FOR RRMODERATOR ...
Firstly thanks for your previous post ... very interesting.
xxxYou mention the Salvation Army. Good example. I have never
xxxreceived a single complaint about the Salvation Army.
Ah, but are you aware that during the initial years of themovement General Booth was vilified as a cult leader, and the SA widely refered to as a cult. Press was largely negative about the group, etc. Ok, you may not get complaints now, but what if they had just started up ... the 'modern' thing to do would be to contact yourself with concerns I feel ...
xxxNo complaints about "Methodists, Calvinists, Presbyterians" either.
Once again I feel you missed my point. My point was that all the groups I quoted had 'evolved' to a greater or lesser degree. It was during their early years, for large amounts of their founders lives, that they were seen as dangerous cult like groups ... and their members were vilified.
xxxI continue to receive very serious complaints from families and former
xxxfollowers of the McKay group. For such a small group to generate such
xxxserious complaints is quite significant.
This is a fair point ...
xxxJesus Army remains a controversial group.
Yes, but again if you look at the contextof my post, I stated that teh JA were in a relatively unevolved state still. But slowly they seem to be achieving 'some degree' of acceptance from the community at large.
see [
en.wikipedia.org]
xxxThere is nothing "Christ-like" about McKay's behavior. McKay's behavior
xxxover the years reflects a man that runs a group to fulfill his own needs
xxxand desires, for attention, control and power.
Now, I can only give an outsiders opinion, but there do appear to be similarities between the teachings of Jesus and Dave's approach to life... 1 poverty 2 fasting 3 preaching 4 a good beard (thats a joke) 4 simple clothing 5 assembling a band of dedicated followers 6 standing against the religious authorities ... and I could probably go on
xxxPosing in his religious guise McKay also has managed to avoid
xxxgetting a real job and seemingly satisfied his frustrated ambition
xxxof become a successful writer.
This part sounded a little personal. Have you had 'personal' dealings with Dave which could be clouding your judgement? Just a question ... Also not having a real job, I see thsi as being very unfair indeed. He has obviously dedicated 20 plus years to preaching and distributing literature. we can discuss his motives and his material, and disagree on our conclusions, but he does seem like an 'active' man, a man who acts out his beliefs ...
xxxOf course Jesus once said that many would come in his name, but he
xxxwould not know them. And the New Testament warns about wolves in sheep's clothing.
xxxThese portions of the New Testament would seem to apply directly to
xxxDave McKay. His leadership style also seems to follow the pattern admonished
xxxby Paul in Galatians, when he warned the church about controlling leaders and
xxxthe negative consequences of submitting to them.
Once again this sounds a little personal ... Dave being the afortold 'super apostles' of Pauls letters??
xxxCan the JCs evolve into a healthy group? Perhaps. But this would occur
xxxafter Dave McKay is gone.
Not sure about this. Lots of issues here ... who decides what is a 'healthy' group? Surely a group that becomes established often idealises the original leader ... for good or for bad ...
xxxHowever, personality-driven groups like the JCs usually disintegrate
xxxafter the death of the leader.
Thats your area of expertese. Will check this out.
All in all a great post and thought provoking. Thanks.
Best wishes, EE