Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 05, 2011 11:24PM
[forum.culteducation.com]
Quote
ZM, I have not yet found any reliable descriptions or complaints that ZM fits the criteria given by Robert J Lifton, the psychiatrist whose studies represent the standard for assessing these matters.
The information we have so far is the following:
1) ZM groups deleted by German equivalent of Facebook. What I think is telling is how little sensitivity the discussants had with Germany's well founded anxieties about potential terrorism, given both Nazism, and Germanys later, traumatic experiences with domestic terrorism between 1968-77.
These futurologists appear to have showed little care or care or consideration for the price Germany, the host nation of that particular venue, has paid at the hands of terrorists--both Nazis and the communist/anticapitalist/anarchist groups just 35-40 years ago.
[thezeitgeistmovement.com]
2)Fresco recognized as an honorary guide by the leader of the Raelians, a group in the Ross Institute archives.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
As for Larouche--am not sure how close any connection is with ZM Per the Washington PAC ZM chaper, some ZM discussants seem sympathetic with LR , but some dont agree totally, either.
3)A citation appears to refer to an upcoming debate between Fresco and Larouche but
if one reads the post, it is not news but actually expresses one correspondants hope that such a debate could someday take place. The discussant goes on to say that he or she doesnt agree totally with Larouche but that LR has valuable tools to offer to ZM. Doenst prove an association though.
[www.google.com]
4) Venus Project, of which ZM claims itself the activist and communications arm, is listed as recipient of support from Triodos Bank, which was originally named Mercury Provident and has its origins in Anthroposophy, the spin off of Theosophy created by Rudolf Steiner.
Triodos claimed to have severed its formal associations with Anthroposophy in recent years, but as many former Waldorf parents have complained, Anthroposophists feel entitled to withold full facts from non Anthroposophists--for their own good.
Steiner, like Fresco had the belief that the right planned environment could accelerate human evolution.
[wedreambusiness.org]
So...right now, I see nothing available to indicate that ZM is a cult in the precise sense.
Now..let us look at comments about Jared Loughner the young man in Arizona who is the reported shooter and who is charged with attacking and injuring Congresswoman Gifford, killing a federal judge, and wounding and killing several other citizens, the last of whom was a nine year old girl.
Finally there Jared Loughner. [www.google.com]
But here is where matters become delicate. Proving something to a standard acceptable by law is hard to do, especially in a case like this, namely whether a specific ideology played a signficant and iin Loughner's pattern of behavior
It is possible that Loughner was influenced not by a specific group but by a stew of various and sundry conspiracy ideas available within what has been termed 'cultic milieu'.
Cultic Milieu versus Cults
Cultic milieu has to do with ideas and beliefs outside of the mainstream.
Cults as defined by Lifton, are defined not in terms of unusual beliefs, but behaviors.
Had Loughner been socialized as a Protestant in England during the scares concerning Roman Catholic plots against the realm, he might perhaps have become obsessed with the evils of the Papacy and obtained his material not from the internet, which then would not have existed, but from newsheets, conversation in the coffeehouses, and inflammatory sermons--all of which where the social media of that time.
**My private and non-expert citizen's opinion is that sociologically, ZM and Venus Project do fit in with what sociologists refer to as 'cultic milieu'--a stew of alternatives and ideas rejected by mainstream society--and derive their appeal precisely by being outside of mainstream society.
I wish to re-emphasize that cultic milieu, a term that originated with sociologist Colin Campbell and has since been refined by other sociologists is not the same as cult behavior as defined by psychiatrist Robert J Lifton.
Another point, which is delicate and requires some deep reflection is that socializing within the cultic milieu can increase risk of becoming socialized in such a way that one lets one's caution or critical thinking skills lapse and become more vulnerable to recruitment.
But one need to be in any way involved with cultic milieu to be targeted by a really aggressive cult. As you know all too well, some cults (eg Sharon Gans, Landmark) can be so deceitful and/or intrusive that their recruiters will hit on persons who are no where near the cultic milieu--as in an authoritarian boss hitting on employees to do Landmark or lose promotion opportunities.
There have been comments in the news linking Jared Loughner the shooter who attacked Congresswoman Gifford--that he was supposedly obessed with ZM and its conspiracy theories.
My private citizen's hunch is that possibly cultic milieu may be more helpful in understanding Jared Loughner.
From reports, Loughner was into conspiracy theory material that is shared among very many different organizations and individuals, not just ZM.
As suggestd above, Loughner, already troubled might have acted out violently, referening other material to validate his anguish and behavior had he been living in a different time and place.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
VTV
()
Date: March 06, 2011 12:10AM
Quote
corboy
http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,98081,98374#msg-98374Quote
ZM, I have not yet found any reliable descriptions or complaints that ZM fits the criteria given by Robert J Lifton, the psychiatrist whose studies represent the standard for assessing these matters.
The information we have so far is the following:
1) ZM groups deleted by German equivalent of Facebook. What I think is telling is how little sensitivity the discussants had with Germany's well founded anxieties about potential terrorism, given both Nazism, and Germanys later, traumatic experiences with domestic terrorism between 1968-77.
These futurologists appear to have showed little care or care or consideration for the price Germany, the host nation of that particular venue, has paid at the hands of terrorists--both Nazis and the communist/anticapitalist/anarchist groups just 35-40 years ago.
[thezeitgeistmovement.com]
2)Fresco recognized as an honorary guide by the leader of the Raelians, a group in the Ross Institute archives.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
As for Larouche--am not sure how close any connection is with ZM Per the Washington PAC ZM chaper, some ZM discussants seem sympathetic with LR , but some dont agree totally, either.
3)A citation appears to refer to an upcoming debate between Fresco and Larouche but
if one reads the post, it is not news but actually expresses one correspondants hope that such a debate could someday take place. The discussant goes on to say that he or she doesnt agree totally with Larouche but that LR has valuable tools to offer to ZM. Doenst prove an association though.
[www.google.com]
4) Venus Project, of which ZM claims itself the activist and communications arm, is listed as recipient of support from Triodos Bank, which was originally named Mercury Provident and has its origins in Anthroposophy, the spin off of Theosophy created by Rudolf Steiner.
Triodos claimed to have severed its formal associations with Anthroposophy in recent years, but as many former Waldorf parents have complained, Anthroposophists feel entitled to withold full facts from non Anthroposophists--for their own good.
Steiner, like Fresco had the belief that the right planned environment could accelerate human evolution.
[wedreambusiness.org]
So...right now, I see nothing available to indicate that ZM is a cult in the precise sense.
Now..let us look at comments about Jared Loughner the young man in Arizona who is the reported shooter and who is charged with attacking and injuring Congresswoman Gifford, killing a federal judge, and wounding and killing several other citizens, the last of whom was a nine year old girl.
Finally there Jared Loughner. [www.google.com]
But here is where matters become delicate. Proving something to a standard acceptable by law is hard to do, especially in a case like this, namely whether a specific ideology played a signficant and iin Loughner's pattern of behavior
It is possible that Loughner was influenced not by a specific group but by a stew of various and sundry conspiracy ideas available within what has been termed 'cultic milieu'.
Cultic Milieu versus Cults
Cultic milieu has to do with ideas and beliefs outside of the mainstream.
Cults as defined by Lifton, are defined not in terms of unusual beliefs, but behaviors.
Had Loughner been socialized as a Protestant in England during the scares concerning Roman Catholic plots against the realm, he might perhaps have become obsessed with the evils of the Papacy and obtained his material not from the internet, which then would not have existed, but from newsheets, conversation in the coffeehouses, and inflammatory sermons--all of which where the social media of that time.
**My private and non-expert citizen's opinion is that sociologically, ZM and Venus Project do fit in with what sociologists refer to as 'cultic milieu'--a stew of alternatives and ideas rejected by mainstream society--and derive their appeal precisely by being outside of mainstream society.
I wish to re-emphasize that cultic milieu, a term that originated with sociologist Colin Campbell and has since been refined by other sociologists is not the same as cult behavior as defined by psychiatrist Robert J Lifton.
Another point, which is delicate and requires some deep reflection is that socializing within the cultic milieu can increase risk of becoming socialized in such a way that one lets one's caution or critical thinking skills lapse and become more vulnerable to recruitment.
But one need to be in any way involved with cultic milieu to be targeted by a really aggressive cult. As you know all too well, some cults (eg Sharon Gans, Landmark) can be so deceitful and/or intrusive that their recruiters will hit on persons who are no where near the cultic milieu--as in an authoritarian boss hitting on employees to do Landmark or lose promotion opportunities.
There have been comments in the news linking Jared Loughner the shooter who attacked Congresswoman Gifford--that he was supposedly obessed with ZM and its conspiracy theories.
My private citizen's hunch is that possibly cultic milieu may be more helpful in understanding Jared Loughner.
From reports, Loughner was into conspiracy theory material that is shared among very many different organizations and individuals, not just ZM.
As suggestd above, Loughner, already troubled might have acted out violently, referening other material to validate his anguish and behavior had he been living in a different time and place.
I just corresponded with Roxanne Meadows via email after giving her the link to this "bank".
"What is that website? They seemed to do a good description with the brief scan that I gave it. What do you mean we are listed as an affiliate with Tridos Bank. I never heard of them."
When your doing something public, it is not uncommon for organizations to clam affiliation with you. The Venus Project has no idea what the Triodos bank is.
As for the "Raelian" issue, it is also well know that the Raelian organization will give people "awards" who do not even interact with them. This is an attempt to draw attention to themselves. Jacque Fresco has no interest in the Raelians and does not interact with them.
Finally, the Loughner issue I covered on my blog:
[v-radioblog.blogspot.com]
Exposing the connection of the Zeitgeist Movement to Jared Loughner
By Neil Kiernan.
When terrible things happen, people do their best to make sense of them. We are desperate to find answers to the question of “Why?” So why did Jared Loughner buy a gun, and shoot Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords? Why did he then turn and shoot everyone in sight including a nine year old child?
Recently Fox News interviewed someone named Zachary Osler who claims to of been friends with Loughner. And this is what brings us to talking about the following quote:
“I really think that this ‘Zeitgeist’ documentary had a profound impact upon Jared Loughner’s mindset and how he viewed the world that he lives in,” he said.”
Fox went on to elaborate that the Zeitgeist series of films railed on currency based economics. They also pointed out that this fellow had not spoken to Loughner in about two years. Meaning it's highly possible that Loughner had never seen “Zeitgeist: Addendum” and obviously never would have had the chance to see “Zeitgeist: Moving Forward” before these attacks. But even the first Zeitgeist film did not condone or suggest violence.
Initially when this tragedy went down the right-wing conservative “Tea Party” movement and their extreme views was blamed. There is one place where the Libertarian movement and Zeitgeist intersected. And that was the portion of the first film about the Federal Reserve. I myself learned about Zeitgeist because a lot of people who were supporters of Congressman Ron Paul suggested that part of the film to explain the Federal Reserve's origins. This portion of the film is also what put Zeitgeist on the government's radar, as we have seen law enforcement documents that link the first film to militia movements, and other organizations suspected of possible terrorist activity.
Since then, Peter Joseph went on to make the film “Zeitgeist Addendum” and now “Zeitgeist: Moving Forward” which both take a stance that is vastly different then the Free Market Economical ideas advocated by Libertarians, Right-wing Conservatives and the Tea Party movement. In fact both of these later films are highly critical of the Free Market ideology. And rightly so.
Anyone who has actually taken the time to watch the Zeitgeist film series knows that there is nothing in any of these movies that suggest violence as a means to achieve political ends. Point of fact the Venus Project which the Zeitgeist Movement is the activist arm of, openly condemns violence or coercion as a tool to reach any social goals. Not only because it is immoral and wrong to engage in such activity, but because it doesn't even work. Acts of violence are a great way to cast your views in a negative light. And that is exactly what is happening here. The difference is nobody in the Zeitgeist Movement, or affiliated in any way with the Venus Project committed these acts of violence. They are being falsely attributed to the Zeitgeist films and therefore the movement itself.
The Right-wing Conservative movement is now seizing an opportunity to save itself by pointing the finger squarely at the Zeitgeist Films. Rush Limbaugh in all of his bluster had this to say:
“It wasn't just Zeitgeist. " According to reports, Loughner's favorites included little-known conspiracy theory documentaries such as 'Zeitgeist' and 'Loose Change' as well as ... 'Donnie Darko' and 'A Scanner Darkly.'" Now, Zeitgeist is "a 2007 documentary that asserts Jesus Christ is a myth, that 9/11 was orchestrated by the government, and that bankers manipulate the international monetary system and the media in order to consolidate power." So a conspiracy movie (put together by deranged leftists, it turns out) appears to be, according to his best friend, the most influential media of this young man's life.”
Limbaugh's other statements basically go to blame the whole thing on the “Left”. In typical fashion we watch as the people who are still duped into believing that being “Right” or “Left” actually means something point fingers at each other in desperation hoping to use tragedy to sway public opinion against their opposition. This of course goes both ways. The left was very quick to point the finger at the right as well. Which is what provoked Limbaugh's response in the first place.
So lets break this down a bit further. Does it even make sense that someone supposedly inspired by “Leftist Conspiracy nuts” would take a mind to shooting a Democratic Congresswoman? Considering the Democratic party is deeply rooted in the left? Obviously that's silly. In the recent 2010 election Congresswoman Giffords was a political target for the right-wing Tea Party movement. This is where the infamous “cross-hairs” pictures associated with Sarah Palin and her political action committee came from. On the website there were cross-hairs over a picture of Giffords along with other members of the Democratic Party in Congress. The Tea Party rallied in support of her opponent in the race, a Republican by the name of Jesse Kelly. So again, why would someone inspired by extreme leftist views decide to shoot her?
It is true that the first Zeitgeist film was very critical of the government. But that is not something that by any means is exclusive to the left. As I previously pointed out I found out about the first Zeitgeist film because of my previous deep involvement with the right. “Loose Change” is not what I would call “Left-Wing”. In fact the filmmakers work closely with Alex Jones who is quite obviously on the right, and advocate of Free Market ideology who frequently has Congressman Ron Paul and the new Senator Rand Paul on his show. “911 Truth” is not right or left. There are people on both sides who have this interest.
“Zeitgeist Addendum” is a film that is critical not only of governments but of corporations. And the monetary system itself. It goes after the bankers, and then it goes after money and the profit motive. It then goes on to suggest that war, corruption, poverty, etc are all caused directly or indirectly through the use of money. It strongly advises that people look into renewable energy sources, and ecologically sound practices. These messages are also conveyed through the Venus Project. First, lets take a look at the reported political views of one Jerald Loughner.
Jerald Loughner was really big on the Constitution.
In a video called “Introduction: Jared Loughner” he writes, “No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not backed by gold and silver!”
In his youtube video series he seems to go back and forth between the idea that we should bring back the gold standard, and the idea that people should just make their own currency. His videos are largely full of rambling. At no point has he ever suggested a Resource Based Economy as proposed by the Zeitgeist Movement.
The idea of returning to a gold standard is highly popular in circles on the right, Ron Paul and his followers have spoken highly of such an idea. The idea of getting rid of the Federal Reserve is very popular in that circle. A gold standard however is not at all suggested in “Zeitgeist Addendum” or “Zeitgeist: Moving Forward”. Neither is the idea of making one's own currency. We advocate using technology to evolve mankind beyond the need for currency or monetary exchange at all.
Fox News claimed it had seen a Department of Homeland Security memo which said Jared Lee Loughner, 22, had ties to American Renaissance, which is staunchly anti-immigration, anti-government and anti-Semitic.
Arizona Republican Gabrielle Giffords, the target of the mass killing, is ‘the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate,’ according the DHS memo.
There is not a shred of anything racist, much less anti-Semitic in any of the Zeitgeist films. The Zeitgeist movement seeks a world that will eventually be without borders, and obviously has no issue therefore with immigration policy.
So taking all of this into account, lets look for a moment at what kind of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was. She was given a progressive (left) score of 41 out of 100 by “That's my Congress” due to her voting record. She was only given a Conservative rating of 11 out of 100. Again, this is not making a good case for the idea that some evil leftist documentary convinced someone to kill her.
Most of her voting record was fairly typical politician. She supported a lot of centrist views. But was really big on one issue that was very important to most members of the Zeitgeist Movement. Renewable energy.
She voted in favor of and sponsored several bills in support of renewable energy, and always praises efforts of various government agencies to switch to renewable energy. This is a statement from her website:
“I believe we need to move towards energy independence both for our national security and for the safety of our planet. That is why my sixth vote in the 110th Congress in support of H.R. 6 was to repeal subsides for oil companies and invest those funds in renewable energy.
As a member of the House Committee on Science and Technology and its Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment, I remain committed to making energy independence one of my top priorities in Congress.
Ending America’s addiction to foreign oil, investing in renewable energy—especially solar—and achieving energy independence is the Apollo mission of our generation. The U.S. Energy Information Administration states that Arizona’s large desert areas offer the highest solar power potential in America. Arizona has over 300 days of sunshine every year, and, according to the U.S. Department of Energy, we have the potential to produce over 150% of our state’s energy demand with solar energy.
Solar energy is clean, safe and noiseless. However, we currently only get less than 1% of our energy from solar power. We should do much more to make Southern Arizona the “Solar-con Valley” of the nation. I have introduced two bills in Congress to make this vision a reality and developed my Community Solar Energy Initiative—a four point plan to promote solar energy, including: legislation, education and outreach, accountability and transparency, and a solar energy advisory committee. I am determined to lead America in energy independence. I support:
a goal of 20% renewable energy use by 2020; increasing fuel economy standards for our vehicles to save drivers money at the pump, lessen our dependence on foreign oil, and reduce air pollution and greenhouse gases; increasing and extending federal tax credits for homeowners and businesses who install solar panels; encouraging the development of fuels like ethanol and bio fuels, and
increasing research and development for renewable energy, such as solar, wind, and geothermal.
The road to energy independence will take cooperation and leadership at the local, state, and federal levels of government. I am committed to working across the aisle to make it possible for our children and grandchildren enjoy a clean, healthy environment in our beautiful state of Arizona and across the nation.”
On that same website pictures of solar panels decorate the top margin.
I would point out that her support for renewable energy projects is directly in line with the principles of the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement. Would be nice if she would catch up issues like the Iraq War. Though she does support a reasonable time frame for withdrawal, but not an immediate one.
In short, I see no reason at all why anyone influenced by any of the Zeitgeist films would hate this woman. Let alone want to shoot her. It's pretty clear people on the right didn't like her politics.
So what motives do we have that are likely?
Well, for one Loughner was known as obsessed with lucid dreaming. And did a lot of hallucinogenic drugs. Friends of his stated that he used a lot of Salvia. And an ex-girlfriend recently interviewed stated he used hallucinogenic mushrooms. He was extremely into the idea that people could mold their own reality. And therefore showed a lot of signs of being out of touch with it. People stated that he had an interest in rocking the boat and pushing people's buttons. Supposedly this is why he listed Mein Kamph as one of his favorite books. He apparently had a lot of problems with authority in general. And like many people who have gone down that road he also seemed to feel that the authority of reality itself should not apply to him.
For this reason Jerald Loughner's crime can exist without a tangible motive. Meaning that whatever he may of dreamed up in his head could have been the cause. His shattered sense of reality could of produced any number of reasons that did not in any way have to adhere to logic. As Peter Joseph stated in his own statement on the matter, the real culprit here is the system that creates these people.
In conclusion, I am sure many of you have heard me say on my show and in my blogs that the right or left paradigm is a distraction. As people rush to point their fingers at the opposing side in situations like this the real root causes will be forever lost to most people. The right will continue to say it is the fault of the left. The left will continue to say it is the fault of the right. When the real culprit is the elephant in the room. The problems that both the right and the left ignore or leave out of their ideologies. And like many other situations just like this the truth of the matter will be buried underneath layer and layer of propaganda. Forever blinded by their need to gain rank over their opposition, reality of these situations is a casualty of war, the war for your mind.
In exposing this "connection" as the media has called it, we find no connection at all.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 06, 2011 12:12AM
There is a very long list of FAQs on the Venus Projects own website. Some, to me, stand out.
81 Would the Venus Project be for deviants? (why didnt the website re-write that question in more gracious language?
82 What would be done with that percentage of society that would be agitators or malcontent such as Timothy McVeigh who were brought up with a normal upbringing?
85 Do you advocate killing people with aberrant behavior? (In most discussions of Utopias, this isnt usually asked so baldly. What warrants concern for us is that TVP appeared to attract enough queries of this kind that this rated inclusion in the VP's FAQs (!) )
91 Many people claim that when spirituality fails in bringing up social changes, the use of violence is rationalized. Do you agree with this opinion?
If we don't make the appropriate moves there will be violence. It has nothing to do with wishes or aspirations. We feel our direction can translate spiritual teachings into a working reality that avoids violence.
Here is the full list of Venus Project FAQs
can be read here
[www.thevenusproject.com]
That some of these questions were asked frequently enough to make it into an FAQ list does indicate that some rather err....interesting....persons are attracted to VP. If a critical mass of what do we do with deviants? members get together and hijack VP at a future date, then the movement could perhaps turn into something different than what it is today.
However this is not enough to meet Robert J Lifton's criteria for whether VP ZM is a cult.
It is enough to assist some citizens to decide whether they want to be part of it.
There is another reason why the VP FAQs are worthy of our attention.
If anyone were at a later time, start a school or commune based on VP material and any GLBT* children (who often do not yet know they are GLBT)were to find themselves in such a place, and if parents were not clearly told up front what the actual ideology of the school consisted of, then, harm reports might come in.
*LGBT means Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender
And it would be important for purposes of honesty if such schools were set up to tell parents fully and clearly in advance the full details of the ideology so parents can make a full and informed choice on whether a VP school or camp would be the best for their child/ren.
VP would do well to avoid the pattern that many parents complain of concerning schools run on the principles of Anthroposophy/Steinerism, aka Waldorf schools. These parents many of them--complain that they are not told in full and up front, the actual belief system and religion that actually underlies the methods used and materials taught in the schools.
So if VP ever gets into the education business or childcare, they should give full disclosure of the actual ideology and not withold information on the grounds of people 'not yet being ready for it.'
For the moment, looking at the German situation, I think speaks for itself is that as futurologists the ZM people showed so little interest in the history of Germany, and why its history of terrorism (state sponsored as well as anarchist) would have lead the German Facebook to take the stance that it took in bumping ZM. Such disregard for the history of a nation hosting a media outlet one is using, and is at the very least, a sign of bad manners or naivete
Though bad manners and naivete are not by themselves enough to meet Lifton's criteria for a full on cult, these are enough to assist citizens to decide whether this is a project they wish to associate with or not..
81 Would the Venus Project be for deviants? (why didnt the website re-write that question in more gracious language?
82 What would be done with that percentage of society that would be agitators or malcontent such as Timothy McVeigh who were brought up with a normal upbringing?
85 Do you advocate killing people with aberrant behavior? (In most discussions of Utopias, this isnt usually asked so baldly. What warrants concern for us is that TVP appeared to attract enough queries of this kind that this rated inclusion in the VP's FAQs (!) )
91 Many people claim that when spirituality fails in bringing up social changes, the use of violence is rationalized. Do you agree with this opinion?
If we don't make the appropriate moves there will be violence. It has nothing to do with wishes or aspirations. We feel our direction can translate spiritual teachings into a working reality that avoids violence.
Here is the full list of Venus Project FAQs
can be read here
[www.thevenusproject.com]
That some of these questions were asked frequently enough to make it into an FAQ list does indicate that some rather err....interesting....persons are attracted to VP. If a critical mass of what do we do with deviants? members get together and hijack VP at a future date, then the movement could perhaps turn into something different than what it is today.
However this is not enough to meet Robert J Lifton's criteria for whether VP ZM is a cult.
It is enough to assist some citizens to decide whether they want to be part of it.
There is another reason why the VP FAQs are worthy of our attention.
If anyone were at a later time, start a school or commune based on VP material and any GLBT* children (who often do not yet know they are GLBT)were to find themselves in such a place, and if parents were not clearly told up front what the actual ideology of the school consisted of, then, harm reports might come in.
*LGBT means Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender
And it would be important for purposes of honesty if such schools were set up to tell parents fully and clearly in advance the full details of the ideology so parents can make a full and informed choice on whether a VP school or camp would be the best for their child/ren.
VP would do well to avoid the pattern that many parents complain of concerning schools run on the principles of Anthroposophy/Steinerism, aka Waldorf schools. These parents many of them--complain that they are not told in full and up front, the actual belief system and religion that actually underlies the methods used and materials taught in the schools.
So if VP ever gets into the education business or childcare, they should give full disclosure of the actual ideology and not withold information on the grounds of people 'not yet being ready for it.'
For the moment, looking at the German situation, I think speaks for itself is that as futurologists the ZM people showed so little interest in the history of Germany, and why its history of terrorism (state sponsored as well as anarchist) would have lead the German Facebook to take the stance that it took in bumping ZM. Such disregard for the history of a nation hosting a media outlet one is using, and is at the very least, a sign of bad manners or naivete
Though bad manners and naivete are not by themselves enough to meet Lifton's criteria for a full on cult, these are enough to assist citizens to decide whether this is a project they wish to associate with or not..
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
james kush
()
Date: March 06, 2011 02:14AM
I have never been banned by the zeitgeist movement forum, in fact, I have never posted. i am a vocal opponent of this group that does indeed have common cult characteristics altho none have been fully presented here on this site. In fact, I became a critic of the "movement" after realizing their deceptive recruiting tactics. Here is a rough outline of some basic elements that I feel constitute some similarities in the "zeitgeist movement" and this rick ross Q&A page as well as a a segment by Lifton on brainwashing. It would take another week for more evidence (video,audio, screenshots) of these allegations but I have included some evidence for the information i present. In a nutshell, this is a rough draft:
Destructive Cult Control
How can cults use communication to control people?
"One example is through "loading the language," a feature of thought reform, characterized by thought terminating cliches. Such cliches are easily memorized phrases and terms that essentially become communication shortcuts or "ultimate terms." This can have the effect of stopping critical thinking and independent analysis, essentially restricting and ultimately often constricting the mind." [www.culteducation.com]
Here is a prime example of the founder of zeitgeist movement Peter Joseph creating a "thought terminating cliche":
Hey Everyone.
Please note that my response actually has nothing to do with the writer in question as he is really an abstraction within a larger context. [We all understand what it means to be a victim of culture and circumstance.] My expression here is contextual to "The Circus" which Sam is "on tour" with. I haven't read his new response nor will I as it is irrelevant here. My overall point is to encourage others to simply recognize this pattern of thought we are seeing grow.
In time, NBC, ABC or the like will be toting this same "cult" rhetoric or something very close to it. So, rather than be surprised by "The Circus" when it comes to town, please expect it/understand it and look at it as a form of entertainment.
For those who do not know what "The Circus" is, it has to do with blatantly derogatory rhetoric which, rather than addressing a governing principle of a RBE, which TZM and TVP are seeking to create awareness of and institute, it attacks angles which are irrelevant and/or out of context - propping them up as though they mean something - always avoiding the core positions presented by The Movement.
Tell-tale signs of The Circus are labels/contexts like "cult" "conspiracy theorist" "communist" "new world order" "Marxist" "satanist" "theosophist" "anti-freedom" "anti-semetic" "racist" and other blanket distinctions which are both ambiguous and culturally objectionable on average.
What you don't hear from The Circus is anything that is specific to the tenets of the work itself. Such as recognition of the problems we consider or the viability of the solutions we offer in a specific way. The Circus will not discuss the Debt Collapse which is not stopping and why. The Circus will not present the gross negligence of having a Market system based on unneeded/yet demanded Cyclical Consumption. The Circus will not consider the impediment of an Infinite Growth Economy and the dangerously wasteful/unsustainable nature of such a practice. The Circus doesn't seem to care that 1% of the world owns 40% of the planet's wealth and that a global Plutocracy is at hand as one child dies every 5 secs of starvation. The Circus will not evaluate the monetary driven psychosocial pressures which generate generation after generation of addiction, mental health issues, violence, familial deprivation and countless other issues.
The Circus doesn't care about Public Health or anything that has to do with social improvement. -Peter Joseph Merola [www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Another loaded language phrase includes the classic Zeitgeist, "the movie is not the movement" thought terminating cliche. Basically, the members have been instructed to not consider any arguments about the namesake film of the movement, "Zeitgeist". Here is a member obviously drunk with indoctrination using this cliche in a youtube video:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKKE8tu8p8]
How is "coercive persuasion" really different from normal persuasion?
Essentially, coercive persuasion relies largely upon thought reform techniques and may also utilize unreasonable fear to compel people to change. Through such a process many can be changed without their knowledge and/or informed consent. This is done in a rigid way that frequently precludes any meaningful exchange of ideas, is fairly one-sided and seems to have little respect for differences. Margaret Singer clinical psychologist and author of the book "Cults in Our Midst" made distinctions between various types of persuasion such as education, advertising, propaganda, indoctrination and thought reform. [www.culteducation.com]
The fear tactics Zeitgeist uses is conspiracy. Basically, these people have been convinced that the economic end is near and the goal is to prepare for a violent introduction of a new peaceful unified global order Peter Merola calls "Perfection" and Jacque Fresco calls "Heaven on Earth". A example of fear tactic based propaganda as presented by Stacy McCain:
[theothermccain.com]
What "unreasonable fears" do many cult members have?
These are fears often not based upon objective reality, such as bizarre conspiracy theories, baseless projections of an impending catastrophe, crisis and/or physical danger. [www.culteducation.com]
How can cults control information?
Information is controlled in many cults by creating strict rules and/or guidelines regarding such things as books and outside reading, television, movies, radio, music and often even restricting associations with anyone who might express independent ideas, doubts or negative feelings about the group. The group and its leader(s) thus may become much like a filter, supposedly needed to help eliminate the "pollution", "poisons" and negativity of the outside world. [www.culteducation.com]
The Zeitgeist forums for discussion is a heavily filtered and censored forum. People will get immediately banned and IP blocked for raising criticisms considered hostile to the movement ( On Jan 14th 2011 blocked and banned: [forum.culteducation.com]). In some cases, complete threads will be erased, or in the case of the radio program used by zeitgeist, complete radio episodes will be removed. In addition, the common use of "thought terminating cliches" by the zeitgeist movement is the biggest form of information control.
Destructive Cult Recruitment
Are cults and other controversial groups deceptive when they recruit people?
Yes, they often are. They may employ deception in the recruitment process by using front organizational names and/or not clearly identifying themselves or their purpose. For example, a religious cult may not even initially advise potential recruits that it has a religious agenda. Groups with controversial leaders may withhold that information and also keep their more radical beliefs hidden or secret until they achieve more influence and compliance thorough their indoctrination process. [www.culteducation.com]
When recruiting members, Zeitgeist does not share its conspiracy aspects and hides its disdain for God and Christianity as a whole. If confronted about the film, the members resort to the thought terminating cliche "THE MOVIES ARE NOT THE MOVEMENT". According to Peter Joseph, the growth of the Zeitgeist Movement is in fact due to the first film, "Zeitgeist". These members who do in fact agree with the conspiratorial and religious beliefs of the founder then use the Venus Project as a tool for recruiting. If you research Zeitgeist "activism" on youtube, you will find them spreading the "positive" outer layers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK3IpvahQqc) while completely avoiding the Zeitgeist Movement inner core beliefs of religion, spirituality, conspiracy, etc.
ZEITGEIST MEMBER ENGAGED IN DECEPTIVE RECRUITING:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfGHYW-aErM&feature=player_embedded]
Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism
The Demand for Purity
In the thought reform milieu, as in all situations of ideological totalism, the experiential world is sharply divided into the pure and the impure, into the absolutely good and the absolutely evil. The good and the pure are of course those ideas, feelings, and actions which are consistent with the totalist ideology and policy; anything else is apt to be relegated to the bad and the impure. Nothing human is immune from the flood of stern moral judgments. All "taints" and "poisons" which contribute to the existing state of impurity must be searched out and eliminated.
Thought reform bears witness to its more malignant consequences: for by defining and manipulating the criteria of purity, and then by conducting an all-out war upon impurity, the ideological totalists create a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, a demand that one strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does not exist but is in fact alien to the human condition.
The individual thus comes to apply the same totalist polarization of good and evil to his judgments of his own character: he tends to imbue certain aspects of himself with excessive virtue, and condemn even more excessively other personal qualities - all according to their ideological standing. He must also look upon his impurities as originating from outside influences - that is, from the ever-threatening world beyond the closed, totalist ken. Therefore, one of his best way to relieve himself of some of his burden of guilt is to denounce, continuously and hostilely, these same outside influences. The more guilty he feels, the greater his hatred, and the more threatening they seem. In this manner, the universal psychological tendency toward "projection" is nourished and institutionalized, leading to mass hatreds, purges of heretics, and to political and religious holy wars. Moreover, once an individual person has experienced the totalist polarization of good and evil, he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality. For these is no emotional bondage greater than that of the man whose entire guilt potential - neurotic and existential - has become the property of ideological totalists. [www.culteducation.com]
The fundamental premise behind Peters Joseph motives is the "perfect" society and Jacque Frescos includes "heaven on earth". Typically, when confronted with the word "Utopia" however, Zeitgeist members tend to resort to the thought terminating cliche "not a utopia, just something better than we have now". An example of zeitgeist dividing the absolute good from the absolute evil includes a segment (audio was made exclusive only to members that downloaded the program from the official site; once the segment was exposed, the complete radio broadcast was removed) where Douglas Mallette represents "pure evil" as any organization that would target a food producing "facility", these people "need to die". This scenario was in anticipation of what Douglass Mallette thought was going to be a chance for the Venus project to create a test city in Africa with United nations funding in which Dougas Mallette would be in charge of said facility. Douglas Mallette went as far as speaking directly to the United Nations as a representative of the Venus Project. The Zeitgeist movement believes that everything in the world today is destructive, including families, laws, governments, currency, nations, cultures, states, languages, religions, god, the list goes on and on. Everything is destructive except for The Venus Project which is "perfection" and "heaven on earth". So they strive to painfully for the non existent "perfect" venus project and "heaven on earth" by spreading the name "zeitgeist" and the movies made by Peter Joseph to everybody they know (this is called "awareness").
ZEITGEIST "PERFECTION"-Peter Joseph:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFL7dz2iKyw&feature=channel_video_title]
ZEITGEIST "Heaven on Earth"-Jacque Fresco:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/user/anon11allofus#p/u/6/2m3fP3hNt2o]
ZEITGEIST "EVIL AND BAD PEOPLE who attack Venus project, Need to Die" (note, the video was not taken out of context, in fact, the whole audio was removed from the venus project spokesman's VTV's radio program list once i exposed this hidden section of a radio program.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Y9KO-l-T0]
ZEITGEIST PREPARE FOR VIOLENCE:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI2o0L8Z4xc]
The "Sacred Science"
The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself. While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also "unscientific." In this way, the philosopher kings of modern ideological totalism reinforce their authority by claiming to share in the rich and respected heritage of natural science.
The assumption here is not so much that man can be God, but rather that man's ideas can be God: that an absolute science of ideas (and implicitly, an absolute science of man) exists, or is at least very close to being attained; that this science can be combined with an equally absolute body of moral principles; and that the resulting doctrine is true for all men at all times. Although no ideology goes quite this far in overt statement, such assumptions are implicit in totalist practice.
At the level of the individual, the totalist sacred science can offer much comfort and security. Its appeal lies in its seeming unification of the mystical and the logical modes of experience (in psychoanalytic terms, of the primary and secondary thought processes). For within the framework of the sacred science, and sweeping, non-rational "insights." Since the distinction between the logical and the mystical is, to begin with, artificial and man-made, an opportunity for transcending it can create an extremely intense feeling of truth. But the posture of unquestioning faith - both rationally and non-rationally derived - is not easy to sustain, especially if one discovers that the world of experience is not nearly as absolute as the sacred science claims it to be.
Yet so strong a hold can the sacred science achieve over his mental processes that if one begins to feel himself attracted to ideas which either contradict or ignore it, he may become guilty and afraid. His quest for knowledge is consequently hampered, since in the name of science he is prevented from engaging in the receptive search for truth which characterizes the genuinely scientific approach. And his position is made more difficult by the absence, in a totalist environment, of any distinction between the sacred and the profane: there is no thought or action which cannot be related to the sacred science. To be sure, one can usually find areas of experience outside its immediate authority; but during periods of maximum totalist activity (like thought reform) any such areas are cut off, and there is virtually no escape from the milieu's ever-pressing edicts and demands. Whatever combination of continued adherence, inner resistance, or compromise co-existence the individual person adopts toward this blend of counterfeit science and back-door religion, it represents another continuous pressure toward personal closure, toward avoiding, rather than grappling with, the kinds of knowledge and experience necessary for genuine self-expression and for creative development. [www.culteducation.com]
Sacred Science is a fundament aspect to the Zeitgeist Movement. Altho when confronted with this information, members will usually say the material is "metaphorical", "conceptual", or "poetic" and not meant to be taken literal in context. First, in the zeitgeist orientation guide, the final chapter called "Functional Spirituality" teaches members "science and technology is divinity in action". Merola teaches people that "science is the tool for functional spirituality". The ultimate moral vision an ultimate science, science running the world and all of humanity thru a unified cybernated computer system and cities built by robots where people will no longer do manuel labor or any other form of job. The founder of the "movement" Peter Joseph himself believes man is god and mans ideas can be godly. In addendum he describes mans divine potential when the create the nuclear bomb. This movement does go so far in overt statement. The idea is that the human "oneness" spiritual beliefs of zeitgeist will eventually lead to this perfect scientific society. Zeitgeist lays the foundation for sacred science in the movie most members like people to watch, but not associate with the movement, the first film. In it, the founder of the movement Peter Joseph teaches that all religions are man made and that the biggest fraud is christianity, namely Jesus Christ. Merola teaches these same principles in radio interviews. So he teaches that god is artificial and man made. In the orientation he gives this exact statement then deferes back to his "divine science". The whole scientific approach has been twisted by the movement that members do not apply the test aspect to ANY notions of the venus project. The leadership has made it very well known that NO RESEARCH IS BEING CONDUCTED and NO TEST CITY IS BEING BUILT. So where is the scientific method being applied? It is not, it is the common belief of the group that sacred science will prevail. Counterfeit science and backdoor oneness religion.
SACRED ZEITGEIST SCIENCE "Science is Divinity in Action":
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRtX7rYh5ag]
PETER JOSEPH BELIEVES MAN IS GOD (first two minutes)
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYc7ZkloPIE&NR=1]
The Dispensing of Existence
Are not men presumtuous to appoint themselves the dispensers of human existence? Surely this is a flagrant expression of what the Greeks called hubris, of arrogant man making himself God. Yet one underlying assumption makes this arrogance mandatory: the conviction that there is just one path to true existence, just one valid mode of being, and that all others are perforce invalid and false. Totalists thus feel themselves compelled to destroy all possibilities of false existence as a means of furthering the great plan of true existence to which they are committed. [www.culteducation.com]
The Zeitgeist do believe man is god and they do believe there is just one path to true existence "divine science and technology". Zeitgeist wished to destroy all current modes of false existence to create a great plan of true existence, "the venus project".
And if no peak experience occurs, ideological totalism does even greater violence to the human potential: it evokes destructive emotions, produces intellectual and psychological constrictions, and deprives men of all that is most subtle and imaginative - under the false promise of eliminating those very imperfections and ambivalences which help to define the human condition. This combination of personal closure, self-destructiveness, and hostility toward outsiders leads to the dangerous group excesses so characteristic of ideological totalism in any form. It also mobilizes extremist tendencies in those outsiders under attack, thus creating a vicious circle of totalism.[www.culteducation.com]
-James
Destructive Cult Control
How can cults use communication to control people?
"One example is through "loading the language," a feature of thought reform, characterized by thought terminating cliches. Such cliches are easily memorized phrases and terms that essentially become communication shortcuts or "ultimate terms." This can have the effect of stopping critical thinking and independent analysis, essentially restricting and ultimately often constricting the mind." [www.culteducation.com]
Here is a prime example of the founder of zeitgeist movement Peter Joseph creating a "thought terminating cliche":
Hey Everyone.
Please note that my response actually has nothing to do with the writer in question as he is really an abstraction within a larger context. [We all understand what it means to be a victim of culture and circumstance.] My expression here is contextual to "The Circus" which Sam is "on tour" with. I haven't read his new response nor will I as it is irrelevant here. My overall point is to encourage others to simply recognize this pattern of thought we are seeing grow.
In time, NBC, ABC or the like will be toting this same "cult" rhetoric or something very close to it. So, rather than be surprised by "The Circus" when it comes to town, please expect it/understand it and look at it as a form of entertainment.
For those who do not know what "The Circus" is, it has to do with blatantly derogatory rhetoric which, rather than addressing a governing principle of a RBE, which TZM and TVP are seeking to create awareness of and institute, it attacks angles which are irrelevant and/or out of context - propping them up as though they mean something - always avoiding the core positions presented by The Movement.
Tell-tale signs of The Circus are labels/contexts like "cult" "conspiracy theorist" "communist" "new world order" "Marxist" "satanist" "theosophist" "anti-freedom" "anti-semetic" "racist" and other blanket distinctions which are both ambiguous and culturally objectionable on average.
What you don't hear from The Circus is anything that is specific to the tenets of the work itself. Such as recognition of the problems we consider or the viability of the solutions we offer in a specific way. The Circus will not discuss the Debt Collapse which is not stopping and why. The Circus will not present the gross negligence of having a Market system based on unneeded/yet demanded Cyclical Consumption. The Circus will not consider the impediment of an Infinite Growth Economy and the dangerously wasteful/unsustainable nature of such a practice. The Circus doesn't seem to care that 1% of the world owns 40% of the planet's wealth and that a global Plutocracy is at hand as one child dies every 5 secs of starvation. The Circus will not evaluate the monetary driven psychosocial pressures which generate generation after generation of addiction, mental health issues, violence, familial deprivation and countless other issues.
The Circus doesn't care about Public Health or anything that has to do with social improvement. -Peter Joseph Merola [www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Another loaded language phrase includes the classic Zeitgeist, "the movie is not the movement" thought terminating cliche. Basically, the members have been instructed to not consider any arguments about the namesake film of the movement, "Zeitgeist". Here is a member obviously drunk with indoctrination using this cliche in a youtube video:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKKE8tu8p8]
How is "coercive persuasion" really different from normal persuasion?
Essentially, coercive persuasion relies largely upon thought reform techniques and may also utilize unreasonable fear to compel people to change. Through such a process many can be changed without their knowledge and/or informed consent. This is done in a rigid way that frequently precludes any meaningful exchange of ideas, is fairly one-sided and seems to have little respect for differences. Margaret Singer clinical psychologist and author of the book "Cults in Our Midst" made distinctions between various types of persuasion such as education, advertising, propaganda, indoctrination and thought reform. [www.culteducation.com]
The fear tactics Zeitgeist uses is conspiracy. Basically, these people have been convinced that the economic end is near and the goal is to prepare for a violent introduction of a new peaceful unified global order Peter Merola calls "Perfection" and Jacque Fresco calls "Heaven on Earth". A example of fear tactic based propaganda as presented by Stacy McCain:
[theothermccain.com]
What "unreasonable fears" do many cult members have?
These are fears often not based upon objective reality, such as bizarre conspiracy theories, baseless projections of an impending catastrophe, crisis and/or physical danger. [www.culteducation.com]
How can cults control information?
Information is controlled in many cults by creating strict rules and/or guidelines regarding such things as books and outside reading, television, movies, radio, music and often even restricting associations with anyone who might express independent ideas, doubts or negative feelings about the group. The group and its leader(s) thus may become much like a filter, supposedly needed to help eliminate the "pollution", "poisons" and negativity of the outside world. [www.culteducation.com]
The Zeitgeist forums for discussion is a heavily filtered and censored forum. People will get immediately banned and IP blocked for raising criticisms considered hostile to the movement ( On Jan 14th 2011 blocked and banned: [forum.culteducation.com]). In some cases, complete threads will be erased, or in the case of the radio program used by zeitgeist, complete radio episodes will be removed. In addition, the common use of "thought terminating cliches" by the zeitgeist movement is the biggest form of information control.
Destructive Cult Recruitment
Are cults and other controversial groups deceptive when they recruit people?
Yes, they often are. They may employ deception in the recruitment process by using front organizational names and/or not clearly identifying themselves or their purpose. For example, a religious cult may not even initially advise potential recruits that it has a religious agenda. Groups with controversial leaders may withhold that information and also keep their more radical beliefs hidden or secret until they achieve more influence and compliance thorough their indoctrination process. [www.culteducation.com]
When recruiting members, Zeitgeist does not share its conspiracy aspects and hides its disdain for God and Christianity as a whole. If confronted about the film, the members resort to the thought terminating cliche "THE MOVIES ARE NOT THE MOVEMENT". According to Peter Joseph, the growth of the Zeitgeist Movement is in fact due to the first film, "Zeitgeist". These members who do in fact agree with the conspiratorial and religious beliefs of the founder then use the Venus Project as a tool for recruiting. If you research Zeitgeist "activism" on youtube, you will find them spreading the "positive" outer layers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK3IpvahQqc) while completely avoiding the Zeitgeist Movement inner core beliefs of religion, spirituality, conspiracy, etc.
ZEITGEIST MEMBER ENGAGED IN DECEPTIVE RECRUITING:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfGHYW-aErM&feature=player_embedded]
Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism
The Demand for Purity
In the thought reform milieu, as in all situations of ideological totalism, the experiential world is sharply divided into the pure and the impure, into the absolutely good and the absolutely evil. The good and the pure are of course those ideas, feelings, and actions which are consistent with the totalist ideology and policy; anything else is apt to be relegated to the bad and the impure. Nothing human is immune from the flood of stern moral judgments. All "taints" and "poisons" which contribute to the existing state of impurity must be searched out and eliminated.
Thought reform bears witness to its more malignant consequences: for by defining and manipulating the criteria of purity, and then by conducting an all-out war upon impurity, the ideological totalists create a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, a demand that one strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does not exist but is in fact alien to the human condition.
The individual thus comes to apply the same totalist polarization of good and evil to his judgments of his own character: he tends to imbue certain aspects of himself with excessive virtue, and condemn even more excessively other personal qualities - all according to their ideological standing. He must also look upon his impurities as originating from outside influences - that is, from the ever-threatening world beyond the closed, totalist ken. Therefore, one of his best way to relieve himself of some of his burden of guilt is to denounce, continuously and hostilely, these same outside influences. The more guilty he feels, the greater his hatred, and the more threatening they seem. In this manner, the universal psychological tendency toward "projection" is nourished and institutionalized, leading to mass hatreds, purges of heretics, and to political and religious holy wars. Moreover, once an individual person has experienced the totalist polarization of good and evil, he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality. For these is no emotional bondage greater than that of the man whose entire guilt potential - neurotic and existential - has become the property of ideological totalists. [www.culteducation.com]
The fundamental premise behind Peters Joseph motives is the "perfect" society and Jacque Frescos includes "heaven on earth". Typically, when confronted with the word "Utopia" however, Zeitgeist members tend to resort to the thought terminating cliche "not a utopia, just something better than we have now". An example of zeitgeist dividing the absolute good from the absolute evil includes a segment (audio was made exclusive only to members that downloaded the program from the official site; once the segment was exposed, the complete radio broadcast was removed) where Douglas Mallette represents "pure evil" as any organization that would target a food producing "facility", these people "need to die". This scenario was in anticipation of what Douglass Mallette thought was going to be a chance for the Venus project to create a test city in Africa with United nations funding in which Dougas Mallette would be in charge of said facility. Douglas Mallette went as far as speaking directly to the United Nations as a representative of the Venus Project. The Zeitgeist movement believes that everything in the world today is destructive, including families, laws, governments, currency, nations, cultures, states, languages, religions, god, the list goes on and on. Everything is destructive except for The Venus Project which is "perfection" and "heaven on earth". So they strive to painfully for the non existent "perfect" venus project and "heaven on earth" by spreading the name "zeitgeist" and the movies made by Peter Joseph to everybody they know (this is called "awareness").
ZEITGEIST "PERFECTION"-Peter Joseph:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFL7dz2iKyw&feature=channel_video_title]
ZEITGEIST "Heaven on Earth"-Jacque Fresco:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/user/anon11allofus#p/u/6/2m3fP3hNt2o]
ZEITGEIST "EVIL AND BAD PEOPLE who attack Venus project, Need to Die" (note, the video was not taken out of context, in fact, the whole audio was removed from the venus project spokesman's VTV's radio program list once i exposed this hidden section of a radio program.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Y9KO-l-T0]
ZEITGEIST PREPARE FOR VIOLENCE:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI2o0L8Z4xc]
The "Sacred Science"
The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic dogma, holding it out as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence. This sacredness is evident in the prohibition (whether or not explicit) against the questioning of basic assumptions, and in the reverence which is demanded for the originators of the Word, the present bearers of the Word, and the Word itself. While thus transcending ordinary concerns of logic, however, the milieu at the same time makes an exaggerated claim of airtight logic, of absolute "scientific" precision. Thus the ultimate moral vision becomes an ultimate science; and the man who dares to criticize it, or to harbor even unspoken alternative ideas, becomes not only immoral and irreverent, but also "unscientific." In this way, the philosopher kings of modern ideological totalism reinforce their authority by claiming to share in the rich and respected heritage of natural science.
The assumption here is not so much that man can be God, but rather that man's ideas can be God: that an absolute science of ideas (and implicitly, an absolute science of man) exists, or is at least very close to being attained; that this science can be combined with an equally absolute body of moral principles; and that the resulting doctrine is true for all men at all times. Although no ideology goes quite this far in overt statement, such assumptions are implicit in totalist practice.
At the level of the individual, the totalist sacred science can offer much comfort and security. Its appeal lies in its seeming unification of the mystical and the logical modes of experience (in psychoanalytic terms, of the primary and secondary thought processes). For within the framework of the sacred science, and sweeping, non-rational "insights." Since the distinction between the logical and the mystical is, to begin with, artificial and man-made, an opportunity for transcending it can create an extremely intense feeling of truth. But the posture of unquestioning faith - both rationally and non-rationally derived - is not easy to sustain, especially if one discovers that the world of experience is not nearly as absolute as the sacred science claims it to be.
Yet so strong a hold can the sacred science achieve over his mental processes that if one begins to feel himself attracted to ideas which either contradict or ignore it, he may become guilty and afraid. His quest for knowledge is consequently hampered, since in the name of science he is prevented from engaging in the receptive search for truth which characterizes the genuinely scientific approach. And his position is made more difficult by the absence, in a totalist environment, of any distinction between the sacred and the profane: there is no thought or action which cannot be related to the sacred science. To be sure, one can usually find areas of experience outside its immediate authority; but during periods of maximum totalist activity (like thought reform) any such areas are cut off, and there is virtually no escape from the milieu's ever-pressing edicts and demands. Whatever combination of continued adherence, inner resistance, or compromise co-existence the individual person adopts toward this blend of counterfeit science and back-door religion, it represents another continuous pressure toward personal closure, toward avoiding, rather than grappling with, the kinds of knowledge and experience necessary for genuine self-expression and for creative development. [www.culteducation.com]
Sacred Science is a fundament aspect to the Zeitgeist Movement. Altho when confronted with this information, members will usually say the material is "metaphorical", "conceptual", or "poetic" and not meant to be taken literal in context. First, in the zeitgeist orientation guide, the final chapter called "Functional Spirituality" teaches members "science and technology is divinity in action". Merola teaches people that "science is the tool for functional spirituality". The ultimate moral vision an ultimate science, science running the world and all of humanity thru a unified cybernated computer system and cities built by robots where people will no longer do manuel labor or any other form of job. The founder of the "movement" Peter Joseph himself believes man is god and mans ideas can be godly. In addendum he describes mans divine potential when the create the nuclear bomb. This movement does go so far in overt statement. The idea is that the human "oneness" spiritual beliefs of zeitgeist will eventually lead to this perfect scientific society. Zeitgeist lays the foundation for sacred science in the movie most members like people to watch, but not associate with the movement, the first film. In it, the founder of the movement Peter Joseph teaches that all religions are man made and that the biggest fraud is christianity, namely Jesus Christ. Merola teaches these same principles in radio interviews. So he teaches that god is artificial and man made. In the orientation he gives this exact statement then deferes back to his "divine science". The whole scientific approach has been twisted by the movement that members do not apply the test aspect to ANY notions of the venus project. The leadership has made it very well known that NO RESEARCH IS BEING CONDUCTED and NO TEST CITY IS BEING BUILT. So where is the scientific method being applied? It is not, it is the common belief of the group that sacred science will prevail. Counterfeit science and backdoor oneness religion.
SACRED ZEITGEIST SCIENCE "Science is Divinity in Action":
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRtX7rYh5ag]
PETER JOSEPH BELIEVES MAN IS GOD (first two minutes)
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYc7ZkloPIE&NR=1]
The Dispensing of Existence
Are not men presumtuous to appoint themselves the dispensers of human existence? Surely this is a flagrant expression of what the Greeks called hubris, of arrogant man making himself God. Yet one underlying assumption makes this arrogance mandatory: the conviction that there is just one path to true existence, just one valid mode of being, and that all others are perforce invalid and false. Totalists thus feel themselves compelled to destroy all possibilities of false existence as a means of furthering the great plan of true existence to which they are committed. [www.culteducation.com]
The Zeitgeist do believe man is god and they do believe there is just one path to true existence "divine science and technology". Zeitgeist wished to destroy all current modes of false existence to create a great plan of true existence, "the venus project".
And if no peak experience occurs, ideological totalism does even greater violence to the human potential: it evokes destructive emotions, produces intellectual and psychological constrictions, and deprives men of all that is most subtle and imaginative - under the false promise of eliminating those very imperfections and ambivalences which help to define the human condition. This combination of personal closure, self-destructiveness, and hostility toward outsiders leads to the dangerous group excesses so characteristic of ideological totalism in any form. It also mobilizes extremist tendencies in those outsiders under attack, thus creating a vicious circle of totalism.[www.culteducation.com]
-James
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
VTV
()
Date: March 07, 2011 02:24AM
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james kushAgain, Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:
1. A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.
Jacque Fresco birthday is a global holiday for Zeitgeist called ZDAY.
[zdayglobal.org]
Interesting. I know Jacque Fresco very well and was not aware of this. And I have yet to hear anyone say this until now and I hold several positions within the organization. I don't think this was done out of any sort of "worship".
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James Kush
They have tshirts,mugs, and other items with the likeness of Jacque Fresco:
[www.printfection.com]
Again, political activist movement. The "Campaign for Liberty" puts Ron Paul on stuff too. He is on those items in particular because of the funny quote from the last Zeitgeist movie.
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James
They have created small idols that represent the likeness of jacque fresco:
[thezeitgeistmovement.com]
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James
That is an artist's project. They are not IDOLS. WOW what a spin lol.
Here is a prime example of the founder of zeitgeist movement Peter Joseph creating a "thought terminating cliche":
Hey Everyone.
Please note that my response actually has nothing to do with the writer in question as he is really an abstraction within a larger context. [We all understand what it means to be a victim of culture and circumstance.] My expression here is contextual to "The Circus" which Sam is "on tour" with. I haven't read his new response nor will I as it is irrelevant here. My overall point is to encourage others to simply recognize this pattern of thought we are seeing grow.
In time, NBC, ABC or the like will be toting this same "cult" rhetoric or something very close to it. So, rather than be surprised by "The Circus" when it comes to town, please expect it/understand it and look at it as a form of entertainment.
For those who do not know what "The Circus" is, it has to do with blatantly derogatory rhetoric which, rather than addressing a governing principle of a RBE, which TZM and TVP are seeking to create awareness of and institute, it attacks angles which are irrelevant and/or out of context - propping them up as though they mean something - always avoiding the core positions presented by The Movement.
Tell-tale signs of The Circus are labels/contexts like "cult" "conspiracy theorist" "communist" "new world order" "Marxist" "satanist" "theosophist" "anti-freedom" "anti-semetic" "racist" and other blanket distinctions which are both ambiguous and culturally objectionable on average.
What you don't hear from The Circus is anything that is specific to the tenets of the work itself. Such as recognition of the problems we consider or the viability of the solutions we offer in a specific way. The Circus will not discuss the Debt Collapse which is not stopping and why. The Circus will not present the gross negligence of having a Market system based on unneeded/yet demanded Cyclical Consumption. The Circus will not consider the impediment of an Infinite Growth Economy and the dangerously wasteful/unsustainable nature of such a practice. The Circus doesn't seem to care that 1% of the world owns 40% of the planet's wealth and that a global Plutocracy is at hand as one child dies every 5 secs of starvation. The Circus will not evaluate the monetary driven psychosocial pressures which generate generation after generation of addiction, mental health issues, violence, familial deprivation and countless other issues.
The Circus doesn't care about Public Health or anything that has to do with social improvement. -Peter Joseph Merola [www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
So let me get this straight, he calls out someone from the media who was pretty obviously using the word "cult" to sell their article with the "Oooh ahhh" factor of the word and this is some sort of coercive thought reform? Give me a break.
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James
Another loaded language phrase includes the classic Zeitgeist, "the movie is not the movement" thought terminating cliche. Basically, the members have been instructed to not consider any arguments about the namesake film of the movement, "Zeitgeist". Here is a member obviously drunk with indoctrination using this cliche in a youtube video:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVKKE8tu8p8]
Sigh...
The reason the "movies are not the movement" is because the first movie has nothing to do with what we are doing now. And in the movies Peter puts some material in the movie that members of the movement do not always agree with. But again, that's not "coercive thought re-form".
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James
How is "coercive persuasion" really different from normal persuasion?
Essentially, coercive persuasion relies largely upon thought reform techniques and may also utilize unreasonable fear to compel people to change. Through such a process many can be changed without their knowledge and/or informed consent. This is done in a rigid way that frequently precludes any meaningful exchange of ideas, is fairly one-sided and seems to have little respect for differences. Margaret Singer clinical psychologist and author of the book "Cults in Our Midst" made distinctions between various types of persuasion such as education, advertising, propaganda, indoctrination and thought reform. [www.culteducation.com]
So Peter was trying to make people "unreasonably afraid" when he slammed on the media doing what it always does and trying to find something negative to report on to get ratings? Or by suggesting that his films have views not necessarily shared by the rest of the movement?
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James
The fear tactics Zeitgeist uses is conspiracy. Basically, these people have been convinced that the economic end is near and the goal is to prepare for a violent introduction of a new peaceful unified global order Peter Merola calls "Perfection" and Jacque Fresco calls "Heaven on Earth".
There are several organizations that fear an economic collapse. None of them are cults. And it's not an unreasonable fear. And you are really quoting Peter and Jacque out of context here:
[www.youtube.com]
And more examples of groups that feel we are in a crisis ecologically and economically:
[www.youtube.com]
And as for your accusation that nobody in the Zeitgeist Movement is interested in actually researching things now, several members of the movement are involved with this project that is testing and developing sustainable technologies and giving them away FREE open source.
[openfarmtech.org]
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James
A example of fear tactic based propaganda as presented by Stacy McCain:
[theothermccain.com]
Another article SOLELY concentrated on the first film that was made by Peter Joseph back when he was a music major in college as part of a personal project. I have already debunked the nonsense that the movie could in any reasonable way be linked to Jared Loughner. It takes a bit more then some guy who had not even spoken to him for two years to suggest that. Not to mention Loughner had many youtube videos that were released not long before his shooting that showed views that are very much not in line with our suggested economic model.
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James
What "unreasonable fears" do many cult members have?
These are fears often not based upon objective reality, such as bizarre conspiracy theories, baseless projections of an impending catastrophe, crisis and/or physical danger. [www.culteducation.com]
Now your repeating yourself. But I will debunk this twice. There is nothing baseless about the idea that we cannot continue to produce infinitely on a planet that has finite resources. There is nothing baseless about the idea that we cannot continue to pollute the earth and not expect it to become uninhabitable. Please provide me logic on why either of the above points are "baseless" or "unreasonable". Secondly, as I already pointed out beliefs in conspiracy theories while individual members may have them they are not required to be involved in this activist movement. Nor is it part of the material. Jacque Fresco openly stated he does not support the first film in my interview with him you can find on my website.
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James
How can cults control information?
Information is controlled in many cults by creating strict rules and/or guidelines regarding such things as books and outside reading, television, movies, radio, music and often even restricting associations with anyone who might express independent ideas, doubts or negative feelings about the group. The group and its leader(s) thus may become much like a filter, supposedly needed to help eliminate the "pollution", "poisons" and negativity of the outside world. [www.culteducation.com]
The Zeitgeist forums for discussion is a heavily filtered and censored forum. People will get immediately banned and IP blocked for raising criticisms considered hostile to the movement ( On Jan 14th 2011 blocked and banned: [forum.culteducation.com]). In some cases, complete threads will be erased, or in the case of the radio program used by zeitgeist, complete radio episodes will be removed. In addition, the common use of "thought terminating cliches" by the zeitgeist movement is the biggest form of information control.
We have already debunked this nonsense. The forum is only used by a small amount of the organization. Zeitgeist members are not monitored for all of their communication in the way a cult would do this. You are stretching WAY far here.
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James
Destructive Cult Recruitment
When recruiting members, Zeitgeist does not share its conspiracy aspects and hides its disdain for God and Christianity as a whole. If confronted about the film, the members resort to the thought terminating cliche "THE MOVIES ARE NOT THE MOVEMENT". According to Peter Joseph, the growth of the Zeitgeist Movement is in fact due to the first film, "Zeitgeist". These members who do in fact agree with the conspiratorial and religious beliefs of the founder then use the Venus Project as a tool for recruiting. If you research Zeitgeist "activism" on youtube, you will find them spreading the "positive" outer layers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK3IpvahQqc) while completely avoiding the Zeitgeist Movement inner core beliefs of religion, spirituality, conspiracy, etc.
It is interesting that you basically in a way just proved my point. We don't hide anything from anyone. But the reason that information is not handed out to people is because it is not what the movement is about. The movement is about the Resource Based Economy model. And while there are many atheists and some conspiracy theorists in the movement as I pointed out, neither of these things are required for supporting the resource based economy model. I have friends who are Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc who still understand that using science to build a more efficient and sustainable world will work. And I know of several people personally within the movement who do not believe in any of the conspiracy theory material. This is again why I see a lot of what is going on here as spin. You are making general statements about the beliefs of some people within this organization. I know of MANY members of "Campaign for Liberty" who are 911 truthers. Is "Campaign for Liberty" a cult? No it's not. And they don't actively promote 911 conspiracy theories. But individual members can hold whatever beliefs they want. Ironically this is actually proof that there is no coercive thought control. Nobody gets "in trouble" in the movement for not being a conspiracy theorist. Or an atheist.
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James
ZEITGEIST MEMBER ENGAGED IN DECEPTIVE RECRUITING:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfGHYW-aErM&feature=player_embedded]
From the description of the person's own video:
"This is my 2nd Venus Project promotional video. I tried to make it look like one of those cheesy lawyer commercials.
Enjoy"
In other words, he was being humorous. Not deceptive. (Humor I might add, is listed as something that is lost in "cults".)
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James
The fundamental premise behind Peters Joseph motives is the "perfect" society and Jacque Frescos includes "heaven on earth".
Two things:
1. Solid repetition of a given piece of information being used as misleading propaganda is very common in actual "thought reform" and an attempt to look like there is "plenty" of information to support one's claim when in reality they are just repeating the same thing they said earlier. ("We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud...")
2. You will notice he is not providing any context for either of the quotes he is attempting to spin here. As he is quote mining.
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James
Typically, when confronted with the word "Utopia" however, Zeitgeist members tend to resort to the thought terminating cliche "not a utopia, just something better than we have now". An example of zeitgeist dividing the absolute good from the absolute evil includes a segment (audio was made exclusive only to members that downloaded the program from the official site; once the segment was exposed, the complete radio broadcast was removed) where Douglas Mallette represents "pure evil" as any organization that would target a food producing "facility", these people "need to die". This scenario was in anticipation of what Douglass Mallette thought was going to be a chance for the Venus project to create a test city in Africa with United nations funding in which Dougas Mallette would be in charge of said facility. Douglas Mallette went as far as speaking directly to the United Nations as a representative of the Venus Project.
1. Douglass Mallette is just an individual supporter. He cannot "speak for the Venus Project". But he is a supporter of it.
2. The quote your talking about was never on the Zeitgeist Movement's website, or the Venus Project's website. It was on my website, as it took place on my radio show. I would note to the readers that this again is deceptive on his part, as he tried to claim this is a view held by the entire movement.
His statement that it was on the "official site" is a blatant lie. And it was not made "only available to members" it was on my radio show which plenty of people who are not members listen to.
3. Your information about the UN is inaccurate. Douglass wants to develop an automated hydroponic faming system. The UN offers funding for such things. He was never asking for money for a test city for the Venus Project. This is blatantly false. And further proves a lack of credibility.
4. Douglass has since apologized for his wording. But it was a comment made in conversation and the scenario that was actually painted was that in a possible future where we, a peaceful group trying to help people in the world build a food production facility and some nefarious group destroyed that facility likely killing hundreds of people in the process and leaving hundreds of thousands of others without food that action would have to be taken against them. I have seen this spun as "he thinks people should be killed for attacking a building" while very deceptively leaving all of the information about why that building would be attacked, and who could be hurt in the process out of the description. This is a classic example of someone public making a strong statement and then getting sound bited and taken out of context.
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James
The Zeitgeist movement believes that everything in the world today is destructive, including families, laws, governments, currency, nations, cultures, states, languages, religions, god, the list goes on and on. Everything is destructive except for The Venus Project which is "perfection" and "heaven on earth". So they strive to painfully for the non existent "perfect" venus project and "heaven on earth" by spreading the name "zeitgeist" and the movies made by Peter Joseph to everybody they know (this is called "awareness").
Ok, now we are getting into the realm of outright lying. In the Zeitgeist Orientation guide it actually talks about the benefits to families living in a Resource Based Economy and how much stronger the bonds will be when parents can actually spend a lot more time with their children in the economic model we suggest.
ZEITGEIST "PERFECTION"-Peter Joseph:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFL7dz2iKyw&feature=channel_video_title]
And in the video he says "It's not perfect at all" and uses the word "hopefully". Are you just hoping people are not going to actually watch the video? He says it's the best science can offer us through using the scientific method. This is further proof of deceptive debate on your part.
ZEITGEIST "Heaven on Earth"-Jacque Fresco:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/user/anon11allofus#p/u/6/2m3fP3hNt2o]
And in this video, the trolls who made it (The anon youtube accounts are all owned by people who are angry about having been banned from the website pretending to be part of the "Anonymous" internet activist group. They were hoping they could get that group to attack us in the same way they do actual cults like scientology. Just as they are hoping experts here will label us a cult now.) Suggesting that Jacque Fresco is a liar because he said it would take 10 years to change the surface of the earth. They are saying this is a false prediction, but what Jacque is saying is that if we started to implement the designs for a resource based economy it would take 10 years to change the earth to the system he proposes. This again is a very deceptive attempt. We have never tried to implement the Resource Based Economy in the first place, so obviously saying that Jacque Fresco said it back in the seventies as some sort of proof that he is lying about it is silly. It takes a few years to build an aircraft carrier. But the clock doesn't start until someone actually starts the building. This is so silly.
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James
ZEITGEIST "EVIL AND BAD PEOPLE who attack Venus project, Need to Die" (note, the video was not taken out of context, in fact, the whole audio was removed from the venus project spokesman's VTV's radio program list once i exposed this hidden section of a radio program.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Y9KO-l-T0]
Well how interesting. First we have more repetition. Then we have you going from saying it was on the official TZM site to now pointing out it was on my radio program. What an interesting contradiction.
ZEITGEIST PREPARE FOR VIOLENCE:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI2o0L8Z4xc]
I will let Doug speak for himself in that video that your attempting to spin. But Doug was very clear. We recognize that people may try to be violent even towards a peaceful group of people trying to implement this system, particularly if it was done during an economic/ecological collapse. You framed this as if Doug was trying to be a drill sergeant preparing people for war. Again extremely deceptive tactics. I notice you didn't post the entire video of Doug addressing that issue.
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James
Sacred Science is a fundament aspect to the Zeitgeist Movement. Altho when confronted with this information, members will usually say the material is "metaphorical", "conceptual", or "poetic" and not meant to be taken literal in context. First, in the zeitgeist orientation guide, the final chapter called "Functional Spirituality" teaches members "science and technology is divinity in action". Merola teaches people that "science is the tool for functional spirituality". The ultimate moral vision an ultimate science, science running the world and all of humanity thru a unified cybernated computer system and cities built by robots where people will no longer do manuel labor or any other form of job. The founder of the "movement" Peter Joseph himself believes man is god and mans ideas can be godly. In addendum he describes mans divine potential when the create the nuclear bomb. This movement does go so far in overt statement. The idea is that the human "oneness" spiritual beliefs of zeitgeist will eventually lead to this perfect scientific society. Zeitgeist lays the foundation for sacred science in the movie most members like people to watch, but not associate with the movement, the first film.
You are making a huge stretch here. First of all, Jacque Fresco points out that his own designs may not work. And they are just what he proposes at this time. That is the reason a "test city" is suggested if this concept were ever implemented. So there is nothing "sacred" about it. If through the scientific method we find that different concepts we are considering don't work, then those concepts are tossed out. It's really that simple. And it doesn't make us a cult to suggest that people use rational critical and analytical thinking to try and solve mankind's problems rather then superstition or politics which are both proving to be failures. Your context on Peter Joseph believing that "man is god" is an atheist metaphor. Nothing more. Are all atheists cultists?
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James
In it, the founder of the movement Peter Joseph teaches that all religions are man made and that the biggest fraud is christianity, namely Jesus Christ. Merola teaches these same principles in radio interviews. So he teaches that god is artificial and man made.
Again. Because he is an atheist.
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James
In the orientation he gives this exact statement then deferes back to his "divine science".
Please show me a quote where HE says "divine science"? I suspect spin here.
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James
The whole scientific approach has been twisted by the movement that members do not apply the test aspect to ANY notions of the venus project. The leadership has made it very well known that NO RESEARCH IS BEING CONDUCTED and NO TEST CITY IS BEING BUILT. So where is the scientific method being applied? It is not, it is the common belief of the group that sacred science will prevail. Counterfeit science and backdoor oneness religion.
Again, we move into absolute falsehood. It is well known that the first step of implementing such a system is a test city. It is not what we are working on right now. Right now we are emphasizing helping people understand the concept, make people aware of the dangers of infinite production/pollution on a finite planet, and suggesting the solutions we have.
SACRED ZEITGEIST SCIENCE "Science is Divinity in Action":
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRtX7rYh5ag]
The video speaks for itself. Your again really trying to stretch.
PETER JOSEPH BELIEVES MAN IS GOD (first two minutes)
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYc7ZkloPIE&NR=1]
Again, because he is an atheist.
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James
The Zeitgeist do believe man is god and they do believe there is just one path to true existence "divine science and technology". Zeitgeist wished to destroy all current modes of false existence to create a great plan of true existence, "the venus project".
Again, this is a silly bit of spin here. I would also point out that it is made very clear that people can believe whatever they want in an RBE society. We don't advocate force or coercion for any type of social change. I notice you keep leaving that part out. There are millions of atheists who are not members of any cult. And it seems to me like your trying to make the two words synonymous.
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James
3. Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.
The goal is for economic and fame for the founders.
The Spokesmen, VTV, sells stuff for financial gain on his site:
[www.printfection.com]
The Spokesmen VTV, seeks financial donations:
[v-radio.org]
The Venus project sells $295 packages
[www.thevenusproject.com]
Fresco sells his book " the best that money cant buy" to members:
[www.youtube.com]
[www.thevenusproject.com]
The Zeitgeist Movie sells movies and Tshirts:
[zeitgeistmovie.com]
Rick Ross sells DVDs, books, etc. Along with many other people all over the world. I take donations and do sell some items but that's not "abuse" and people listen to my radio program free of charge regardless of donations. People are free to give, or not to give. This is not "abuse". There is no membership dues for the Zeitgeist Movement. Peter gives all of his movies away for free on the internet and only sells DVD for a fraction of what they are worth. I can tell you that Jacque and Roxanne have refused certain fundraising ideas because they did not feel it would be right for them to ask for money beyond what they already do. There is nothing wrong with an author charging for his book. Or a filmmaker charging for videos he has made. There is no coercive element. Nobody is excluded for any lack of financial contribution. You are again twisting the concept of cult abuse here. Financial abuse in a cult context is like organizations who demand you give them all your money when you join. Simply asking for donations does not make an organization a cult, or every single church, charity, etc. on this planet would be a cult. It is not abuse unless it is coercive.
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James
Zeitgeist opposes all other RBE economy objectives, because it is "dangerous" to donate to anybody else, but the venus project:
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Again, your deceptively twisting words. Independent projects (like my radio program for example) can get permission to ask for donations for given projects. What we don't want is to see people setting up scams that claim to be collecting money for the Venus Project or the Zeitgeist Movement that are not doing so. This is not uncommon in political activist situations sadly. It happened to Ron Paul several times.
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James
Peter Joseph thinks by using his followers to push his film he can get nominated for a academy award (atho they claim it is not a "ego" issue, its simply for "awareness"):
[zeitgeistmovements.files.wordpress.com]
It's interesting that you link your own blog as proof of your spin claim here.
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James
PS, if you need more examples let me know.
So, to wrap this up.
I have exposed several deceptive tactics used in this report. Repetition, spin, quote mining, taking things out of context, etc. The poster has a history of engaging in just that quite a bit. As you can see from the various exposures here he has a tendency to provide links for comments taken out of context, and will slip some outright falsehoods next to misquotes to try and lend credibility to his argument. This is not meant as a personal attack but to make the readers aware that this sort of thing is very common for him. It would be hard for someone who had not dealt with this from him to get the context of it and he is banking on that.
We are again dealing with a personality who has a personal grudge against the Zeitgeist Movement. And is hoping that you will label us a cult.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 07, 2011 03:16AM
Matters of money.
I want to issue a clarification. I made a mistake in writing that Triodos Bank had given assistance to Venus Project.
It is more accurate to state that Venus Project and Triodos are two amoung sixty plus projects on a list that is available on the wedreambusiness website. This business is run
by a group of students who are interested in sustainability and selected these sixty plus projects because they appreciated the various approches.
[wedreambusiness.org]
Venus Project just happens to be another project they like, because it attempts to propose a solution to sustainability problems.
To re-iterate, and clarify, Venus Project is one project the wedreambusiness website happens to like--among very many others, including Triodos Bank.
And Starbucks. And Whole Foods and Patagonia.
So yes, that list of projects are not recipients of loans from Triodos bank.
Still..... there is a lengthy and detailed essay in which Roxanne Meadow is quoted and also Jorge Fresco. That can be read on the site.
If you go to the 'likes' section on the webpage you will Venus Project listed in the lefthand sidebar with an picture. Click on the picture and you get this essay.
[http://wedreambusiness.org/index.php?id=250&orderby=likes
Quote:
Roxanne Meadows believes that there is no human nature, there is human behaviour, and that has always been changed throughout the history. We are not born with bigotry, greed, corruption and hatred. We pick that up within the society. So, what are the reasons which cause these behavioural flaws we have and drag us to ethically wrong behaviours?
and this bibiliography
Quote:
Bibliography:
Fresco, J. 2009. The Future and Beyond, [www.thevenusproject.com]
Notaro, A. 2005. Imagining the Cybernetic City: The Venus Project, Nebula, 2.4, Dec/Jan 2005
The Venus Project, [www.thevenusproject.com]
Joseph, P. 2008. Zeitgeist Addendum ? the movie
[wedreambusiness.org]
I want to issue a clarification. I made a mistake in writing that Triodos Bank had given assistance to Venus Project.
It is more accurate to state that Venus Project and Triodos are two amoung sixty plus projects on a list that is available on the wedreambusiness website. This business is run
by a group of students who are interested in sustainability and selected these sixty plus projects because they appreciated the various approches.
[wedreambusiness.org]
Venus Project just happens to be another project they like, because it attempts to propose a solution to sustainability problems.
To re-iterate, and clarify, Venus Project is one project the wedreambusiness website happens to like--among very many others, including Triodos Bank.
And Starbucks. And Whole Foods and Patagonia.
So yes, that list of projects are not recipients of loans from Triodos bank.
Still..... there is a lengthy and detailed essay in which Roxanne Meadow is quoted and also Jorge Fresco. That can be read on the site.
If you go to the 'likes' section on the webpage you will Venus Project listed in the lefthand sidebar with an picture. Click on the picture and you get this essay.
[http://wedreambusiness.org/index.php?id=250&orderby=likes
Quote:
Roxanne Meadows believes that there is no human nature, there is human behaviour, and that has always been changed throughout the history. We are not born with bigotry, greed, corruption and hatred. We pick that up within the society. So, what are the reasons which cause these behavioural flaws we have and drag us to ethically wrong behaviours?
and this bibiliography
Quote:
Bibliography:
Fresco, J. 2009. The Future and Beyond, [www.thevenusproject.com]
Notaro, A. 2005. Imagining the Cybernetic City: The Venus Project, Nebula, 2.4, Dec/Jan 2005
The Venus Project, [www.thevenusproject.com]
Joseph, P. 2008. Zeitgeist Addendum ? the movie
[wedreambusiness.org]
Quote
Quote:
The Venus Project
beyond politics, poverty & war
industry: Visions of Future
founded: 1975
location: Venus, Florida - USA
website: www.thevenusproject.com/
61 likes
1. Introduction
There have been a lot of scenarios, utopias, proposals or speculations about the future since humans started to imagine. Today, a lot of movies and books are being published which try to describe the picture of the future. Notaro (2005) explains the situation as ?Ideal cities, or utopias have been imagined in minute detail by philosophers, poets, architects, social reformers, religious devotees, and artists for more than two thousand years. The attempt to invent the perfect city, cradle of the ideal society, is an abiding and ever-evolving vision embracing a wide variety of fascinating and often controversial movements and figures?. However, all of those utopias or scenarios mostly do not seem possible and real to us.
The Venus Project by Jacque Fresco demonstrates a possible future with viable alternatives. This project does not remain as a futuristic design of architecture or technology, beside presents a ?bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture?. It addresses every aspect of life with a broad view by putting humanity to the centre of the world. The project handles the social, economical, ethical etc. problems exist in the world and proposes realistic and sustainable solutions to these matters.
One Cree Indian proverb says that ?Only when the last tree has been cut down; Only when the last river has been poisoned; Only when the last fish has been caught; Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten?. This quote might be the best description and starting point for what is questioned by The Venus Project.
2. The Main Facts About the Activities of the Project
The Venus Project is a futuristic and systemic approach which proposes us a much better life in the future than we have at the moment. It is a veritable blue-print for the genesis of a new world civilization, one that is based on human concern and environmental reclamation. The plans for The Venus Project offer society a broader spectrum of choices based on the scientific possibilities directed toward a new era of peace and sustainability for all. Through the implementation of a resource-based economy, and a multitude of innovative and environmentally friendly technologies directly applied to the social system, The Venus Project proposes to dramatically reduce crime, poverty, hunger, homelessness, and many other pressing problems that are common throughout the world today.
It is stated in the website of the project as: ?there are many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the Earth's ecosystems. The Venus Project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium?.
In the project it is declared that the problems we are faced with today cannot be solved politically or financially because they are highly technical in nature. These social and economical problems do not have solutions because nobody is making a trial to alter basic value systems. So The Venus Project raises the discussion: There may not even be enough money available to pay for the required changes, but there are more than enough resources. Therefore, the project supports and suggests the and suggests the transformation from ?Obsolete Monetary System? of today to ?Resource Based Economy?. With this transformation, people will not need money and the necessities of life will be in free access of everyone without bureaucracy or any other agency. All humanity will work with resources that nature gives us and produce what we need.
Jacque Fresco, the founder of the project, points out in his essay that ?the real wealth of any nation lies in its developed and potential resources and the people who are working toward the elimination of scarcity and the development of a more humane way of life. A resource-based economy would use technology to overcome scarce resources by utilizing renewable sources of energy; computerizing and automating manufacturing, inventory and distribution; designing safe, energy-efficient cities; providing universal health care and relevant education; and most of all, by generating a new incentive system based on human and environmental concern?. Thus, the project offers a new way of life by utilizing natural resources of the world in order to increase well being and wealth of humanity. Contrarily to current monetary system it puts the quality of life in the first place rather than profit maximization.
3. The Ethical Challenges This Project is Addressing
As it is already mentioned, The Venus Project focuses on a lot of social and economical problems, moreover the ethical challenges that those problems bring along. Basically, human behaviour is subjected to the general questioning of today?s problems. According to Jacque Fresco; ?Our customs, behaviours, and values are byproducts of our culture. No one is born with greed, prejudice, bigotry, patriotism and hatred; these are all learned behaviour patterns. If the environment is unaltered, similar behaviour will reoccur?. He and his colleague Roxanne Meadows believes that there is no human nature, there is human behaviour, and that has always been changed throughout the history. We are not born with bigotry, greed, corruption and hatred. We pick that up within the society. So, what are the reasons which cause these behavioural flaws we have and drag us to ethically wrong behaviours?
In today's world we are facing with many common threats that transcend national boundaries. These include overpopulation, energy shortages, pollution, uncontrollable diseases, human rights abuse, economical fraudulence, terrorism, political corruption, religious exploitation and so forth. These indications demonstrate that the system we are living in is collapsing. The Venus Project addresses the reason of these problems to the ?obsolete monetary system?. At this point, Jacque Fresco claims that ?However, faced even with threats of this magnitude, which are common to all nations, the direction of human action will not be altered so long as powerful nations are able to maintain control of the limited resources available?.
Understanding this we then see that money fundamentally exists as a barrier to reach these resources and virtually everything has a financial cost. This situation drags the world in crises and avoids majority of population to reach their main, natural needs because of not having the enough money as a medium to obtain these resources.
The Venus Project declares that the current monetary system is not capable of providing a high standard of living for everyone, nor can it ensure the protection of the environment because the major motive is profit rather than the welfare of humanity. Therefore, while strategies, such as downsizing, toxic dumping etc, increase the profit margin they actually still stay as ethically wrong actions.
For example, automation causes replacement of people by machines and then the social problems arise from unemployment of big amount of people. This seems like the consequence of the technological development and technology brings out unethical behaviours. However, the monetary system is the main actor who let fewer people to purchase goods and services, where technology is making our lives easier in fact. Fresco explains this situation as: ?Our present, outmoded political and economic systems are unable to apply the real benefits of today's innovative technology to achieve the greatest good for all people, and to overcome the inequities imposed upon so many, therefore competition and scarcity have caused an atmosphere of jealousy and mistrust to develop between individuals and nations. Our technology is racing forward yet our social designs have remained relatively static. In other words cultural change has not kept pace with technological change. We now have the means to produce goods and services in abundance for everyone?.
Like the monetary system, there are other social systems are addressed by The Venus Project in terms of ethical challenges. These are political and religious institutions which are also related to monetary system. The project was a main basis of a documentary movie, Zeitgeist Addendum (2008) and the role of these established institutions and their impacts were also subjected in the movie as the following part: ?The social values of our society, which has manifested in perpetual warfare, corruption, oppressive laws, social stratification, irrelevant superstitions, environmental destruction, and a despotic socially indifferent profit oriented ruling class is fundamentally the result of a collective ignorance of two of the most basic insights humans can have about reality: The emergent and symbiotic aspects of natural law. The emergent nature of reality is that all systems; whether it is knowledge, society, technology, philosophy, or any other creation will, when uninhibited, undergo fluid perpetual change... ...This means we must be open to new information at all times, even if it threatens our current belief system, and hence, identities. Sadly society today has failed to recognize this, and the established institutions continue to paralyze growth by preserving outdated social structures... ...The monetary system perpetuates an intellectual materialism not only by its self-preserving structures, but also through the countless number of people who have been conditioned into blindly and thoughtlessly upholding these structures, therefore becoming self-appointed guardians of the status quo?
An example which Jacque Fresco has given about the business and industry in the Zeitgeist Addendum movie can help to sum up the ethical challenges which is addressed by The Venus Project; ?if you came into my store and I said ?this lamp that I have got is pretty good, but the lamp next door is much better?, I would not be in business very long. It would not work. If I were ethical, it would not work. So when you say industry cares for people, that is not true. They cannot afford to be ethical. So your system is not designed to serve the well-being of people. If you still do not understand that there would be no outsourcing of jobs if they cared about people. Industry does not care. They only hire people because it has not been automated yet. So do not talk about decency and ethics, we cannot afford it and remain in business?.
4. Why This Project Is Really Ethical and Why to Trust It
As the proposals and the ethical dimensions of the project have been discussed, now the reasons what make this project ethical should be given. In my opinion, the radical and thorough change which is suggested by the project might seem like unrealistic at the first sight, however conceptually, the principals presented leads me to positive thinking and dreaming about a nice future. On the other hand, present monetary system has been tried for a long time and day by day, humans are suffering from the consequences of it. Fulfilling the demands of current economy does not seem like proposing solutions to end; war, poverty, hunger, deprivation, crime, ignorance, stress, fear, and inequity. Unlikely, it leads to increasing rates of these problems constantly.
Notaro (2005) also claims that; ?greed was the main obstacle towards the creation of a total environment in which man would live in peace with his fellow man and in harmony with nature. Most importantly, all the facilities are available to everyone without cost in a resource based economy where human greed becomes a thing of the past?. About the issue, Fresco declares, one that ?utilizes existing resources rather than money and provides an equitable method of distribution in the most humane and efficient manner for the entire population ... all the world?s resources are held as common heritage of all the Earth?s people. This is the unifying imperative?. These arguments represent the equality approach of the project.
Moreover, in a humanitarian aspect, it is indicated on the website of the project that in this new social arrangement of a resource-based economy, motivation and incentive will be encouraged through recognition of and concern for the needs of the individual. This means providing the necessary environment, educational facilities, nutrition, health care, compassion, love, and security that all people need.
Another, supportive instrument to ethical dimension of the project is its 18 goals which are presented in his essay by Fresco. Some of them which are most related to ethical issue are listed below;
„« Conserving all the world's resources as the common heritage of all of the Earth?s people.
„« Transcending all of the artificial boundaries that separate people.
„« Evolving from a monetary-based economy to a resource-based world economy.
„« Reclaiming and restoring the natural environment to the best of our ability.
„« Redesigning our cities, transportation systems, and agricultural and industrial plants so that they are energy efficient, clean, and conveniently serve the needs of all people.
„« Using clean, renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, geothermal, and tidal power, etc.
„« Outgrowing nationalism, bigotry and prejudice through education.
„« Eliminating any type of elitism, technical or otherwise.
„« Providing not only the necessities of life but also offering challenges that stimulate the mind, emphasizing individuality rather than uniformity.
Because of its egalitarian, humanitarian, naturist and environment ? friendly aspect, I believe that Venus Project deserves to be believed and trusted in terms of ethical concept.
Of course, for most of the people, not surprisingly, it might not easy to accept a theory like this. However, if we consider the unethical cases in the world, most of them will lead us to monetary and profit related issues. There are a lot of cases in the history, where unethical acts came true because of the conflict with economical interests. Fresco winds up the discussion with a nice quote in Zeitgeist Addendum (2008): ?The system I advocate, a resource based global economy is not perfect, it is just a lot better than what we have. We can never achieve perfection?.
5. The Possible Challenges Facing The Project In The Future and How This Project May Improve
First of all, the most important challenge that project might face in the future is the diversity of human. As a totally different aspect to the present system, it will be hard to establish a common collective between people on the world. There might be a lot of people who oppose this project with the argument of an imposition of a system. Imposition of a system might be perceived as limiting the liberty and therefore can cause an unethical impression.
Another challenge might be the people who believe that there is already too much technology in the world today, and that technology is the major cause of our environmental pollution. This fact is emphasized by Fresco as well, but he objects to this view and argues that the abuse and misuse of technology should be the major concern. In very simple terms, a hammer can be used to construct a building, or to kill another person. It is not the hammer that is the issue, but how it is used. Hence, Fresco means the being ethical is not the matter of technology but human beings.
And the last issue which has already been talked about and might challenge the project in the future is the question; if all people have the access to basic needs, what will be their motivation then? Again Fresco answers in this objection in his essay; ?this is tantamount to saying that children reared in affluent environments, in which their parents provide all the necessary food, clothing, shelter, nutrition, and extensive education, will demonstrate a lack of incentive or initiative. There is no evidence to support this fallacious assumption. There is overwhelming evidence to support the facts that malnutrition, lack of employment, low wages, poor health, lack of direction, lack of education, homelessness, little or no reinforcement for one's efforts, poor role models, poverty, and a bleak prospect for the future do create monumental individual and social problems, and significantly reduce an individual?s drive to achieve. The aim of a resource based economy is to encourage and develop a new incentive system, one no longer directed toward the shallow and self-centred goals of wealth, property, and power. These new incentives would encourage people to pursue different goals, such as self-fulfilment and creativity, the elimination of scarcity, the protection of the environment, and the alleviation of suffering in their fellow human beings?.
On the other hand, it is not easy to anticipate improvements to this project because it is still pending to be implemented one day in the future. Thus, the preparation period can be improved by increasing the communication and awareness around the world to gain supporters.
6. Conclusion
The Venus Project, as I have tried to present, is an alternative approach to current outmode mechanism of the world. It aims a social change, which leads humanity to a sustainable global civilization. Fresco, who leans on the blessings of the technology for the future, manifests a positive philosophy with his promising ideas and reveals a nice scene from our future with this part of his essay; ?As we enhance the lives of others, protect our environment, and work toward abundance, all our lives can become richer and more secure. If these values were put into practice it would enable all of us to achieve a much higher standard of living within a relatively short period of time--one that would be continuously improved. At a time when commercial institutions no longer exist, the necessity for prisons, lawyers, advertisements, banks and the stock exchange will serve no useful purpose. In the society of the future, in which the monetary system of scarcity has been surpassed by a resource based economy and most physical and creative needs are met, private ownership as we know it would cease to be a necessity to protect one?s access to goods and services. The concept of ownership would be of no advantage whatsoever in a society of abundance. Although this is difficult for many to imagine, even the wealthiest person today would be immensely better off in the highly productive resource-based society. Today in developed countries the middle class live far better than kings and the wealthy of times past. In a resource based economy everyone would live richer lives than the powerful and wealthy of today, not only materially but spiritually as well?.
The Venus Project helps us to understand that the only limitations are those we impose upon ourselves. It is not a utopian, unrealistic view instead it presents attainable goals requiring only the intelligent application of what we already know.
As a conclusion, I believe that the vision of the Venus Project and the aspect of the Jacque Fresco are worth to be praised. Unlikely to general attitude towards systems, Venus Project does not remain as a criticizer, proposes alternatives to current obsolete system.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bibliography:
Fresco, J. 2009. The Future and Beyond, [www.thevenusproject.com]
Notaro, A. 2005. Imagining the Cybernetic City: The Venus Project, Nebula, 2.4, Dec/Jan 2005
The Venus Project, [www.thevenusproject.com]
Joseph, P. 2008. Zeitgeist Addendum ? the movie
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Submitted by:
Aras Yildiz - Universitat Pompeu Fabra
design: jenaro.biz
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 07, 2011 03:29AM
Matters of money.--Two
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Quote
Questions For Jaque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the AnswersQuote
Post #42557
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
What is their current finanical status, eg. how much money in the bank, any loans/etc.
Are there any budget plans for building a new home or community when they move or is that rather dependant on the sale of their existing home ?
At the moment, money paid towards DVD/Books, who specifically does that money go towards and can we have a transparent view of the accounts if the money ends up in some kind of organisation so that peoples concerns that the money may just be going into someones pockets can be put to rest.
(I do realise that monies maybe needed to pay for your own living costs/expenses/etc. but I believe it would be helpful to be fully open about these things so people are less worried about anything being a scam. (Being that there are plenty of other organisations, be they charities/etc. who just take your money, pay fat salaries and do little of importance with.)
What level of detail do they have on plans for buidlings and city layout, eg. rough artists impressions, rough architectual designs, full detailed schematics, etc.
If these exist, will they be made available freely so that others may use them in their own building/community design attempts.
I'm interested to hear about the history and lessons learn't in why progress in building a Fresco style world have yet to come about, even though I can imagine that many decades have been spent trying to achieve it. (As I want to build my own community in the UK, I wish to try and learn what lessons I can learn from others so I may benefit from their experiences and wisdoms.)
Does Fresco/etc. spend much time surfing the web or reading/taking part in any forums ? (I'm pleased to see effort now made to communicate between our two worlds so to speak, as again this is often an area of concern when you can't speak to the people at the top easily.)Quote
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
What are Jacques' musical tastes?Quote
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
Does Fresco or his wife have any helpful contacts in the United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales) that may be able to help aid us in building a community straight away. EG people who would be willing to donate free land money, resources, advice, or expert help at least? Builders, Architects, Engineers, who would be willing to donate time and expertise for free would be very helpful.
We have the big ideas, but we have no funding. When we do ask for help we don't usually get any reply. If you could open some doors it would really be helpful.
Many Thanks.
Page two Post 43516Quote
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
Are roxannes and jacques families involved in what they do?
Post 43522Quote
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
tsiegtiez wrote:
Are roxannes and jacques families involved in what they do?
That's an interesting question which I have been pondering about too.. I think Fresco has mentioned in one or two interviews that he had children.Quote
#43621--Timekeeper Moderator
I've sent them an e-mail asking tem this but I haven't got a response yet.
What do you think of the clear tendency for a lot of this movement's members to believe in conspiracy theories, such as the WTC towers being brought down by controlled demolitions and that the government is hiding alien technology?
What do you think of the skeptical community, which tries to promote rational thought and critical thinking through a scientific look at everyday claims.
And what do you think of the efforts of people like James Randi, who is known for his 1 million dollar prize for anyone who can prove anything paranormal or supernatural under experimental conditions and founder of the James Randi Educational Foundation and very famous for doing the sort of thing that Fresco says he once did with a psychic?
And what do you think of Sam Harris for warning about the dangers of religon and Richard Dawkins for promoting the point of view that there's no evidence for a god, and pointing out the strangeness of how societies have grown a sort of "Let's not comment on the irrationality of religious claims" attitude to religions?
Corboy asks---did anyone say anything
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 07, 2011 04:06AM
#46026
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
and...(Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years ago )
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
Quote
wow that is alot of questions. i will send them about 10 questions for now. continue with the questions, when they answer the first 10 i will send them more immediately.At the moment, money paid towards DVD/Books, who specifically does that money go towards and can we have a transparent view of the accounts if the money ends up in some kind of organisation so that peoples concerns that the money may just be going into someones pockets can be put to rest.What level of detail do they have on plans for buidlings and city layout, eg. rough artists impressions, rough architectual designs, full detailed schematics, etc.If these exist, will they be made available freely so that others may use them in their own building/community design attempts.Does Fresco/etc. spend much time surfing the web or reading/taking part in any forums ?
Quote
#51756
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
I would like to know what happened to the old TVP forum on the TVP site. There was a small group of people there supporting TVP (I was there for years and ran TVP film events) and then suddenly without warning the whole forum was pulled. I came back from holiday and it was gone! Why? Happened? Can we get an explanation?ui
Quote
#51756
Why Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows selling their property?
(page 5 of thread)Quote
#53474
They need money for their project in Ecuador.
and...(Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years ago )
Quote
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=99999&func=view&catid=3&id=42553&limit=10&limitstart=50
(By page 8 there was this) Post ##58295Quote
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years ago
Post ##58295
i had sent more questions the other day and roxanne replied
Ben I am sorry but we can't take these right a way. We are working on a new website and I am working on a lot of videos for it and also preparing for ZDAY. I will be back to you as soon as I can.
Roxanne
I will send her more questions when she replies. i don't really know when, i imagine they r quite busy.
Page 11 of thread
Post #65413Quote
so u guys know i don't think they will get to any questions until after zday. it's crunch time and they are extremely busy. roxanne told me they will answer more as soon as they have time. feel free to continue the questions, i just wanted u to know they might not be answered right awayQuote
Post 65779
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years ago
I have another question about Ecuador, if it's not too intrusive to ask, what part of Ecuador are Jacque and Roxanne considering moving to. If not a specific answer, how about the general location? I am fairly sure it wouldn't be the costal region.
.Quote
Post 76406
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 1 Year, 12 Months ago
1. How much did it cost and what materials were used in the building of their research center in Venus,Florida.
2. Did they need to get any permits to be able to construct the dome shaped home.
3. Will they be willing to share blueprints for any of Jacques' Concept homes.
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 07, 2011 04:43AM
Post #86070 page 14 of this thread. It is now 1 year and 11 months ago and here is the reply
So..by page 14 no answer yet to the question on page one
Post #81682
and post #130943
Finally after some persons had dialoged within the thread
Now page 20 of the thread
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Someone wrote in offering assistance and will be called 'A'
#186910
Okay, this is page 20 to 21 of the thread. I read all the way to the last page 23.
But there was not a response to the question asked 8 months earlier, and one Page one of this thread Questions for Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows.
Back at page one 2 years 1 Month ago 8 months earlier this person had asked this question--a question never responded to in this 23 page thread and one in which persons dialoging about other things were reminded that the thread was for questions to be directed to Jacque and Roxanne.
[/quote]
Quote
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the Answers 1 Year, 11 Months ago
they were very busy around zday but roxanne just emailed me and told me they will be answering questions again. so i sent her about ten more. i should get answers by tomorrow.
thanx
So..by page 14 no answer yet to the question on page one
Post #81682
Quote
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the Answers 1 Year, 11 Months agoQuote
Ztawiz wrote:
I think ive seen this question before but I just cant find it, plz redirect me if you know where it is.
Is it possible to visit The Venus Project? Im planning a trip to the USA this summer to visit a few places and I would really like to make TVP one of them. Ive always been fascinated by great visionarys and phylosophers who think "outside of the box" and Jacque Fresco is someone I really admire.
Yes, you can visit them but should make an appointment from what I understand. Also, they are planning to move some time in the future. So contact them and plan a visit, if they have the time.
tvp@thevenusproject.com
Senæesa Evoluado
Student in Canterbury, UK
Level 1 Poster
Posts: 136
thezeitgeistmovement.com/wiki/index.php/...en%C3%A6esa_Evoluado
and post #130943
Quote
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the Answers 1 Year, 9 Months ago
1. Many current sources cite that the most immediate need is for a full screen movie to be made. What is needed to get us to that point?
More specifically
How much will it take to kick it into gear and get it out of the idea stage?
How much is estimated as being needed after that?
Are there any individual producers (multimedia, writers, actors, etc.) or producing groups already committed to the project?
And please toss in anything else you think might enable us to get more involved in making this thing happen sooner than later.
(Corboy italics)
2. Many of us understand that Jacque has much more complete plans for many of the concepts he's incorporated into his vision of a Venus city design. We also fully understand that these are intentionally being kept out of the public eye for fear of someone unscrupulously coming along and copyrighting them as their own.
So, how much money would it take for the two of you to own the copyrights yourselves?
Armed with this info, we just might be able to chip in and make it happen (I have already seen at least one thread in the forums with positive feedback). It wouldn't take much from any one member if enough members choose to contribute and you would be in a much better position to share the concepts with the Design Team. This will allow them to finally get to work making prototypes and working out bugs. I would not view something like this as charity since the eventual results are for the betterment of ALL of us.
Much Love and Respect to you both!
Finally after some persons had dialoged within the thread
Quote
Post #157272 (by now we are at page 19 of the thread)
aRe:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the Answers 1 Year, 7 Months ago
Hi folks!
This thread is specifically for questions posed to Jacque and Roxanne.
If you want to have discussions about the questions that are posted, this is not the right place for that. Please feel free to start up a new thread and have phun with it.
Gman
Linguistic Team Caretaker
Moderator
Posts: 2351
Click here to help with Transcriptions, Proofreading or Translations
Now page 20 of the thread
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Someone wrote in offering assistance and will be called 'A'
Quote
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the Answers 1 Year, 5 Months agoQuote
A wrote:
Dear Jacques Fresco and Roxanne Meadows,
... I seek some guidance however in how I can make a significant contribution with the Venus Project over my lifetime, specifically with respect to (name omitted) transportation.
...
Who can I speak with to formulate action for such a plan? Which skills should I be developing to bring this dream forth? What experience should I seek?
I am currently debt free, and wish it to remain so. This grants me certain freedoms. How can I take advantage of this fact to put myself in a position now to benefit later? I have a year to play with before I resume my engineering degree, should I use it to find a job?
My biggest question and underlying curiosity is how can I make (name omitted) transportation a reality, and what should I be doing about it today to make a better future.
Best Regards,
A
A forum member replied:
Hi A and Welcome to the forums!
The ever growing popularity of the movement has significantly increased the hectic lives of Jacque & Roxanne. As a direct result, they have not been able to find the time to come here and answer questions found within this thread. I will soon be working to consolidate these responses we have been fortunate enough to get from them and present it in a more concise manner (perhaps within the site wiki).
On the other hand, Peter hosts a bi-weekly Blog Talk Radio address where he tries to keep everyone up to date on what's going on with the site (it's much more than just the forums), what he's been up to personally for the movement and he also answers member questions during these broadcasts. In an attempt to get around their time limitations, Peter now brings Jacque & Roxanne onto the second half of every other show (every 4 weeks) to answer questions and give us an idea of what they've been working on, too. If you're interested, you can find all of the previous shows archived at PJ's Blog Talk Radio site below. I highly recommend using this resource to help keep yourself up to date with the movement, as well as to get Peter , Jacque & Roxanne's views on the questions that are posed to them.
www.blogtalkradio.com/Peter-Joseph
So, to pose your question directly to J & R, your best bet is to post the question directly to the Q & A sticky we have for Peter's radio address. I will suggest that you specifically ask for Jacque's reply to it. Otherwise, Peter may think it's meant to invoke his opinion instead. You will find a direct link below.
www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/inde...id=232&id=172938
Once a show has begin, a new sticky thread is posted for use for the next show, meaning that this particular link will only be good from now until just before the next show comes up. So, you can always find the latest Q & A thread at the top of the forum section below. the thread will always use the title "Questions for Peter Joseph - Post Here [Part x]" where x is the number of the upcoming show. right now, it shows as Part 13.
www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/inde...howcat&catid=232
I should also mention that the show that was just broadcast this past Wednesday was wholly dedicated to another issue, so there was no time for Peter to get to any questions. This means that he will have quite a backlog of questions to go through in another week & a half and will very likely not get much further than half way through. The same might be said for questions being asked directly of J & R, but that remains to be seen. In other words, there is a chance that they may not have the time to get to your question the next time J & R are on the show. Then again, maybe they will. I'm just including this paragraph to help make you aware of the possibility and reason behind it if they are not able to get to the question right away.
If you have any questions, need help finding things around the site (it's really expansive) or just want to chat, feel free to PM me.
And again, welcome to the forums, A.
Gman
Linguistic Team Caretaker
Moderator
Posts: 2351
Click here to help with Transcriptions, Proofreading or Translations
If
#186910
Quote
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the Answ 1 Year, 5 Months ago
Hi guys Jacques and Roxanne will be doing a live interview on the uk site Monday at 2000 BST so please come and listen if you have questions for them
radio show
Okay, this is page 20 to 21 of the thread. I read all the way to the last page 23.
But there was not a response to the question asked 8 months earlier, and one Page one of this thread Questions for Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows.
Back at page one 2 years 1 Month ago 8 months earlier this person had asked this question--a question never responded to in this 23 page thread and one in which persons dialoging about other things were reminded that the thread was for questions to be directed to Jacque and Roxanne.
Quote
Post #42557
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Re:Q and A with Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows 2 Years, 1 Month ago
What is their current finanical status, eg. how much money in the bank, any loans/etc.
Are there any budget plans for building a new home or community when they move or is that rather dependant on the sale of their existing home ?
At the moment, money paid towards DVD/Books, who specifically does that money go towards and can we have a transparent view of the accounts if the money ends up in some kind of organisation so that peoples concerns that the money may just be going into someones pockets can be put to rest.
(I do realise that monies maybe needed to pay for your own living costs/expenses/etc. but I believe it would be helpful to be fully open about these things so people are less worried about anything being a scam. (Being that there are plenty of other organisations, be they charities/etc. who just take your money, pay fat salaries and do little of importance with.)
What level of detail do they have on plans for buidlings and city layout, eg. rough artists impressions, rough architectual designs, full detailed schematics, etc.
If these exist, will they be made available freely so that others may use them in their own building/community design attempts.
I'm interested to hear about the history and lessons learn't in why progress in building a Fresco style world have yet to come about, even though I can imagine that many decades have been spent trying to achieve it. (As I want to build my own community in the UK, I wish to try and learn what lessons I can learn from others so I may benefit from their experiences and wisdoms.)
Does Fresco/etc. spend much time surfing the web or reading/taking part in any forums ? (I'm pleased to see effort now made to communicate between our two worlds so to speak, as again this is often an area of concern when you can't speak to the people at the top easily.)
[/quote]
Re: The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM)
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 07, 2011 04:57AM
Whats ZM/VPs take on joining the armed forces in this less than ideal world?
Note: If you are a citizen of some nations, failing to register for the armed forces is against the law.
Two, showing Zeitgeist Addendum in a school on a naval base and omitting the part inw which you're advised to avoid military service is DECEPTION. LYING BY OMISSION
Here is a facebook citation
It does appear to be the case, per this Facebook citation
Here is something given in by a poster from the ZM thread--questions for Jacque and Roxanne.
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Full text here
Quote
Re:Questions For Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows and the Answ 1 Year, 11 Months ago
I am a new member and an mddle aged mom and student. Consider sending your kids to private Liberal Arts Colleges, such as Chapman University. This is where I first heard about and saw part of Zeitgeist Addendum. Some schools are still teaching people to think for themselves. As much as possible in the money-based economy we live in. I go to school on a naval base...the last part of the movie could not be shown because of this last statement largely:The Zeitgeist Addendum-Peter Joseph.Quote
"Whatever you do, do not let your friends, family or anyone you know..join the military!"
username
New Poster
Posts: 3
Last Edit: 2009/04/04 05:09 By username
Now, who decided 'the last part of the movie could not be shown' ?
How could the people in that room understand the actual content of that film if that vital part was omitted? Remember that audience was, according to the correspondant, at a naval base, which meant all or most of the students were from service families.
Note: If you are a citizen of some nations, failing to register for the armed forces is against the law.
Two, showing Zeitgeist Addendum in a school on a naval base and omitting the part inw which you're advised to avoid military service is DECEPTION. LYING BY OMISSION
Here is a facebook citation
It does appear to be the case, per this Facebook citation
Here is something given in by a poster from the ZM thread--questions for Jacque and Roxanne.
[www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Quote
3 - DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY.
Don't ever allow yourself and family or anyone you know to ever join the military. This is an obsolete institution, now used exclusively for maintaining an establishment that is no longer relevant. U.S. soldiers in Iraq work for U.S. corporations, not the people. Propaganda forces us to believe that war is a natural thing and the military is an honorable institution. If our military men and women are so honored, why is it that 25% of the American homeless population are veterans?
“.”Quote
It is essential to persuade the soldier that those he is being urged to massacre are bandits who do not deserve to live; before killing other good, decent fellows like himself, his gun would fall from his hands
~ Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)
Full text here
Quote
THE ZEITGEIST MOVEMENTCategory:Organizations - Advocacy OrganizationsDescription:In a world where 34,000 children die every single day from poverty and preventable diseases, one thing is clear: something is very wrong.Privacy Type:Open: All content is public.Contact Info
Website:[thezeitgeistmovement.comRecent] News
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1. Join this group and invite your friends.
2. Watch the movies (see below)
3. Join [thezeitgeistmovement.com], subscribe to the mailing list and don't hesitate to participate
4. Visit [www.thevenusproject.com]
The Zeitgeist Movement is a grass roots campaign to unify the world through a common ideology based on the fundamentals of life and nature. This movement ignores politics, religion and the like, and instead attempts to communicate how all humans are the same at the fundamental level and how it is time we start to work together on a global scale to end the seemingly perpetual conflict and suffering in our current world society.
It is the responsibility of our generation to build the foundations of a more peaceful and just world designed to lift all people to their highest potential, while giving tools to the generations to come to continue our work and make it better.
------------------------------------------------
►► HELP US SPREAD THE WORD
• Click the "SHARE" button at the bottom left of this group's webpage and share our group with your friends.
• Click the "Invite People to Join" link below the main picture on the left and select the friends you want to invite. Why not invite them all and give them a chance to discover The Zeitgeist Movement.
If we all take action, this movement will grow very quickly. Help us reach millions of people.
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►► NEWS
ZDAY 2010
March 13 - Worldwide
Details on ZDAY2010.ORG
***
RADIO SHOW
Peter Joseph's radio address will now occur on a weekly basis, every Wednesday at 3pm EDT.
Listen to it here: [www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
[www.blogtalkradio.com]
***
WHO IS PETER JOSEPH (Interview)
Part 1: [www.youtube.com]
Part 2: [www.youtube.com]
Part 3: [www.youtube.com]
Part 4: [www.youtube.com]
Part 5: [www.youtube.com]
Part 6: [www.youtube.com]
------------------------------------------------
►► ZEITGEIST THE MOVIES
• Zeitgeist, The Movie & Zeitgeist Addendum...
Watch online (free) at [zeitgeistmovie.com]
Note: Make sure you've watched Zeitgeist Addendum or you probably won't understand what's going on here
• The Zeitgeist Movement (join it) [thezeitgeistmovement.com]
• Zeitgeist Movement Forum [www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
• DVD & Free Download
[zeitgeistmovie.com]
• Activist and Orientation Guide (85 page PDF) [www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
• The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation [video.google.com]
Released in June 2007, "Zeitgeist, The Movie" focuses on suppressed historical & modern information about currently dominant social institutions, while also exploring what could be in store for humanity if the power structures at large continue their patterns of self-interest, corruption, and consolidation. This film was seen by well over 100 million people around the world.
In October 2008, "Zeitgeist Addendum" was released as a continuation of the first film, focusing on the core issues relevant to the subject of human corruption, while in turn offering a solution. This solution is not based on politics, morality, laws, or any other "establishment" notions of human affairs, but rather on a modern, non-superstitious based understanding of what we are and how we align with nature, to which we are a part. The work advocates a new social system which is updated to present day knowledge, highly influenced by the life long work of Jacque Fresco and The Venus Project.
Interview with Peter Joseph for this Facebook group: [www.facebook.com]
------------------------------------------------
►► THE VENUS PROJECT
• Website
[www.thevenusproject.com]
• Exclusive interview with Jacques Fresco and Roxanne Meadows:
[www.facebook.com]
• Petition
[www.thepetitionsite.com]
• On Facebook [www.facebook.com]
• Designing the Future (free 72 page pdf) [www.thevenusproject.com]
• On Youtube
[www.youtube.com]
The Venus Project, led by Jacques Fresco, has provided the tools and framework to make a new, humane society possible. He is not a leader. He is simply a thinker with a true humane intent. The Venus Project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. There are many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the Earth's ecosystems.
The Venus Project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. Through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, The Venus Project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium.
------------------------------------------------
►► RADIO UPDATES with PETER JOSEPH
• Weekly Radio Address with Peter Joseph [www.thezeitgeistmovement.com]
------------------------------------------------
►► LINKS | OTHER GREAT FILMS
• Official YouTube Channel of The Zeitgeist Movement
[www.youtube.com]
• Must See Documentaries & Movies [www.facebook.com]
• Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth [www.facebook.com]
• World for 9/11 Truth [world911truth.org]
• A Great collection of Links
[www.facebook.com]
------------------------------------------------
►► THE ZEITGEIST MOVEMENT
In the 1940's, The Manhattan Project produced the first true weapon of mass destruction. This program employed 130,000 people at an extreme financial cost. Imagine what our life would be like today if that group of scientists, instead of working on a way of killing people, worked on a way of creating a self-sustainable abundant world. Life on Earth would be very different if that was their goal. Instead of weapons of mass destruction, it is time to unleash something much more powerful: Weapons of Mass Creation.
Our true divinity is on our ability to create, and armed with the understanding of the symbiotic connections of life, while being guided by the emergent nature of reality, there is nothing we cannot do or accomplish. Of course, we face strong barriers in the form of established power structures that refuse to change.
At the heart of this structure is the monetary system.
The fractional reserve policy is a form of slavery through debt, where it is literally impossible for society to be free. In turn, free market capitalism in the form of the trade uses debt to imprison the world and manipulate countries into sub servants to a handful of large business and political powers.
Apart from these obvious immoralities, the system itself is based on competition, which immediately destroys the possibility of large-scale collaboration for the common good. Hence paralyzing any attempt to a true global sustainability. These financial and corporate structures are now obsolete and they must be outgrown. Of course, we cannot be naive enough to think that the business and financial leaders are going to subscribe with this idea, but they will lose power and control.
Therefore, peaceful yet strategic action must be taken. The most powerful course of action is simple: We have to alter our behavior to force the power structure to the will of the people. We must stop supporting the system. The only way the establishment will change is by our refusal to participate while continuously acknowledging the endless flaws and corruptions. People won't give up the monetary system because of our designs and what we recommend.
The system has to fail and people have to lose confidence in their elected leaders.
As of now, the world financial system is on the brink of collapse due to its own shortcomings. The controller of currency stated in 2003 that the interest on the U.S. national debt would not be affordable in less than 10 years. This theoretically means total bankruptcy for the U.S. economy, and its implications for the world are immense. In turn, the fractional reserve based monetary system is reaching its theoretical limits of expansion. And the banking failures you are seeing are just the beginning.
This is why inflation is skyrocketing, all debt is at record levels, and the government and the FED are emerging new money to bailout the corrupt system. For the only way to keep the banks going is by making more money. The only way to make more money is to create more debt and inflation. It is simply a matter of time before the tables turn and there is nobody willing to take new loans while the faults grow, as people are unable to afford their current loans. Then the expansion of money will stop and contraction will begin on a scale never before seen. Ending a century-long pyramid scheme. This has already begun. Therefore, we need to expose this financial failure for what it is using its weakness to our advantage. Here are some suggestions:
1 - EXPOSE THE BANKING FRAUD.
Citibank, JP Morgan Chase, and Bank of America are the most powerful controllers within the corrupted Federal Reserve System. It's time to boycott these institutions.
If you have a bank account or a credit card with any of them, move your money to another bank. If you have a mortgage, refinance with another bank. If you own their stock, sell it. If you work for them, quit. This gesture will express contempt for the true power behind the private banking cartel known as the Federal Reserve (FED) and create awareness about the fraud of the banking system itself.
“Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money.”
~ Sir Josiah Stamp - Director of the Bank of England 1928.
2 - TURN OFF THE TV NEWS.
Visit the emerging independent news agencies on the Internet for your information. CNN, NBC, ABC, FOX, and all the others present all News pre-filtered to maintain the status quo. With four corporations owning all major media outlets, objective information is impossible.
This is the true beauty of the Internet and the establishment has been losing control because of this free flow of information. We must protect the Internet at all times.
“The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) owns everyone of any significance in the major media.”
~ William E. Colby, Former director of the CIA
3 - DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY.
Don't ever allow yourself and family or anyone you know to ever join the military. This is an obsolete institution, now used exclusively for maintaining an establishment that is no longer relevant. U.S. soldiers in Iraq work for U.S. corporations, not the people. Propaganda forces us to believe that war is a natural thing and the military is an honorable institution. If our military men and women are so honored, why is it that 25% of the American homeless population are veterans?
“It is essential to persuade the soldier that those he is being urged to massacre are bandits who do not deserve to live; before killing other good, decent fellows like himself, his gun would fall from his hands.”
~ Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)
4 - STOP SUPPORTING THE ENERGY COMPANIES.
If you live in a detached house, get off the grid. Investigate every means in making your home self-sustainable with clean energy. Solar, wind and other renewable energy are now affordable consumer realities. And considering the never-ending rising costs of traditional energies, it will likely be a cheaper investment overtime.
If you drive, think about using public transportation more often. If you can't, get the smallest car you can and consider using one of the many conversion technologies that can enable your car to be a hybrid or electric or run on anything other than the establishment fuels. Also, buy local products as much as you can. Buy fresh local food. Local products don't have to travel half the world before ending in your home. Buy local products from local and small producers and stores. Not giant corporations like Wal-Mart.
“All peoples everywhere should have free energy sources.” [...] “Electric Power is everywhere present in unlimited quantities and can drive the world's machinery without the need for coal, oil or gas.”
~ Nikola Tesla (1856-1943)
“Nikola Tesla was not in this for the money. He wanted to give the world free energy. If we are to implement free energy in the tradition of Nikola Tesla, then we need to replicate not only his science but his humanity.”
~ Sterling D. Allan
5 - REJECT THE POLITICAL SYSTEM.
The illusion of democracy is an insult to our intelligence.
In a monetary system, there is no such thing as true democracy. And there never was. We have two political parties owned by the same set of corporate lobbyists. They are placed in positions by the corporations with popularity artificially projected by their media. In a system of inherent corruption, the change of personnel every couple of years has now very little relevance. Instead of thinking the political game has any true meaning, focus your energy on how to transcend this failed system.
“All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field.”
~ Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
6 - JOIN THE MOVEMENT.
Join [thezeitgeistmovement.com] and help us create the largest mass movement for social change the world has ever seen.
We must mobilize and educate everyone about the inherent corruption of our current world system, along with the only true, sustainable solution- declaring all the natural resources on the planet as common heritage to all people, while informing everyone as to the true state of technology and how we can all be free if the world works together, rather than fights. The choice lies with you. You can continue being a slave to the financial system, and watch the continuous wars, depressions and injustice across the globe, while placating yourself with vain entertainment and materialistic garbage… Or you can focus your energy on true meaningful, lasting holistic change, which actually has the realistic ability to support and free all humans, with no one left behind. But, in the end, the most relevant change must occur first inside of you. The real revolution is the Revolution of Consciousness and each one of us first needs to eliminate the divisionary, materialistic noise, we have been conditioned to think is true…while discovering, amplifying and aligning with the signal coming from our true, empirical oneness. It's up to you. THE REVOLUTION IS NOW.
"In this there is no teacher; no pupil…there is no leader. There is no guru. There is no master, no savior...You yourself are the teacher and the pupil; you are the master, you are the guru, you are the leader. You are everything! And… to understand is to transform what is."
~ Jiddu Krishnamurti, at the end of Zeitgeist Addendum
"We are not here to tell people what to think or believe; we are here to spread statistical information and socially positive value identifications in hopes of bringing people into the awareness of the incredibly positive possibilities the future can hold"
~ Peter Joseph (ZM London Lecture '09)
------------------------------------------------
►► IMPORTANT
We are not calling for a violent revolution. The real revolution is the revolution of our minds.
"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love."
~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
------------------------------------------------
►► SPAM / PERSONAL ATTACKS / DEFAMATION
In respect to our members and visitors, we will not tolerate nor endorse spam, personal attacks, or attacks against any group of people in this group. Thread hijackings, troll invasion or defamation are also not welcome.
Any post falling in these categories will be subject to immediate deletion/ban without notice. We certainly respect your personal opinions and we encourage you to share them as much as you want in a civil manner and in accordance to Facebook code of conduct (http://www.facebook.com/codeofconduct.php), which we have to respect as group administrators.
Special inquiries, suggestions or complains for this Facebook group should be sent to JF Ranger (see the admin list on the left).
Media requests and other requests regarding The Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project should be sent to the respective teams. You will find their contact info on the websites.
[thezeitgeistmovement.com] [thevenusproject.com]
------------------------------------------------
►► EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEWS
Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows - The Venus Project
[www.facebook.com]
Peter Joseph - Zeitgeist & Zeitgeist Addendum
[www.facebook.com]
------------------------------------------------
►► CITY GROUPS
For those of you who are unfamiliar with the official ZM site (thezeitgeistmovement.com), there is a section of the web site titled Community (http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_community&view=frontpage&Itemid=1909). Within the Community are groups. The groups can be created and run by anyone. Most of the groups are created for fellow Movement members to organize according to country/city/state. So, essentially, every city can have its own web page dedicated to the people of that city.
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►► INTERNATIONAL & U.S. CHAPTERS
For a complete list of international chapters and US state chapters, visit [thezeitgeistmovement.com]
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►► DO SOMETHING
Spreading the Zeitgeist Movement around is our main goal right now. We need your help to do it.
How you can contribute:
• Invite your friends: send invites to all your friends from the Facebook function "Invite People to Join" (in the menu under our logo). Help us make this movement go viral.
• On the web: link to this group on Facebook, on your blog, your website, in forums, on twitter, in your MSN status, etc... be creative and share your ideas.
• At large: Write to your local or national newspapers, radio stations, TV... Get the attention of public figures.
• In the streets: Give out flyers and DVDs. Build local groups and organize awareness campaigns in your area. Take it upon yourselves to spread the movement around. Organize screenings, presentations, etc.
• In your city: Join one of the chapters or start a new one.
• In your wallet: Spread the word... on your dollar bills:
[www.facebook.com]
• Be creative. Share your ideas. And most of all, do something.
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