Byron Katie's twitter post:
Quote:
"Forgiveness is discovering that what you thought happened, didn’t. You realize that there was never anything to forgive."

What Byron Katie said about "forgiveness" is not only hypocritical, as obviously she does not practice what she preaches. For example, Byron Katie will PULL DOWN any profile of any of her own people if they do anything she doesn't like, on her whim.
[forum.culteducation.com]
So even a 10 year old child can see Byron Katie is saying one thing, and doing the opposite.
Pulling down a profile, means that person is blocked from all referrals, and thus starves. She is "firing" that person on the spot, no notice, no reason, no nothing. Its just raw power..


But more than that, what she says about "forgiveness" is very unhealthy. Its the typical Byron Katie solipsist nonsense.
There are such a thing as objective FACTS. Things happen. So those facts will always exist.

Byron Katie deliberately mixes modifying an INTERPRETATION of an event, to them going overboard and saying it never happened. That is called installing a DELUSION.
This is why people like BK can just make stuff up, and fabricate whatever they feel like.
This connects with her use of the very dangerous NLP Change Personal History technique. Its all connected to her larger program of literally disconnecting people from reality.[forum.culteducation.com]
CHANGE PERSONAL HISTORY [forum.culteducation.com]

(warning: this technique can be very damaging) Search Google for:

NLP Change Personal History


In healthy forgiveness, you always remember the factual and objective details of what happened, as accurately as possible. And then, with the help of thoughtful reflection, and perhaps some licensed counselling, a person may let go some of the painful feelings connected to those events.

But of course, that is useless to Byron Katie, in her disconnecting people from reality itself. So instead, she tries to get people to DENY that reality even happened, thus installing a DELUSION.
And of course, none of this applies to Big Momma Katie, who is allowed to hold a grudge, and chew your ass out in public, passive aggressively, and fire you on the spot from time to time, to keep you in line.
Please, a child could see through many of her techniques.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2009 04:04AM by The Anticult.

Quote
The Anticult

But more than that, what she says about "forgiveness" is very unhealthy. Its the typical Byron Katie solipsist nonsense.
There are such a thing as objective FACTS. Things happen. So those facts will always exist.

Of course there are such things as objective FACTS. But the great insight of post-modern philosophy and literary-criticism is that *people* don't experience the same FACTS in the same ways. They tell different stories about the same FACT.

It turns out that that point actually matters...pick any fact, and what we bring to it from our prior experiences will inform how we interpret it. All BK is doing, as far as I can tell, is having people examine their stories about those facts and seeing if the stories are true or not. And it's pretty clear that a lot of times, the stories we tell ourselves about the facts just aren't true. That's not solipsist, it's just common sense.

And of course, on top of all of this, everything gets turned upside down and backwards to confuse people.
So when a person is passive-aggressively attacked, then that is flipped around into saying it is being done out of "Love".
So they will give you a kick in the butt as they are throwing you out the door, all the while carrying out more superficial fake Love-Bombing, to make them appear holier than thou.
This kind of stuff is not that complex, its on the level of...

Do as I say, and not as I do.

Kids figure that one out when they are about 7 years old.


And if one wants to see some real REALITY, then simply read the complex contracts you are forced to sign. That is reality.
[forum.culteducation.com] THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY

And your financial payments, that is also real.
[forum.culteducation.com] Cost of becoming a Certified Facilitator of The Work of Byron Katie:



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2009 04:34AM by The Anticult.

TarSpiel:

You seem to be arguing against the existence of objective reality.

Regardless of subjective feelings there is such a thing as objective and that's also "common sense."

When cults or cult-like groups hurt people that is an objective reality.

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rrmoderator
TarSpiel:

You seem to be arguing against the existence of objective reality.

Regardless of subjective feelings there is such a thing as objective and that's also "common sense."

When cults or cult-like groups hurt people that is an objective reality.

Hi rr...I don't think I'd say that I'm arguing against the existence of objective reality (I don't think things are all only various forms of solipsism). But I do think it's true that each of us *experiences* that objective reality in our own unique ways.

There's an example from a youtube clip I watched recently, BK doing the work with a guy with dyslexia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvKLGKvDLzM). The objective reality is that the dude has dyslexia. Regarding that objective reality, he believes that he is a victim of his condition, he is angry, and he feels stupid. But the objective fact that he has dyslexia is neither good nor bad. Evolutionarily speaking, dyslexia must have some kind of survival value for our species, since it occurs with some regularity, and since reading and writing are extraordinarily recent developments. But the dude feels like a moron cause he can't read or write. BK and the work point out to him that he doesn't really need to learn to read and write (which he has tried to do - and failed at - his whole life). The sense of relief and release on the guys comments is palpable, and he goes away with a totally new and liberated point of view on his "disability".

It doesn't mean that objective reality (in this case, dyslexia) doesn't exist. It just means that the stories we tell ourselves about that reality are not always reliable, and oftentimes they're counterproductive.

Again, the last thing I want to do is to shill for BK. I don't know about how she makes money, or what she does with it, or if she's a bitch to people, or whatever. I really don't know much about those things, and at this point I'd be willing to concede them. It does seem to me, though, that the actual work itself can produce some profound and positive results.

TarSpiel:

"...each of us *experiences* that objective reality in our own unique ways"?

There you go again.

This thread is a discussion of how Byron Katie may hurt and/or mislead people.

You admit that you "really don't know much about those things..."

OK.

Keep in mind that this thread really is not about religious philosophy.

Believe whatever you want.

The point is how people behave (i.e. Byron Katie) in the name of those beliefs and how that my hurt people.

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TarSpiel

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N. Owis
Does anyone know more about BK giving non-judgemental acceptance to an active criminal pedophile?

I personally would consider this sort of thing to move in the "drama queen" direction. Pursue it out, and you have to end up believing that BK's deep agenda is to promote pedophilia (and then things like alcoholism, suicide, divorce, etc etc). I don't get that feeling from her *at all*. (...) I can't really see anything wrong with her approach...and certainly not to the degree that she's promoting something like pedophilia.

I agree. The train of thought you think up, for the sake of argument I suppose, certainly moves in the “drama queen” direction. If you carefully read what’s being said however, the situation here is that: although Byron Katie is not promoting something like pedophilia, she does know an active pedophile who says he is currently abusing and committing terrible sexual crimes against his own daughter, and yet, on the pretext of ‘loving what is’ (OMG!), she doesn’t do anything to help and save the child from years of abuse.

Quote
TarSpiel

Quote
rrmoderator
TarSpiel:

You seem to be arguing against the existence of objective reality.

Regardless of subjective feelings there is such a thing as objective and that's also "common sense."

When cults or cult-like groups hurt people that is an objective reality.

Hi rr...I don't think I'd say that I'm arguing against the existence of objective reality (I don't think things are all only various forms of solipsism). But I do think it's true that each of us *experiences* that objective reality in our own unique ways.

There's an example from a youtube clip I watched recently, BK doing the work with a guy with dyslexia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvKLGKvDLzM). The objective reality is that the dude has dyslexia. Regarding that objective reality, he believes that he is a victim of his condition, he is angry, and he feels stupid. But the objective fact that he has dyslexia is neither good nor bad. Evolutionarily speaking, dyslexia must have some kind of survival value for our species, since it occurs with some regularity, and since reading and writing are extraordinarily recent developments. But the dude feels like a moron cause he can't read or write. BK and the work point out to him that he doesn't really need to learn to read and write (which he has tried to do - and failed at - his whole life). The sense of relief and release on the guys comments is palpable, and he goes away with a totally new and liberated point of view on his "disability".

It doesn't mean that objective reality (in this case, dyslexia) doesn't exist. It just means that the stories we tell ourselves about that reality are not always reliable, and oftentimes they're counterproductive.

Again, the last thing I want to do is to shill for BK. I don't know about how she makes money, or what she does with it, or if she's a bitch to people, or whatever. I really don't know much about those things, and at this point I'd be willing to concede them. It does seem to me, though, that the actual work itself can produce some profound and positive results.

TarSpiel: You say you don't want to shill for BK, yet you highly promote her and post a link to one of her videos.

It sounds a bit like: 'Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater'. But you see, the 'baby' has nothing to do with Byron Katie. She re-wrote and (mis)interpreted borrowed concepts and techniques, calling them her own and claiming copyright.

You say that you don't know how she makes money, or if she is a bitch to people, yet you are quick to criticize those who say something about BK condoning a pedophile. I know where the reference to pedophile comes from. BK does something in her workshops, where she will have people write down the thing they are most ashamed of, and then encourages people to stand up in front of large audiences to read what they have written. If someone were to stand there and confess to being a pedophile, BK would highly praise his courage and emphasize how healing this is, trying to spur on others to do the same.

Perhaps you could backtrack and read a bit more of this thread to find out how she makes her money, what she does with it and how she treats people, in particular those who contradict her, or her staff. Or perhaps you could read some of the various linked-to weblogs in this thread, that relay first hand experiences of people who were not so happy with BK or the work.

A word about the BK YouTube clips: yes, I have watched several, and I have also seen people who walk away seemingly relieved or even happy. But don't forget that all these clips have been taped in front of large audiences. The clients in the clips are mostly people who came to a BK event because they have already invested in the work, because they really want it to work, or because they believe every word that BK says. So most of them simply can't afford to not feel relieved, a lot of these people can't afford that this method doesn't work, or they don't want to fail in front of a large audience. Isn't it interesting that people hardly contradict anything she says, even when she redicules them? Could it be that she has already instilled in them the possibility that she represents a 'higher power' or at least a 'higher mother'? Haven't you noticed in those same clips that every client is eager to please Byron Katie? And of course they want to please her, they all want to be loved by Mama Katie, they all want to hear her say 'Good... Good'.

All we get to see on YouTube are the clips were people walk away happy. What about the ones where they don't? Or do you think they don't excist? All we get to read on her weblog is the raving fan-mail and the success stories, what about the rest? Or do you think she doesn't get those? We were never told about someone who committed suicide right after attending a school with Katie, or about the person who went home and shot her sister. We are never informed about the people who are being committed to hospitals during the schools, or the ones who are asked to leave pre-maturely because they can't be handled.

When someone sits to do the work with BK, there is no question of objective reality, because she has pre-colored the whole thing with her attitude, with her tone of voice, with her way of speaking, with ridiculing people and with love bombing. Most people that go up there, are already very susceptable to her hypnotism techniques, and are no match for her.

Its important to remember that this thread has hosted probably several dozen shills for Byron Katie, and a few internet posters who have nothing better to do, that to deliberately try to get a rise out of people.

The poster above says, BK is simply having people examine their "stories" about "facts" that happened.
That is false.
That actually shows that either this new poster knows very very little about what Byron Katie is actually doing, or is being dishonest on purpose, or is just trying to make confusion for self-entertainment.

Byron Katie's entire program, is not about just modifying interpretation of events.
Eventually as people get further down the rabbit hole, its about literally saying that those events DID NOT HAPPEN, on some type of "spiritual level". That has been covered in detail in the thread.

This may be another reincarnation of the internet sock-puppet situation that happened a while back.

The tone sounds basically very similar to the Kassy/Anatta/skepticalrepublican sock-puppetry.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Kassy's hobby [forum.culteducation.com]