Sex and New Religious Movements" Board, "Sex/Sexuality Within Cults" thread. -----------------------------------Beginning of Quote---------------------------------------------------------------- Let us look at Professor Deborah Gruenfeld's experiment--what I term the Stanford Cookie Experiment.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

The Whoring of Yoga This phrase was written by an ex-SYDA yoga devotee in 1995. Little did that person imagine that years later, we would be coping with Oprah and with Eat, Pay Love That same writer noted: Quote'...any decent person would agree that oldtimers who have seen abuses should speak out to newcomers, since nowadays (1995)a knowledge of the SYDA lies is hard and dangerous
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Adult power relations are immensely interesting human phenomena. Oprah has power only because her audience allow her that power. Similarly, a person can be randomly assigned a power postion--as in the cookie experiment--but cannot be randomly assigned to hold power. Nominating a person to a power position does not automatically confer power on that person. The person can only gain power when
Forum: Celebrities associated with "cult-like" groups

One can risk being co-opted into the guru role, even one starts with the most sincere intention not to be anyones guru. There is something I private term the Stanford Cookie Experiment which illustrates the hazards of being assigned randomly to a power position, even if for a few hours. QuoteQuote: Gaining power puts the powerholder at increased risk of misdoing. Let us look at the Stanf
Forum: Celebrities associated with "cult-like" groups

Here is another way to look at this Great Sacrifice scenario. If a charismatic leader does something dramatic that 'crosses the line' this can have the effect of sifting out and retaining hard core Faithful, ready to rationalize anything the leader does, while those who just cannot stomach the new challenge leave. Result: an overall loss in numbers, but the ones who do remain f
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Koan For the Day Is Marketing, designed to identify and increase cravings, compatible with Dharma which is meant to apply insight to craving? Feel free to share this where you suspect it might enrich any discussion. And give your best bow and good wishes to Richard Sutton of Stanford University, for it was through his book that I learned of the Cookie Experiment. Philip Zimbardo&
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Gassho Corboy -- an exemplary analysis. I love the Stanford Cookie experiment. It takes the biscuit..... On the basis that internet material is open access, I am pasting your post onto Dialogue Ireland. It is more likely to be read there by Sogyal's enablers than it is here. They NEED to read it. But the chance of an epiphany from within the close circle is remote. They have invested too m
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Without a climate of accountablity, a climate of accountability that is part of normal media coverage, Buddhist leaders will lack a very important restraining principle. What I call the Stanford Cookie Experiment may account for many cases of guru greediness for power, wealth and a sense of entitlement to use the sanga for a sexual supermarket. What can seriously aggravate this is a lack o
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Dear Confused, here, here. I wish I had read that information sooner, but it was not available to me, in my time of need, back in what was then the pre-Internet era. A good character test is to see how someone treats wait staff, janitors, anyone old or vulnerable. As Sutton warns, any of us can be an occasional asshole. But when its an established pattern--eg serial bullying, someone wh
Forum: Abusive and Controlling Relationships

At the end of her memoir describing how Andrew Cohen changed from a formerly considerate and gentle son into a brute and a woman hating bully, Luna Tarlo could only guess that the root cause was the intoxication of attaining absolute power over a group, via the mythical infallibility attributed to enlightenment--and to the guru role. Devoted disciples who become troubled by a guru's abusi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteRadha Krishna dasI do not speak for Srila Prabhupad, only for myself as someone who tries to be a devotee. One does not need to be an expert in physics to realise that you can't get back to the top of a hill that steep by back-peddaling :lol: QuoteClearly I am imperfect for stating in frustration at reading such offences that a pure devotee would not say such words, since a pure
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"