Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and telling secrets.
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: April 14, 2009 09:06PM
This is a great find. I think it should be copied into the "participant reports" thread, if it's not in there already. (I'll check and put it in there if it's not there yet.)Quote
The Anticult
Another BK supporter, asked many of her BK associates what happened at the BK School seminar, NONE of them would tell her. How sick is that, for one BK supporter, to not tell another BK supporter, what goes on in the seminars? Its almost like a type of sandbagging of your own friends, or setting them up. She had to find out from a recent post.
The irony is that those who are opposing and speaking out against the methods of Byron Katie, are WAY better friends to Byron Katies supporters, than Byron Katie is!! That's the truth.
[authentictimes.blogspot.com]
QUOTE: "The experience I have had with those who have gone to the (Byron Katie) school is a sense of secrecy... and I never knew why. If it is joyous, share it with the world, right? They seem to have a "I know what you do not" energy about them. My thoughts have been, "It's only 4 questions. It's not hard to understand, what am I missing?"
Rick Ross' [forum.culteducation.com] sharing of the school made me feel sad. Maybe that is what I was missing... what had happened to these people while at the school. Cult, fraternity or abusive family; or whatever you call it... anything that asks you to keep secrets for any reason, is going to create separatism with others and suffering in your spirit."
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and the Certified Facilitator
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: April 14, 2009 10:17PM
I noticed that as well. Eerily similar. I had to stop reading her because I didn't want BK-speak to be swirling through my mind.Quote
The Anticult
if anyone wants to see an example of almost completely patterned BK thought, check this one out.
She posted under the posting name Jennifer Ironstone [familyrun.ning.com]
Here's an example of a "certified facilitator" mimicking Byron Katie:
Celeste Gabriele: "I love that you would ask you for the Truth. And I love that we could do The Work together. I do The Work daily, and the result—loving what is—continues to be my way of living. I love hearing the stories of your life. I see them as mine. Together we can inquire into these stories, love our thoughts, and live a wonderful life."
[[url=http://www.celestegabriele.com/]Celeste Gabriele - Certified Facilitator of the Work of Byron Katie[/url]]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2009 10:18PM by helpme2times.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and the Certified Facilitator
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 14, 2009 11:30PM
That pre-patterned thinking and speaking reminds of the old LGAT days...everyone starts spouting the same JARGON.
Why don't the BK folks ever say...
"I love what those geniuses are doing on the RickRoss forum. I love how they are the first people to have explained the Truth of exactly how Byron Katie mindwashes most everybody at her LGAT seminars. I love that they -explain what is- happening to people's minds and identities. I love hearing the facts that contradict the stories by Byron Katie, I wish the media would do some research for once. Together lets inquire into these fake stories and outright lies, love reality and fact-checking, and not get screwed again by the next anti-guru with hypnotic eyes."
But seriously, is very creepy and disturbing how BK has been able to design this system, which can almost completely colonize certain people's entire minds and life. Its not an accident.
Its designed, planned out, executed, refined, and constantly tweaked. There is a small group of people at the top of the BK inner circle who know what is being done, and exactly how its being done. Those are the people who reinforce it in their own writings.
But it is driven by BK, as she was doing it back before her earlier books Losing The Moon, and a Cry in the Desert.
Its very complex to do something like this, and make it work on people.
Why don't the BK folks ever say...
"I love what those geniuses are doing on the RickRoss forum. I love how they are the first people to have explained the Truth of exactly how Byron Katie mindwashes most everybody at her LGAT seminars. I love that they -explain what is- happening to people's minds and identities. I love hearing the facts that contradict the stories by Byron Katie, I wish the media would do some research for once. Together lets inquire into these fake stories and outright lies, love reality and fact-checking, and not get screwed again by the next anti-guru with hypnotic eyes."
But seriously, is very creepy and disturbing how BK has been able to design this system, which can almost completely colonize certain people's entire minds and life. Its not an accident.
Its designed, planned out, executed, refined, and constantly tweaked. There is a small group of people at the top of the BK inner circle who know what is being done, and exactly how its being done. Those are the people who reinforce it in their own writings.
But it is driven by BK, as she was doing it back before her earlier books Losing The Moon, and a Cry in the Desert.
Its very complex to do something like this, and make it work on people.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Thought Control and plagiarism?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 15, 2009 12:05AM
Those few checkable facts would be enough for them to shut their forum down, in case someone in the media saw it.
It could be exactly like the Neale Donald Walsch plagiarism and literary fraud expose' in the NYT. [www.nytimes.com]
(Anyone with information could contact that same writer with the NYT, Motoko Rich [topics.nytimes.com] and point out the exact similarities between the books, which could lead to another article.)
After all, Neale Donald Walsch very recently was doing some Love-Bomb blog advertising for Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell. Long before Neale Donald Walsch was exposed by the NYT, he was exposed in this thread!
[forum.culteducation.com]
So they are trying to cover their tracks, like with the book burnings, and Disappear some insider facts that could be objectively checked into.
The Tao book being copied can be checked.
The dates of their Valentine story, and divorces can be checked.
The timing of the cockroach appearance can be checked.
Anyone able to say generally what Carol Skolnick was saying about how Grace Unfolding seemed to be copied by Stephen Mitchell?
If someone is aware of how that book was copied, feel free to post that info here, and/or contact that NYT writer Motoko Rich, with the specifics. [topics.nytimes.com] . Maybe Stephen Mitchell has a few book skeletons in the closet too?
It could be exactly like the Neale Donald Walsch plagiarism and literary fraud expose' in the NYT. [www.nytimes.com]
(Anyone with information could contact that same writer with the NYT, Motoko Rich [topics.nytimes.com] and point out the exact similarities between the books, which could lead to another article.)
After all, Neale Donald Walsch very recently was doing some Love-Bomb blog advertising for Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell. Long before Neale Donald Walsch was exposed by the NYT, he was exposed in this thread!
[forum.culteducation.com]
So they are trying to cover their tracks, like with the book burnings, and Disappear some insider facts that could be objectively checked into.
The Tao book being copied can be checked.
The dates of their Valentine story, and divorces can be checked.
The timing of the cockroach appearance can be checked.
Anyone able to say generally what Carol Skolnick was saying about how Grace Unfolding seemed to be copied by Stephen Mitchell?
If someone is aware of how that book was copied, feel free to post that info here, and/or contact that NYT writer Motoko Rich, with the specifics. [topics.nytimes.com] . Maybe Stephen Mitchell has a few book skeletons in the closet too?
Quote
CruzQuote
The Anticult
by the way, there appears to have some dissent in the now closed Open Forum at the Institute For The Work website?
[www.instituteforthework.com]
Questions about the cockroach story, questions about the books being copied from other books, etc.
So they closed the Open Forum. Bye bye freedom of thought, and open discussion.
An interesting bit of information came up, regarding Byron Katie’s no longer Open Forum. As we know, the very last post on the Forum was by Carol Skolnick, on April 6th. It was about BK and Stephen Mitchell having copied their ‘Tao’-book from ‘Grace Unfolding’ by Greg Johanson and Ronald Kurtz. As it turns out, the penultimate entry to the Forum seems to have been a piece on Stephen Mitchell’s true Valentine’s Story being adulterous in spirit. However romantic and serene the story is being portrayed now, truth is that both Katie and Stephen were in actual fact two-timing when they first hooked up. Byron Katie has a long history of rewriting her books. It will be interesting to see whether her ‘Katie-ism’ “I’m a lover of the truth” will be included in forthcoming editions.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 15, 2009 12:48AM
(quote)Quote:
The Anticult
Another BK supporter, asked many of her BK associates what happened at the BK School seminar, NONE of them would tell her. How sick is that, for one BK supporter, to not tell another BK supporter, what goes on in the seminars? Its almost like a type of sandbagging of your own friends, or setting them up. She had to find out from a recent post.
The irony is that those who are opposing and speaking out against the methods of Byron Katie, are WAY better friends to Byron Katies supporters, than Byron Katie is!! That's the truth.
[authentictimes.blogspot.com]
QUOTE: "The experience I have had with those who have gone to the (Byron Katie) school is a sense of secrecy... and I never knew why. If it is joyous, share it with the world, right?(unquote)
Then Janaki wrote in Chapter 41
(quote)This story may indicate that there is a gap between the Katie personality in front of an audience and the woman Katie in private. Perhaps I am telling tales out of school, but Katie addresses every audience as ‘my family’, and she says she has no secrets.(unquote)
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
If Janaki correctly quotes BK as having said she had no secrets, why the secrecy about the content of the School program thats been described by the correspondant quoted by TAC?
Final note:
On another thread, Mr Ross refers to another leader of a cotroversial group. Rick commented, "Apparently, X has decided to create his own media. He doesn't like what he cannot control"
What makes BKSM so interesting to examine is that this is a set up that has gone a very long way to not only creating its own media network, but utilizes existing media and cyber networks--and social networks as well--12 step meetings where BK devotees violate 12 step principes by using the 12 step world as a venue to market something that unlike 12 step, doenst fully disclose its history.
\.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 12:56AM by corboy.
The Anticult
Another BK supporter, asked many of her BK associates what happened at the BK School seminar, NONE of them would tell her. How sick is that, for one BK supporter, to not tell another BK supporter, what goes on in the seminars? Its almost like a type of sandbagging of your own friends, or setting them up. She had to find out from a recent post.
The irony is that those who are opposing and speaking out against the methods of Byron Katie, are WAY better friends to Byron Katies supporters, than Byron Katie is!! That's the truth.
[authentictimes.blogspot.com]
QUOTE: "The experience I have had with those who have gone to the (Byron Katie) school is a sense of secrecy... and I never knew why. If it is joyous, share it with the world, right?(unquote)
Then Janaki wrote in Chapter 41
(quote)This story may indicate that there is a gap between the Katie personality in front of an audience and the woman Katie in private. Perhaps I am telling tales out of school, but Katie addresses every audience as ‘my family’, and she says she has no secrets.(unquote)
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
If Janaki correctly quotes BK as having said she had no secrets, why the secrecy about the content of the School program thats been described by the correspondant quoted by TAC?
Final note:
On another thread, Mr Ross refers to another leader of a cotroversial group. Rick commented, "Apparently, X has decided to create his own media. He doesn't like what he cannot control"
What makes BKSM so interesting to examine is that this is a set up that has gone a very long way to not only creating its own media network, but utilizes existing media and cyber networks--and social networks as well--12 step meetings where BK devotees violate 12 step principes by using the 12 step world as a venue to market something that unlike 12 step, doenst fully disclose its history.
\.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 12:56AM by corboy.
Byron Katie (the Work) and the Facilitator Jennifer Ironstone
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 15, 2009 01:16AM
not going to dig too deep into this one, but people have a right to know what's going on. This is not the Girlscouts, people's lives and minds are being completely repatterned and often wrecked for years to come.
A posting name, Jennifer Ironstone, is defending the Byron Katie LGAT seminar at the link below, and is literally saying that BK is not a guru.
Even as far back as 2006, she was literally mentally prostrating herself at Byron Katie's feet, and had the phrase down to a concise new core belief.
QUOTE: "Katie - In Gratitude, I bow at your feet."
Bowing and submitting at the feet of a chieftain, queen, guru, is one of the deepest impulses in a human. Total surrender and submission.
Many mammals/primates do this, watch how dogs in the park behave when they approach an Alpha dog. This is a function of the primate Dominance Hierarchy in the great apes, and its a very ancient and primal behavior in the human primate, going back literally hundreds of thousands of years into prehistory, to pre-human ancestors.
Why are people falling to their knees, and bowing at the feet of Byron Katie?
Why is this happening with people? Magic?
No, its being engineered into their psyches, using the techniques explained in this thread.
Total Surrender, giving everything, lifelong membership, complete submission.
Sadly, people caught up in it, think its some type of "spiritual force" acting on them. But its literally being engineered into them, using the techniques described. Sadly, its not that hard to do this to people, as submission is hardwired, and can be easily transferred from other eastern Guru experiences.
Talk about idolatry, Byron Katie putting her own photo on an altar in her house, people gazing at BK photos daily, people on their knees before Byron Katie crying in parking lots, people bowing and kissing the feet of the Master...
These types of impulses should NEVER be directed at any human being. Its one thing to pray to one's "God" but when those impulses are transfered to a human, then you get serious abuses and problems, as that power imbalance corrupts everyone involved.
[www.byronkatie.com]
QUOTE:
"Katie - In Gratitude, I bow at your feet."
Posted by Jennifer Ironstone | November 12, 2006 1:46 PM
A posting name, Jennifer Ironstone, is defending the Byron Katie LGAT seminar at the link below, and is literally saying that BK is not a guru.
Even as far back as 2006, she was literally mentally prostrating herself at Byron Katie's feet, and had the phrase down to a concise new core belief.
QUOTE: "Katie - In Gratitude, I bow at your feet."
Bowing and submitting at the feet of a chieftain, queen, guru, is one of the deepest impulses in a human. Total surrender and submission.
Many mammals/primates do this, watch how dogs in the park behave when they approach an Alpha dog. This is a function of the primate Dominance Hierarchy in the great apes, and its a very ancient and primal behavior in the human primate, going back literally hundreds of thousands of years into prehistory, to pre-human ancestors.
Why are people falling to their knees, and bowing at the feet of Byron Katie?
Why is this happening with people? Magic?
No, its being engineered into their psyches, using the techniques explained in this thread.
Total Surrender, giving everything, lifelong membership, complete submission.
Sadly, people caught up in it, think its some type of "spiritual force" acting on them. But its literally being engineered into them, using the techniques described. Sadly, its not that hard to do this to people, as submission is hardwired, and can be easily transferred from other eastern Guru experiences.
Talk about idolatry, Byron Katie putting her own photo on an altar in her house, people gazing at BK photos daily, people on their knees before Byron Katie crying in parking lots, people bowing and kissing the feet of the Master...
These types of impulses should NEVER be directed at any human being. Its one thing to pray to one's "God" but when those impulses are transfered to a human, then you get serious abuses and problems, as that power imbalance corrupts everyone involved.
[www.byronkatie.com]
QUOTE:
"Katie - In Gratitude, I bow at your feet."
Posted by Jennifer Ironstone | November 12, 2006 1:46 PM
Quote
helpme2timesI noticed that as well. Eerily similar. I had to stop reading her because I didn't want BK-speak to be swirling through my mind.Quote
The Anticult
if anyone wants to see an example of almost completely patterned BK thought, check this one out.
She posted under the posting name Jennifer Ironstone [familyrun.ning.com]
Here's an example of a "certified facilitator" mimicking Byron Katie:
Celeste Gabriele: "I love that you would ask you for the Truth. And I love that we could do The Work together. I do The Work daily, and the result—loving what is—continues to be my way of living. I love hearing the stories of your life. I see them as mine. Together we can inquire into these stories, love our thoughts, and live a wonderful life."
[[url=http://www.celestegabriele.com/]Celeste Gabriele - Certified Facilitator of the Work of Byron Katie[/url]]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and counteracting negativity
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: April 15, 2009 05:16AM
a couple more ideas, on ways to counteract the negativity of getting out of the BK system.
IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life [forum.culteducation.com]
It would probably be healthiest, to balance things out by doing more positive, healthy recovery oriented activities....
IDEAS on how to KICK-OUT byron katie from your Mind-Soul-Life [forum.culteducation.com]
It would probably be healthiest, to balance things out by doing more positive, healthy recovery oriented activities....
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Jay Cruise
()
Date: April 15, 2009 06:46AM
Recently on youtube someone posted a Byron Katie video titled "Living in Scare-City": [www.youtube.com]
Katie expands on her ideas about victims, nazis, identity and altruism and shows what a truly alternate universe BK followers live in.
Firstly her nazi quote:
"So a Jewish (?) camp full of Nazis and they want me to clean up the garbage. I am free. I do not have to do it. I'm free. They can torture me and I still don't have to do it. I'm free! If I want to live I might clean up the garbage. But who makes the decision? Who made the decision to clean up the garbage? And then I blame them for making me do it! I made me a victim in that moment. I'm not about right or wrong here I'm into reality."
With that in mind I'll go back to her victim quote. Only the victim victimizes themselves by their own actions, hence the true definition of victim is false. It begs the question: what is her definition of violence? :
"Victims are the only violent people, and I have never met a victim... a true victim. I've met people who believe their thoughts and are very confused. But other than that."
---
Responding to a question by another participant Katie then asks the old question: "When you are asleep at night and not dreaming, do you exist?"
With this zen riddle she is trying to get the participant to see that the identity or sense of 'I' doesn't exsist or is merely an illusion created by the mind.
---
Finally one brave soul in the audience challenges her, first by saying that her philosophy is a "twentieth century rehash of the whole buddhist line" and asks how an enlightened and affluent work participant can help those living in third world conditions. The full answer is cut short but she interjects that it is his opinion that these people need food and clean water.
Katie expands on her ideas about victims, nazis, identity and altruism and shows what a truly alternate universe BK followers live in.
Firstly her nazi quote:
"So a Jewish (?) camp full of Nazis and they want me to clean up the garbage. I am free. I do not have to do it. I'm free. They can torture me and I still don't have to do it. I'm free! If I want to live I might clean up the garbage. But who makes the decision? Who made the decision to clean up the garbage? And then I blame them for making me do it! I made me a victim in that moment. I'm not about right or wrong here I'm into reality."
With that in mind I'll go back to her victim quote. Only the victim victimizes themselves by their own actions, hence the true definition of victim is false. It begs the question: what is her definition of violence? :
"Victims are the only violent people, and I have never met a victim... a true victim. I've met people who believe their thoughts and are very confused. But other than that."
---
Responding to a question by another participant Katie then asks the old question: "When you are asleep at night and not dreaming, do you exist?"
With this zen riddle she is trying to get the participant to see that the identity or sense of 'I' doesn't exsist or is merely an illusion created by the mind.
---
Finally one brave soul in the audience challenges her, first by saying that her philosophy is a "twentieth century rehash of the whole buddhist line" and asks how an enlightened and affluent work participant can help those living in third world conditions. The full answer is cut short but she interjects that it is his opinion that these people need food and clean water.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: April 15, 2009 08:05AM
Katie is scary-looking to me at the beginning of the youtube video posted above. So prisoners are free to make the 'choice' between doing what they are told or being executed.
This sounds like a 'bounded choice' to me to say the least. It's the way I used to feel in my cult when I was told that I could 'do or die' ... to live and work for God according to their rules and standards ... or leave the cult and risk spiritual or even physical death (through accident, illness etc.) Although obviously not to the same horrific level as a concentration camp prisoner!
I was always being told by the group leader that I was freely choosing to continue 'serving God' and so I should be 'very happy'. In fact I was probably close to clinically depressed for about five of the ten years I was with them.
So maybe this whole Nazi camp prisoner thing is also another kind of teaching story? It 'pre-frames' for people involved to feel that they are always 'at choice' and should therefore be happy in their servitude to Byron Katie ... just the way a concentration camp victim should be happy and content in their captivity.
Browsing around the BK forum I found something else that sounded familar to things I heard in the good old cult days of my life:
"There is no such thing as sacrifice. Why is this true? What happens to your life when you believe that you are making a sacrifice? When you turn the belief around, it's same life, only without the illusion of sacrifice. Make that awareness a part of your everyday awareness of life as you actually live it: life as service, without any sacrifice."
Life in service to a cult leader was pretty miserable ... but I was never permitted, even in my private thoughts to call it a 'sacrifice'. Even though I was 'voluntarily' celibate and living in the group house basement. Even though I was cleaning dishes, making coffee at work and taking out the garbage. Heh heh ... It was supposed to be a privilege and joy that filled my life with meaning and purpose.
'Voluntary' was the key word in my servitude. I volunteered, so it was not a sacrifice. Ha! Turning the notion of 'sacrifice' on its head like that seems to be a really handy tactic for any cult leader.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 08:13AM by solea13.
This sounds like a 'bounded choice' to me to say the least. It's the way I used to feel in my cult when I was told that I could 'do or die' ... to live and work for God according to their rules and standards ... or leave the cult and risk spiritual or even physical death (through accident, illness etc.) Although obviously not to the same horrific level as a concentration camp prisoner!
I was always being told by the group leader that I was freely choosing to continue 'serving God' and so I should be 'very happy'. In fact I was probably close to clinically depressed for about five of the ten years I was with them.
So maybe this whole Nazi camp prisoner thing is also another kind of teaching story? It 'pre-frames' for people involved to feel that they are always 'at choice' and should therefore be happy in their servitude to Byron Katie ... just the way a concentration camp victim should be happy and content in their captivity.
Browsing around the BK forum I found something else that sounded familar to things I heard in the good old cult days of my life:
"There is no such thing as sacrifice. Why is this true? What happens to your life when you believe that you are making a sacrifice? When you turn the belief around, it's same life, only without the illusion of sacrifice. Make that awareness a part of your everyday awareness of life as you actually live it: life as service, without any sacrifice."
Life in service to a cult leader was pretty miserable ... but I was never permitted, even in my private thoughts to call it a 'sacrifice'. Even though I was 'voluntarily' celibate and living in the group house basement. Even though I was cleaning dishes, making coffee at work and taking out the garbage. Heh heh ... It was supposed to be a privilege and joy that filled my life with meaning and purpose.
'Voluntary' was the key word in my servitude. I volunteered, so it was not a sacrifice. Ha! Turning the notion of 'sacrifice' on its head like that seems to be a really handy tactic for any cult leader.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 08:13AM by solea13.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and thought control
Posted by:
windofchanges
()
Date: April 15, 2009 09:36AM
Quote
The Anticult
Judy,
here is the link to RELEASE OF LIABILITY, THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE
[forum.culteducation.com]
and of course the Participant Reports [forum.culteducation.com]
Everyone should carefully study a printed copy of these releases in well in advance. Even before a mere "discussion" about The Work, as that will serve as an enrollment and sales platform.
There are disclaimers about injuries, and death.
Participants can be videotaped, and then those videos can be sold for profit, FOREVER, in perpetuity.
Notice how the release is not posted anywhere for people to read?
the Work Questions, are NOT a neutral process, they are directive and lead people into the Byron Katie system.
Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell, make Tubby and Moe from Gentle Wind Project, look like small potatoes...very dangerous for vulnerable people, they are looking for total, lifelong commitment.
Thanks, Anticult. I have sent the link to the "release form" to my contact from the conference center that's hosting the "women's retreat," with a request that it be distributed to registrants so that they have the opportunity for fair disclosure. I had previously sent links to the "participant reports" and this thread.
Judy
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