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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship
Posted by: josey1234 ()
Date: September 27, 2010 06:08PM

The SRFWalrus and SRFBlacklist and most blogs against SRF have been taken down. Not by any threats from SRF but because these people either decided that it is best to not be printing negative material or that it was time for a truce.

It is good to move forward and not dwell in the past as I see it now. Even I have moved on after years of posting on those boards. Perhaps they had their purpose.

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship
Posted by: josey1234 ()
Date: September 27, 2010 06:22PM

Most of the Boards that are anti-srf have closed their doors. This has nothing to do with srf or threats. Yellowbeard closed his boards and went back to meditation, and i closed my boards and blogs and went back to meditation. then srfwalrus closed its boards, but i can only assume that it was because they grew tired of it and decided to get back to their life.

It really doesn't matter what sect you are in. If someone is putting down your religion you can be sure that someone will come and defend it; that is human nature. And I felt over my own years of blasting away at SRF that I just had a lot of resentment, and yes, I did have some concern over their treatment of members, much compassion, which is why I left. But it is best to move on with my life. I am now a Buddhist with a very fine teacher. People should always remember that it is the teachings that a person should stick with, and if something goes wrong within the religious community or if the teacher does wrong, work things out; if it can't be worked out, leave, but keep the teachings. There is nothing wrong with Yogananda's teachings; there is nothing wrong with staying. Most people there are content. The only thing I would tell people is this: If a religion causes you to fear leaving out of loyalty or fear of being lost for many lifetimes, then talk to others about this. Talk to other Hindu groups in this case. Because there should be no threats. Most gurus from many traditions do not put this fear in their disciples.

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship
Posted by: chessgames73 ()
Date: November 29, 2010 10:50PM

And then we can become the 'cult' of the 'anti-cult,' where everything outside of what is considered mainstream is a cult! This becomes a subtle way of slandering something merely because we don't like it, and/or disagree with what we think it is saying. If you go in with the attitude that all a 'true teacher' can do is point or give signposts, and that you must take the journey and validate or invalidate things for yourself, then it's hard to go wrong.

It's the seeker or student that creates or enables a cult, or even makes a cult out of something that is not (i.e., nothing can be inherently less cult-ish than the teachings of Krishnamurti, who insisted repeatedly that 'the speaker' was not an authority, or even important). A student or seeker might behave in a cult-like fashion with regard to a teaching that promotes the opposite! Here, again, this is why the validation of any such assertion is all important. Basically, K says that it is you who must become more aware, and within that awareness you will gain insight, and that that insight will guide thought, rather than thought trying to pass itself off as insight (which is really just a form of unseen or egoic pretense).

Also, the credibility of those whose religion is no religion must be suspect, meaning those who strongly believe there is no such thing as spirituality, and thus all organizations which represent it are cults or deluded. This is a prejudice in itself.

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 29, 2010 11:14PM

[culteducation.com]

Here is a very good way to tell whether a relationship or group fits the definition of abusive/cultic:

Whether there is 'a structure for airing and addressing conflict' and without fear of future consequences if one says something that is disliked by the leader or the leaders entourage.

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One term that can be used to describe such groups are “radicalized expressions of religious commitment,” Dinges said. Characteristics include having a distinct boundary between it and others; being demanding of members; being galvanized around a charismatic personality; and having an intensified sense of mission.

Like Miller, Dinges says determining whether such groups are dangerous is subjective. Among the factors to weigh is whether they make it emotionally impossible to leave, whether they maintain members’ dignity, the amount of freedom they give members and whether there is a structure for airing and addressing conflict.

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Sometimes that happens because a group engages in false recruitment activities, he said. Other times it’s because people jump into situations without thoroughly understanding them.

“You have to educate yourself and, in a sense, know yourself. Trust your intuition.”

Ron Enroth, a professor of sociology at Westmont College in California, says all the spiritually abusive groups he has studied share common characteristics. They’re so similar that when he talks to ex-members and starts hearing details of their stories, “I almost feel like saying, ‘Stop, let me tell you the rest of the story.’ ”

One feature of such groups, Enroth said, is control-oriented leadership. Communication with outsiders is limited and questioning isn’t allowed inside the group.

Sometimes the control extends into intimate areas of followers’ lives, he said. In such cases, members are expected to ask permission to take vacations or switch jobs. Lifestyle rigidity is also common, with some groups having an almost unfathomable list of rules. One he studied outlawed striped running shoes because they supposedly were connected to homosexuality, he said. Another forbid members to use the word “pregnant.” Instead they were commanded to say a woman was “with child.”

Such groups are also spiritual elitists, Enroth said. They use arrogant or high-minded terms to describe themselves and often have disparaging descriptions for other churches, he said.

“They present themselves as the model Christian church or the model Christian organization...and say they provide unparalleled fellowship and superior spirituality,” Enroth said.

In addition, such groups are usually paranoid and perceive any criticism as persecution, Enroth said. They paint people who leave as defectors and say attacks against them are ultimately the work of Satan.

“By describing criticism as slander, they can almost be shielded from criticism,” Enroth said.

Enroth believes the number of spiritually abusive groups is growing due to a spike in the number of independent churches in evangelical and fundamentalist circles. People like them because they are less formal and less hierarchical than traditional churches, he said.

But with that independence also comes the potential for trouble, he said.

“They are, in a sense, spiritual Lone Rangers,” Enroth said. “That’s where the potential for sliding off the cliff comes into play.”

Chessgames wrote

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It's the seeker or student that creates or enables a cult, or even makes a cult out of something that is not

This is classic blame the seeker/make excuses for the powerholder argumentation.

One, in many cases, a seeker is not told completely and up front what life in the group will actually be like or how difficult it may be to leave.

Many offer free workshops are classes and do not tell visitors up front that later on, after you join you will have to go short on sleep, get yelled at and be forbidden to reply, or that a leader will play favorites or change the rules in such a way as to keep people anxious.

Or that a group may be lying about its history, or that the leadership are keeping secrets about favoritism, how money is spent or mis-spent.

All too often the guru has 100% power zero accountability for how they use power and money, and if anything goes wrong, all blame is put, not on the powerholder who sets the tone of the group--but on the seeker, the underling.

Blame the seeker, excuse the abusive leader is the mantra. An entire cottage industry of making excuses for gurus and slurring seekers seems to exist. A guru may throw tantrums like a two year old and be excused.

A seeker who looks for justice will be accused of being infantile in having unrealistic expections.

Double standard.

Read the characteristics of a cult by Robert J Lifton. Note that these focus on what the group and its leader do, and the kind of social context and pressure that is created.

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: November 29, 2010 11:18PM

'It's the seeker or student that creates or enables a cult,'

You have, rather cleverly, avoided mentioning the responsibility of the leader, the teacher.

As leader or teacher--the one who presumes to know a little more---the brunt of the reponsibility for any organisation sliding into cult-dom must rest on the leader/teacher's shoulders.

Granted, a leader with no followers is hardly responsible for anything but himself and his own behaviour, but as soon as he presumes to teach he is implicitly responsible for the direction of his students and their orderly progress or lack of progress.

Directing people in a particular way and then blithely shrugging one's shoulders and absolving oneself of the results is a sure sign of a poor teacher.

Which poor teacher in particular are you making the case for?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2010 11:19PM by Stoic.

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship
Posted by: Stoic ()
Date: November 29, 2010 11:27PM

J Krishnamurti is a very poor example; he headed a large organisation which funded his very comfortable lifestyle as well as feeding his ego with veneration-- whilst at the same time he decried and deplored the dependence he was still fostering in his students.
What a wily old goat.
Talk about playing both sides against the middle--or is it eating your cake and yet somehow still keeping it whole and intact?

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Self-Realization Fellowship faked incorruptible body deception
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 29, 2010 11:39PM

Yogananda and SRF were/are full of many deceptions.
Paramahansa Yogananda was quite a dishonest person, as hard as it may be for those who want to believe in him.
He had an entire system to hook people into his Kriya Yoga, using state of the art techniques, his "course" by mail.

Did you know that SRF faked the alleged supernatural death of Yogananda? They claim in their books that his supernatural powers kept him from rotting as a corpse, as he decided to leave his body consciously, another lie by SRF.
In fact, Yogananda had been EMBALMED. [www.skepdic.com] [incorruptible body]

The average believer has not idea the level of lies and deception being done by the Guru du jour.

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: November 29, 2010 11:46PM

J Krishnamurti also had a mistress, got her pregnant and she had abortions so as to preserver JK's reputation.

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Both the older Rajagopals and Krishnamurti had grown up in the hot-house atmosphere of the Theosophical Society and it's ideas about the new world messiah that Krishnamurti was to be. Rajagopal himself was a boy protegé of Leadbeater and was the "reincarnation" of St Bernard of Clairveaux, he was a brilliant student and at the insistence of the Theosphical hierarchy took over the role of Krishnamurti's factotum after Krishnamurti's younger brother, Nitya, after Nitya's death in 1925.

The Rajagopal's sexual relationship ended after the Radha's birth at his request, the reasons for this are never gone into, understandably enough this is not a topic a child usually wants to investigate. Krishnamurti and Rosalind began a secret, sexual relationship in the spring of 1932 at his instigation and this continued until the 1950's when it petered out in a welter of long-term recrimination over Rosalind's suspicions about Krishnamurti's infatuation for Nandini Mehta and their general growing-apart and aging.

Rosalind Rajagopal was a very warm and compassionate person who's information and veracity on this subject could not be questioned. She was held in high esteem by most who came in contact with Krishnamurti. She was so liked by the Huxley's that she was present at the death of Aldous Huxley.

between the public portrayal of Krishnamurti as the idealised, enlightened, chaste being and his all too human pettinesses. For most of us in the 1990's his long term monogamous, sexual relationship with the woman whom he was acknowledged as closest to, would not be considered particularly negative, indeed many would consider it, at worst, morally neutral. The secrecy of the relationship could even be rationalised as a bow to the conventional societal/sexual hypocrisy of the times - a harmless deception to prevent scandal preventing people appreciating the purity of the teaching.

But not many would be able to accept the three secret, illegal (and therefore dangerous) abortions that Rosalind had of three children of Krishnamurti and the lies, recriminations and emotional trauma that all of the protagonists endured in the 1950's. It will be extremely difficult for anybody interested in Krishnamurti's teachings to see them as coming from an authentic source who has transcended any of the worst of the human condition and without the "authentification" of Krishnamurti's supposed enlightenment and the romantic glamour of his idealised portrayal, they are just another set of utopian concepts.

Willie Weidemann was the brother-in-law of Rosalind Rajagopal and manager of the farm and orange orchard at which Krishnamurti lived.

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"Although he was at the core of all our lives, Willie never had any interest in the philosophical side of life around Krinsh. He helped in all the financial and practical matters, the mailing lists, the books, even sitting behind the table to sell the publications at the talks.

"He told me once many years later, after he had retired, that the reason he had no interest in what Krinsh had to say was because he had witnessed early on the discrepancy between what Krinsh said and what he did.

"Willie never commented on this to anyone as he did not consider it his business but quietly made up his mind that he would find his own path, as he always had - and indeed as Krinsh himself publicly recommended."




[www.prem-rawat-bio.org]

[www.google.com]

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship faked incorruptible body deception
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 29, 2010 11:58PM

[www.skepdic.com] "Mahasamadhi, according to Hinduism, is a god-illumined master's conscious exit from the body at the time of physical death."

Yogananda's followers claim also that he left his body consciously, with a heart attack!
If his birth dates are not also forged, he was only 59 when he died.

The entire thing is a fraud, from top to bottom. Maybe his followers are deluded, but why is their story about his death so organized? Obviously, to keep the SRF going so they could run it.

Yogananda died young, of a heart attack. He was quite obese.
His followers then lied, to try and make his death supernatural.
They are STILL LYING about it.

SRF is a very large organization.

Swami Kriyananda and Daya Mata, his long-term followers, were the two main people to perpetrated this fraud. Guess who benefited from it? Daya Mata is still running SRF.

Swami Kriyananda (J. Donald Walters) appears to be the guy who SRF would attack in their books years ago, as "stealing" Yoganandas' name.

Same old BS fighting over control of the organization, and its assets, money, and the rest of it.

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Re: Self-Realization Fellowship faked incorruptible body deception
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: November 30, 2010 12:03AM

(wikipedia is biased but this is interesting)

[en.wikipedia.org]
"Swami Kriyananda was forced out of Self-Realization Fellowship (SRF) in 1962 and started Ananda in 1968. Being successful, he became a rival: Self-Realization Fellowship spent twelve years (1990–2002) and million of dollars suing Kriyananda and Ananda over various copyright and trademark issues. SRF, among other charges, claimed exclusive and sole right (trademark and service mark) to the name "Paramahansa Yogananda" and all images of Yogananda, and the term "Self-realization". Many Hindu, yoga, and meditation groups filed papers supporting Ananda.[22]

SRF lost nearly every issue in court, including: their claim to own the trademark to the name "Paramahansa Yogananda"; their claim to sole publicity rights to "Paramahansa Yogananda"; their attempted trademark on the term "Self-realization", which the court ruled is a generic religious term used for hundreds of years; their claim that Ananda was trying to "pass itself off" as SRF; their claim that Yogananda's writings were "work for hire" done as an employee of SRF, and done as part of the SRF "corporate body", as opposed to Yogananda writing them himself; their claim to own copyrights on certain photos of Yogananda; their claim that Ananda violated SRF's copyrights to magazine articles written by Yogananda (the court ruled that Ananda's use of the articles was "fair use"). "

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